Charlie and Natalie Jenner (Every Time We Say Goodbye) discuss the war years and 1950s Italian film industry and the Vatican's authority over it, changing working practices after being accused of discrimination, and including still-living celebrities in your book.

A transcript is available on my site

General references:
I talked to Natalie about her previous book, Bloomsbury Girls, in episode 65
Day For Night
Quo Vadis
Umanità
Nine
Summertime
Three Coins In The Fountain
Roman Holiday
A similar quote of Kurt Vonnegut's is "Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages."
I talked to Liz Fenwick about the map girls in episode 100
Natalie's Instagram post on Ray Holland
The Prince Of Foxes
Natalie's episode on chapters 7-9 of Pride And Prejudice for the Rosenbach Library

Books mentioned by name or extensively:
Charles Dickens: Our Mutual Friend
Charles Dickens: A Tale Of Two Cities
Edward Bulwer-Lytton: The Last Days Of Pompeii
Henry James: The Portrait Of A Lady
Jane Austen: Pride And Prejudice
Jane Austen: Emma
Joe Klein: Primary Colors
Natalie Jenner: The Jane Austen Society
Natalie Jenner: Bloomsbury Girls
Natalie Jenner: Every Time We Say Goodbye
Natalie Jenner: Austen At Sea
Sophia Loren: Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow My Life
Zadie Smith: The Fraud
Zoe Wheddon: Jane Austen's Best Friend

Buy the books: UK || USA

Release details: recorded 11th April 2024; published 9th September 2024

Where to find Natalie online: Website || Twitter || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online: Website || Twitter || Instagram || TikTok

Discussions

00:01:52 The different inspirations for the book - old films, Natalie's character Vivian from her previous book, Bloomsbury Girls, the WW2 refugees that lived at the Cinecittà movie studies and then used as extras (this turns into a longer discussion)
00:10:58 More about Cinecittà itself
00:13:08 The Vatican's past authority over the Italian film industry
00:17:59 How Natalie researches her books, and her love of Rome
00:29:30 John Lassiter, urgh!
00:34:20 The importance of Tabitha's story and how a reader's criticism changed how Natalie wrote
00:38:25 La Scolaretta and the stafetta - the young women messengers and assassins in WW2 Italy
00:44:45 Natalie's knowing, and the life of, Ray Holland, film-maker Jack Salvatori's son
00:52:28 Writing as characters celebrities who are still with us, with a focus on Sophia Loren
00:59:16 All about Natalie's forthcoming next book, Austen At Sea, which Charlie reckons will end up being her favourite of all Natalie's books
01:08:59 Natalie tells us why she likely won't write about Jane Austen herself

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