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savored responsibly. Welcome

1:30

to True

1:33

Crime Garage. Wherever

1:35

you are, whatever

1:37

you're doing, thanks for

1:40

listening. I'm

1:47

your host Nick and sitting directly across

1:49

from me is a man wearing a

1:51

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1:53

germs, here is the captain. That's because

1:55

I'm one styling and profiling son of

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a bitch. It's good to be seen

1:59

in- Good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks

2:02

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we are still chilling with this

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2:41

from Bardstown, Kentucky. Next up here's

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a cheers to full throttle ink

2:46

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but certainly not least we have

2:50

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2:52

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2:54

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thank you very much. Yeah. B W

3:01

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we'll see you there. That's enough of

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the business. All right, everybody gather round,

3:21

grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's

3:23

talk some true crime. It's

3:26

been over 16 years gone by

3:28

since the disappearance

3:31

of 24 year old

3:33

Kyle Fleishman. He

3:57

went missing Friday morning, November,

4:00

And the last time that we have

4:02

confirmation that Kyle is alive and well

4:04

is when he is seen on security

4:07

Camera TV outside of the Buckhead

4:09

Saloon in uptown Charlotte. He's leaving.

4:11

He appears to be leaving This

4:14

is at 220 a.m.

4:17

And we now know that he left his debit

4:19

card and Jacket behind

4:21

at the bar as

4:23

we said in part one This

4:26

is when all of the mysterious

4:28

stuff everything in question Starts

4:31

to take place right at this 220 a.m.

4:34

Mark one thing we did discuss in

4:36

part one is this

4:39

verbal what I've

4:41

seen described as a mild

4:45

verbal altercation between

4:48

Kyle while he's at the bar and

4:51

A male or two or possibly

4:54

three that were not

4:56

happy with him dancing with a female

4:59

Briefly at the bar what

5:01

we do know about those persons

5:04

and we said that we believe

5:06

that is for people That

5:09

were all involved in this mild

5:11

verbal altercation as it's described We

5:14

believe it's for people because there is

5:16

a report out there that says that

5:18

police have interviewed those

5:20

four people and We

5:23

don't know the details of What

5:26

went on that night between them?

5:30

We don't know the details of the

5:32

questions that police asked

5:35

these individuals But

5:37

the report is that they've been interviewed

5:40

and they don't seem to be persons of

5:43

great interest to law enforcement Regarding

5:46

Kyle's disappearance, but

5:48

what I will say here captain is Preach

5:52

I can't say that they had anything to do

5:54

with what happened to Kyle His

5:56

family says they believe he was murdered

5:59

his friends they believe

6:01

that he was killed that night, that

6:03

somebody is responsible for killing him. They

6:06

know much more about this case than we

6:08

know and if that's what they are willing

6:10

to tell the public, that

6:13

seems to me unfortunate as

6:15

it is the most likely

6:17

possibility. So now we

6:19

have to, if we're going to

6:21

go down that road and we're going to believe

6:23

his family and his friends and

6:25

his dad, his dad is very vocal about

6:28

this. He says, look I

6:31

wish that the Charlotte

6:33

Mecklenburg Police Department

6:35

would be more forthcoming with information

6:37

to me. Their response is

6:39

when we get something new we do inform the

6:42

family so maybe it's as simple as they've not

6:44

gotten anything new. But his

6:47

dad says they've not shared a lot

6:49

of information with us. He's not

6:51

convinced that they took this thing very seriously

6:53

for the first couple of weeks. We

6:56

do know that the family took

6:58

it seriously right from Jump Street

7:00

because they hire a private investigator,

7:02

they get canine search dogs involved,

7:04

they have volunteers that are searching

7:06

for Kyle, volunteers handing out missing

7:08

persons, flyers right out the

7:10

gate. A lot

7:12

of this stuff the family had to pay for,

7:15

they paid for a lot of this out of their

7:18

own pocket so they jump into action right away. Dad

7:21

says, tells the media several times

7:23

they've not been very forthcoming. It

7:26

does appear that there has been

7:28

a good amount of

7:30

work behind the scenes on Kyle's case

7:32

by the police department but

7:34

one thing his dad says is at some point

7:37

it was homicide investigators that were

7:39

investigating Kyle's case. So his dad

7:42

says something made it go from

7:44

a missing persons investigation

7:46

to a homicide investigation.

7:49

It makes no sense to me why

7:51

law enforcement wouldn't explain that better to

7:53

the family. Yes, yes and

7:56

again we could sit here

7:58

and spin our tires all day. day and night

8:00

on why that has been what

8:02

it is. But we just don't know. Like, unfortunately,

8:05

like the family, we don't know that. Now,

8:07

for me, I want to go down that road.

8:09

As ununfortunate as it is, I want to go

8:12

down that road because to be honest with you,

8:14

Captain, when I first started looking into this, I'm

8:16

like, this is one of

8:18

those weird scenarios where this young man

8:21

may have just been freezing

8:23

his ass off. He's drunk, he's tired.

8:26

Look, it happens. People crawl into a

8:28

place and decide to take a nap or

8:31

crawl into a place hoping to get

8:33

warm and succumb to

8:35

the elements. I really

8:37

thought that's what we were probably looking at

8:39

here. I couldn't move past

8:42

the idea that he had left his jacket there

8:44

and I'm seeing reports that it would have been

8:46

30, 32 degrees at that time. Yeah,

8:50

my problem with that theory though is

8:52

it's not a rural area and

8:54

so there'd be plenty of places where he could

8:58

go into, right? Right,

9:00

there was, one place of concern was there was a

9:06

heavy construction project

9:08

going on in an area that

9:11

was in walking

9:14

distance to where he was last seen. So

9:16

there's been some concern that, you know, did

9:19

he expire there and nobody is

9:22

responsible for his death and somehow

9:24

he got lost in the construction?

9:29

Yeah, didn't they have cadaver

9:31

dogs go to that site? Yeah,

9:33

so they had search and rescue

9:35

dogs that were brought

9:37

in, again, they were brought in by the family

9:40

and they took them to this area.

9:43

Those dogs also went to a nearby

9:45

park. What I'm saying

9:47

to you and everybody else out there

9:49

in listener land, it was only after

9:52

hearing the family and friends and then

9:54

police as well say, we

9:56

don't think he had any reason to walk away. Reading

9:59

their words. listening to their

10:01

words, dad, uncle,

10:04

best friend, very

10:07

quickly convinced me if they're all

10:09

saying murder, that's

10:11

what it's got to be. So

10:13

that's where I'm at now with

10:16

looking at this case. And if going

10:19

down that road, it seems to me like

10:21

we only have a few, a handful

10:24

of possibilities that something

10:26

happened, something directly

10:29

related to one of these locations has everything

10:31

to do with his murder. Could be the

10:33

bar. We know he was there. Could be

10:36

fuel pizza. A lot of people have a

10:40

lot of speculation and suspicions

10:42

about fuel pizza. There

10:45

was the park that we mentioned with

10:47

the search and rescue dogs. Can we

10:49

dive more into the speculation on the

10:51

pizza shop? I mean,

10:53

what, what would the motive

10:55

be? Well, so what

10:58

is also a little

11:00

bit fascinating about this case is

11:04

if you're going to say that

11:06

it was somebody that he may have had

11:08

some brief interaction with or a random person

11:12

that attempted to do something to Kyle and it

11:14

ends in murder. The

11:16

interesting part to me is the timeframe

11:18

that we're talking about here, because

11:22

what do we know that's happening all at

11:24

the same time, right around the same time

11:26

that Kyle is last seen at 2 20

11:28

AM? We know

11:30

that all of those bars are closing. The

11:33

pizza shop is closing at two 30. So right

11:36

at two 30, what you have then

11:38

going on in those streets at the

11:40

time when this kid goes missing is

11:43

you have the streets are filled with people

11:46

that were either in those establishments as patrons

11:49

or we're working in

11:51

those establishments all leaving and

11:53

moving about in this area all at the

11:55

same time between 2 20

11:57

AM and 4 AM when his phone. no

12:01

longer is working or on or

12:03

what have you. So the speculation

12:05

with the fuel pizza, Kyle's family

12:07

says look we we don't know

12:09

how much weight

12:12

the investigators, law enforcement

12:14

investigators put into looking at

12:17

this pizza place and the

12:19

surrounding businesses of

12:21

that Buckhead Saloon. Of course police

12:23

investigators are not, may not

12:25

be of the type to tell them

12:27

but we

12:30

do know that their private investigator says

12:32

that that's where I would have started.

12:35

I would have I would have you

12:37

canvassed the area you go there and

12:39

you check with all the surrounding businesses.

12:41

Well now you find out that he

12:43

may have gone into this pizza place

12:45

he may have ordered some pizza. According

12:47

to one employee he did. Yeah and

12:49

that's backed up because the order seems

12:51

like something Kyle would have ordered at

12:53

least to Kyle's father. Correct. Private investigator

12:56

runs background checks on the individuals that

12:58

were working there that night as

13:00

well as persons that they he

13:03

says associates of but I'm guessing he

13:05

would have had to have known the

13:08

associates and what would be the easiest

13:10

thing to know them by is anybody

13:12

that has a long-term relationship be it

13:14

a roommate, a girlfriend, boyfriend, somebody

13:17

that is easy to determine from an

13:19

outsider that this is an

13:21

associate of this person. So

13:24

he runs background checks on a lot

13:26

of these individuals and what he

13:28

is seeing is some of them

13:30

have police records. Some

13:33

of them have have violence

13:35

a history of violence, weapons

13:38

charges, assaults, things

13:40

of that nature. And

13:42

so one piece of speculation regarding

13:46

fuel pizza is did

13:49

somebody from the pizza shop that night

13:52

see an opportunity? Kyle's

13:55

inebriated maybe he's got

13:57

some cash on him he looks he's looks

13:59

like Like a young professional. Did

14:02

they see an opportunity to rob him or

14:05

take things off of him? I

14:08

was looking to see, you know, was he the type

14:10

to wear jewelry? It doesn't appear that he was. You

14:12

know, some people wear

14:14

expensive watches and what have you. To

14:17

me, if somebody said, what

14:20

does Kyle look like? I'd say, you

14:22

know, Andy Dwyer from Parks and Rec.

14:24

That's funny. I was thinking

14:27

Andy Dwyer as well. And

14:30

the thin version of Andy Dwyer,

14:33

not the chubby, lovable

14:37

Andy Dwyer. One of the

14:39

things that the private investigator figured out as

14:41

well is that one, at least

14:43

one or more of the individuals that worked

14:45

to fuel pizza lived in

14:48

the direction of where the dogs took

14:50

them. Well, that's fishy fish sticks. When

14:52

the dogs were, we have to guess

14:54

that they were following Kyle's

14:57

scent. Again, they can't

14:59

talk, so that complicates things. Yeah,

15:01

it always surprises me that the

15:03

police use nonverbal dogs instead of

15:05

verbal dogs. He says that he

15:08

finds that to be very interesting

15:10

and there have been individuals that

15:12

have interviewed some of these people

15:15

and don't think that some of these

15:17

guys are on the up and up.

15:19

The father, his father said something that

15:22

I found rather intriguing. Kyle's

15:24

father, Dick says, look, a

15:26

couple of these guys, they're repeat offenders,

15:29

they have a rap sheet. But

15:32

after my son goes missing, all of a sudden,

15:35

they're not such bad guys. They don't get in

15:37

trouble for anything. He said that somebody

15:40

explained to him that that doesn't seem

15:42

to fit their pattern of their behavior

15:44

for their life and their lifestyle. So

15:47

what great thing changed for

15:50

them to change who they are, or

15:52

at least how they operate and live

15:54

their lives? Yeah, seems like we're grasping

15:56

at straws. What we do know too,

15:58

Captain, is... is, this is from

16:00

law enforcement. Now we don't know who the

16:03

individual is, but

16:06

it looks like at some point a

16:08

homicide investigator traveled to talk

16:10

to somebody

16:15

that is somehow connected to fuel

16:17

pizza that at the time of the

16:21

interview was living in prison and

16:24

interviewed that individual about Kyle

16:26

being missing.

16:29

That seems like to me, if

16:31

that detective traveled, look,

16:34

these departments, they, they, they run on a

16:36

budget just like

16:38

every other business out there. They

16:41

don't have a lot of these departments

16:43

do not have money to burn. So

16:45

if it costs labor

16:47

hours and travel expenses for

16:49

this homicide detective, some reports

16:51

say two homicide detectives to go to a prison, to

16:53

travel out of the area and go to a prison

16:55

and interview this person. There must have been, you got

16:58

approved to the boss. Look, there's, there's

17:01

enough meat on the bone here that we need to talk to that.

17:05

We need to sit down and officially interview this individual.

17:09

You have to justify the cost and the hours

17:11

spent to do so.

17:13

There had to be something there. This,

17:15

to me, that seems like a good idea. You

17:17

go knock on a door with a hunch. You

17:20

get permission from the boss to travel and use the

17:22

department's money to interview somebody

17:25

that you can't just go and knock on their door. Okay. Answer me

17:27

this real me this Batman, we

17:32

have footage of him in the bar. We

17:35

have him, we have

17:37

footage of him heading to the pizza shop.

17:40

Do we have footage of him

17:43

in the bar? Heading to the pizza shop. Do

17:46

we have footage of him inside the

17:48

pizza shop? And do we

17:50

have footage of him leaving the pizza shop? Well,

17:52

that's the thing that we have

17:54

footage of him walking in the direction of

17:56

the pizza shop. The

17:58

problem then becomes. investigator

26:00

hired by the family

26:02

that, and I don't

26:05

know if that report is meant to

26:07

say that the private

26:09

investigator believes, or

26:11

it is fact that

26:14

Kyle called the Buckhead saloon after

26:16

he had left the Buckhead saloon. Now,

26:18

what I can say is the private

26:21

investigator would know, right? They have the

26:23

call records. So

26:26

under that part, here's

26:28

how this theory goes, that

26:31

Kyle did call the Buckhead saloon

26:34

after leaving, which

26:36

would stand to make some sense seeing how

26:39

he discovered that he, this would be after,

26:41

if he stopped at the

26:43

pizza place, this is after that. So like

26:45

you pointed out, this is when he's like,

26:47

Oh, realizing I left my debit

26:49

card. Oh, I

26:51

probably left my, Oh, I did leave my jacket too. I'm

26:53

going to give him a quick call because

26:55

I'm going to head back there and pick

26:58

up my stuff. It's around closing time. The

27:00

reason why your story plays here is there

27:02

are some people that believe that there's a

27:04

chance that he made it back to that

27:06

bar and that

27:08

something went down. Now it could

27:11

he have bumped into some people that he got

27:13

into an altercation with before that we do

27:15

know about or some people that he gave

27:18

a nasty look to before earlier that

27:21

night that we don't know about along

27:23

the way. That's a possibility. Could he

27:25

have showed up at the bar, banged

27:27

on the door and demanded to come

27:29

in and get his belongings and they,

27:31

they turned him away and something happened

27:33

there. There are people online that have,

27:35

have stated that they've

27:38

been at that bar and something goes

27:40

down between them and a bouncer or

27:42

two. And

27:44

I don't want to get into the

27:46

details of those because I don't know, I don't know

27:48

who these people are that are reporting this online and

27:50

if, if their stories are true, but

27:54

in its simplest form, the way that these people

27:56

have reported this is, you

27:58

know, I, I damn near got

28:00

knocked on. conscious by a bouncer

28:02

there. And when

28:04

I called the police, all of a sudden

28:07

the person that beat me up

28:09

is no longer there. And

28:11

the other bouncers are, yeah, we don't know who that

28:13

was. Right? Turning,

28:15

turning it from a situation where here's a

28:17

person that we know is responsible for assaulting

28:20

me, but the other bouncers can have his

28:22

back and say, yeah, that was some random

28:24

guy that was in here earlier. And he

28:26

took off after he beat up this poor

28:29

guy. And also my problem with this is

28:31

we have him on footage

28:34

at the bar, on footage,

28:36

leaving the bar. Why don't we have

28:38

some footage of him going back to

28:40

the bar? Because I'm assuming he would

28:42

have went back the same way

28:44

he came. Ever

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gives the So

48:01

we said all that I've been honking for

48:03

too long here, Captain honk honk honk.

48:05

We've gone round and round with a

48:07

lot of speculation. As we said at the

48:09

very start of, of

48:12

episode one of this case, that everything's

48:14

in question. Our mystery starts

48:16

at two 20 AM. Do

48:20

you have anything that garage

48:22

task force gut check? Do you have anything

48:24

that you think, what do you think happened

48:27

that night? I don't know if law enforcement

48:29

did their due diligence, but

48:31

at some point they started investigating this

48:33

as a homicide and not a missing

48:36

person case. So to

48:38

me, that's pointing us

48:40

into the direction that Kyle's

48:43

not coming home, but

48:46

what happened, I couldn't tell you. And

48:49

it's hard to dismiss

48:51

the fact that he had this confrontation. I'd

48:55

like to know the whereabouts of these individuals. Were

48:57

they able to track these individuals? And

49:02

again, then we have all these rumors about the pizza shop.

49:04

And then right around the corner is this construction site.

49:10

And I think when you have so many rumors, you know, where

49:12

there's smoke, there's fire. So

49:16

some kind of homicide, but I don't

49:18

think the motive is clear. This

49:21

is, this is just

49:23

a difficult case. To me, it seems

49:25

like the most likely thing is that

49:27

he just ran into the wrong person

49:29

that night and they're just somebody that

49:31

has no fucks to

49:33

give. Well,

49:36

and I'm, I'm right there with you. I think that

49:38

that's probably what happened. I

49:41

have to go with what the family is telling us.

49:43

They are beliefs are that he was killed and his

49:45

dad is right there. And

49:49

his dad is right in saying

49:52

that, look, at some point, the

49:54

homicide squad is investigating my son's case.

49:58

And I think that. whatever happened

50:00

to him, there's, there is high

50:03

potential that the person did

50:05

not intend to kill him, but

50:07

without having more information and

50:10

not being able to locate Kyle, it's

50:13

too difficult to say. But

50:15

I, I feel like unless there's

50:18

some very random situation where he gets

50:21

into a a

50:23

taxi cab and it's,

50:25

it's captain psychopath driving the vehicle and

50:27

all of a sudden he's, he's frightened

50:30

out of his mind and, and randomly

50:32

hitting buttons on his phone or

50:35

some guys pull them into a car and start moving

50:37

him. I really think that the, whatever

50:40

happened to him involves one of the

50:42

locations that we talked about at

50:45

length in these two episodes, the

50:47

bar, the pizza place, the park,

50:50

or that construction site. It's

50:53

there's just too much that

50:55

keeps taking us back to those

50:58

different locations. Well, I, I agree with you.

51:00

I think it's somebody, well, I'm going to

51:02

be a tough guy. I'm going

51:04

to be a bully. I'm

51:06

going to beat this guy up. Here's

51:08

it. Here's an easy victim. I don't think somebody

51:10

just saw this random person and just went that

51:13

guy, I'm going to kill

51:15

him. Kyle is listed on

51:17

NamUs. He is missing person

51:20

two, four, five, six. And

51:22

there is a description of

51:24

Kyle along with some pictures

51:26

of him. And

51:28

it, we should note that according to

51:30

NamUs, they have his dental records as

51:33

well. There is a help find

51:35

Kyle Fleischman Facebook page with about

51:37

5,000 members. I believe

51:39

this number was significantly higher

51:42

back in 2007 and eight. This

51:46

was set up by his good friend. I believe

51:48

it was his one-time roommate,

51:50

Dan, that set up the Facebook

51:52

page and, and runs

51:55

that page. I do want to

51:57

give a big shout out to the vanished podcast.

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