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Whether they are nonprofits, this small entrepreneurs

1:01

in the academic area, financial

1:03

literacy is always important.

1:05

That the people will come on my show allow

1:07

you to walk away with something that you can use.

1:10

Not everybody, but somebody's listening,

1:12

can use something. My guess has to say. My

1:14

next guest, he's on the call. Let's get enrolling

1:17

my guests on the phone. Excuse me. My guess is

1:19

a physician, entrepreneur, author, speaker,

1:21

and co founder of Social Media for

1:23

Doctors, a full service marketing

1:26

and branding agency for physicians and

1:28

medical groups. Please Walk the Money Making

1:30

Conversation Masterclass. Doctor Clarence

1:33

Lee, Doctor Lee, how

1:36

are you my brother? Now?

1:39

You know I called you earlier in the day. I said,

1:41

man, I've never heard of this social

1:43

media for doctors. But before we get

1:45

in there, let's get people a little background

1:47

on you, because this is also

1:50

a business that you started with the friend

1:52

of yours in the business. But let's talk about

1:54

you first. Who is doctor

1:56

Clarence Lee.

1:58

Oh man, I'll do I'll do it

2:01

really really quick.

2:02

Take your time is your moment, Take your

2:04

time. I don't want nothing quick. I want people to get the details

2:07

because a lot of hard work and

2:09

I know you from the past. I've interviewed you in the past,

2:11

and that journey has to be very

2:14

profound and should be told.

2:18

Yeah. So, I'm originally

2:20

from Kansas City, Missouri. I

2:23

had this I had this dream to become

2:25

a physician at a at a

2:27

really young age. Neither

2:30

one of my parents finished college, so

2:33

I ended up being being a you know, being

2:35

a trailblazer trying to go after this medical

2:37

dream. It took me about

2:39

five years to get into medical school, so I applied

2:41

to every medical school for five

2:44

years in a row. And

2:47

during that time I really developed this passion

2:49

for you know, persistence and in teaching

2:52

how to continue going after your dream.

2:55

So after I was able to become

2:57

a physician at

2:59

that time, I joined the military UH

3:02

Air Force officer as a flight doc. An

3:05

opportunity came where I was able to fly jets

3:08

and and take care of pilots for about ten years

3:10

in the Air Force, which

3:13

no one had ever kind of done in my family. And

3:17

as I finished out of the out of the Air

3:19

Force, started working as a civilian,

3:22

started to notice them some potential

3:26

changes I wanted to make in healthcare. UH

3:28

ended up launching my own my own practice

3:31

and kind of going off on an entrepreneurial journey.

3:34

But you know, my story is one

3:36

of you know, having a vision,

3:40

not being afraid to fail as

3:42

you go after that, but

3:44

most importantly just not being

3:47

confused when challenges come your

3:49

way, not turning around and deciding

3:51

that's not for you, but

3:53

but just believing in yourself to continue to keep going.

3:56

And so you know, as I

3:58

as I go into businesses is and do

4:01

interviews and talk to more people, my central messages,

4:03

you know, believe in that vision that God's given you. And

4:06

even if it's a hard road, that doesn't mean it's not for

4:08

you. But keep present.

4:10

Now, doctor clares Lee, five

4:12

years, how many people tell you

4:14

going about your business? How many people told you you're

4:16

wasting your time? How many people told people that you love

4:18

told you this. How did you overcome

4:21

that part of the game.

4:24

I can't explain to you the pure

4:27

amount of people that

4:31

try to give me good advice. I mean, after

4:34

three years, I'm

4:37

supposed to be the success in my family. I'm the first

4:39

four year, you know, college graduate. I'm

4:42

sleeping in my mom's couchs talking about I'm going to

4:44

be a doctor, right and

4:47

you know, this is three years into applying, and

4:51

I shared this one story. There was one pivotal

4:53

moment for me. I

4:55

started trying to be realistic in

4:57

my mind. I'm going to try to apply to

4:59

it. Different professional school. So

5:02

I applied to optometry school. Now

5:04

they're doctors, but their eye doctors. It's not medical

5:07

school. It's different. It wasn't my dream, but

5:09

it was a Plan B for me. And

5:11

what ended up happening was I actually got accepted

5:15

into an optimetry school. And

5:17

you know, in that moment, I really had to make

5:20

a decision to say

5:22

no to a Plan B, which I would have had a good life

5:24

being an optometry right, but

5:26

that was a division. So I had to say, you

5:28

know, no to Plan B just

5:31

to be able to apply again, right, And

5:33

you know, at the end of the day, it was

5:35

really about me believing in betting

5:37

on myself and I think that's the

5:39

best bet that anyone could make. And

5:43

I don't have any regrets from

5:45

betting on myself. And what

5:47

I have found is that if you do not quit,

5:50

you will get closer and closer. And

5:53

so that you know, that's that's what I believe

5:55

in my heart of hearts, is because everybody

5:57

doesn't want the same thing I wanted

5:59

to become a doctor, right, everybody doesn't. So

6:02

that's why I say, believe in what you believe in

6:04

that way you have in your mind, right, because that is

6:06

what's meant for you. Just the timeline

6:09

might be what you expect, it might not be what you expect.

6:11

I'll tell you the doctor, Clarence Lee. It took me seven

6:14

years to get my bachelor, So I would

6:16

tell people that a

6:18

timeline. I understand your timeline because I can

6:20

tell a lot of people told me, man, we shying

6:22

give it up, especially when I was three

6:25

years into college and I was still a freshman. Okay,

6:28

they just knew, and I was a full time student. They

6:30

just knew. You're really wasting your time

6:32

in other people time. You need to go on about

6:34

your business. But it's about being focused. It's

6:37

about being able to stand the lane. Doctor.

6:39

And when I talk about the different levels

6:41

of doctor, what's your feel of training

6:44

when you say the word doctor, what's your

6:46

feel of study or practice?

6:47

Yeah? So yes, So I'm a

6:50

medical doctor, so that's that's different too. So I went

6:52

to medical school. I'm a physician

6:54

on practice medicine, so that's something

6:56

else. You know, there's lots of doctors, but I'm a

6:58

medical doctor our medications.

7:01

And then so my training in is in occupational

7:04

medicine, so a

7:06

flight surgeon in the Air Force practice

7:09

a specific type of occupational medicine, which

7:11

is aerospace medicine, but

7:13

the overall umbrella is occupational

7:16

medicine. So anything that has to do with someone's

7:18

job or job play safety,

7:21

that's what I do. So you

7:23

know, in my in my day job, when I see patients,

7:26

I partner with companies to

7:28

try to help them keep their workplace, work

7:30

work workforce face right.

7:34

And you know, if they end up getting an injury or

7:36

somebody gets hurt, I

7:38

take care of it right.

7:39

You know.

7:39

It was really interesting because like my wife, she's optometry,

7:43

a doctor of autometry, so she's

7:46

listening to these shows. So we're gonna get a kick out of it. You're

7:48

saying, hey, that was your plan, B.

7:49

That was a So this

7:55

is what I tell the students.

7:58

I tell them, if

8:00

you're a part of medical school and you did not

8:02

get in right, look

8:04

and see when the application deadlines

8:07

are for optometry school, and

8:10

it will be after the medical school application.

8:13

So many times people

8:15

will apply to med school and then

8:18

apply to optometry school as a plan being now

8:20

not all the time, Like I said, that

8:22

was my My story was one of one to

8:24

be a doctor, and I wear context,

8:26

so I got love from autometry.

8:31

Nah no, nah, no, no, no,

8:33

Now, doctor Claren's leap. When we when we're talking

8:36

about doctors in general,

8:38

you know, that's when it starts breaking out.

8:40

You know.

8:41

I hear the you know, plastic surgeons,

8:43

they get promoted, you know, and they're like stars,

8:46

you know, and then you hear by you know, other

8:49

you know, other fields of you

8:51

know, people who are doing dermatologists.

8:54

You know, they can kind of like, you know, they

8:56

can recommend that dermatologists over there. But

8:58

when I when I look at the medical doctor

9:01

feel I think they get as much

9:03

respect or a

9:05

representation as a school teacher.

9:07

You know, we know you got to have a school

9:10

teacher. You know the value of a school

9:12

teacher, But do we pay them for

9:14

their value? And it almost feels like

9:16

that's the same thing when you talk about a doctor.

9:18

Am I wrong in saying that?

9:21

No? Very spot on.

9:23

You know, the model is one

9:26

of employment for the

9:28

far majority of positions. Now

9:31

you do have some specialist plastic

9:33

surgeons, dermatology

9:36

who have went to the

9:38

cash based model, which

9:40

is normal business. Like I got to go out and

9:42

promote I have to go out and

9:44

make sure people know the services

9:46

and find the targeted people that I'm going

9:48

after. That's normal business.

9:51

But a typical doctor does

9:55

not have anything to do with the business of

9:57

bringing the patients to them. And

10:00

so, you know, one of the things that I became

10:03

passionate about as I

10:05

started to practice for a large employer

10:08

was understanding that businesses

10:11

understand branding. Doctors

10:13

do not most of the time.

10:15

Right.

10:16

But if the patient is coming to you, I

10:19

encourage physicians, you are the expert,

10:23

not not the system that you're under. You're

10:26

the ones that are going to be writing the recommendations.

10:29

You're the one that the patient is going to be requesting to see.

10:32

So why not brand yourself?

10:34

Right?

10:34

And and uh, and that that's why I said,

10:36

you know, for me, I

10:39

want to brand myself. It is something that I can take

10:41

from employer to employer. And

10:43

honestly, it's a value add. If I go to

10:46

an organization, if I

10:48

already have a brand, right, it's

10:50

a value add to them as

10:52

well.

10:52

Now you're a new company that we're going to get into social

10:55

media for doctors LLC. The

10:57

mission and the vision is elevating

10:59

for posicians personal brands

11:02

and establishing them as authorities

11:04

in their specialties. When I

11:06

think about the different doctors that I

11:08

went to over the years, or the doctors

11:11

I see now when they come in a room,

11:13

they're nondescript, they really are,

11:15

you know. In fact, in fact, when a

11:18

lot of times when I they give me options

11:20

of different people to choose, I

11:22

know nothing about these people. Is

11:24

they male, they female, They may have different

11:27

nationalities, and I just sometimes

11:30

may chick and then my wife she'd do some

11:32

research. When I did some research on that one, you might not

11:34

want to do that person. This person over here

11:36

that he's pretty active. So really,

11:38

what you're saying is that Rachm,

11:41

I'm trying to take it from just a box

11:43

checking off people that you don't know to a brand

11:46

that you can recognize. Is that what you're trying.

11:48

To do now? Absolutely,

11:51

and this helps you to one,

11:54

you know, if I'm producing content on social

11:56

media, it helps the patient

11:58

to get a kind of a few for who

12:00

you are right before they see

12:02

you. Now, every

12:04

patient is going to google their

12:08

condition or their symptoms prior

12:10

to coming in to see you. In today's

12:12

day and age. If you're a doctor

12:14

and you're practicing and you're in

12:16

the space where the patients

12:19

are looking for information, they're

12:23

going to find you. But if you are not there,

12:26

then okay, who's my insurance, who's

12:29

my network? Who

12:31

cannot go and see?

12:33

Right?

12:33

And so for me, it's it's

12:36

multifaceted. Why I feel doctors need

12:38

to have brands. One,

12:41

you need to be where your patients are

12:43

because we need good information. We need

12:46

qualified credential people putting

12:48

good information on the internet. So

12:51

every little pain that you have is not cancer

12:53

and you're not dying, right, you know, I

12:57

need some credential, you know, reputable people

12:59

on there. But

13:02

but but three is also as

13:04

a doctor, it

13:06

helps you to you know, editate the patient

13:09

with get information and they can

13:11

seek you out specifically, right.

13:13

And so you know many doctors

13:16

that don't have brands online, you

13:19

know, they feel at the mercy of the employer,

13:22

right.

13:22

And then also they can let me know.

13:24

Maybe I'm replaceable. Right. And

13:26

I think you have a brand that goes with

13:28

you everywhere that you go.

13:29

And I think that's important that what you're doing,

13:31

because like I said, prior to this interview,

13:33

I called him and I went, Wow, this

13:36

is really amazing. I felt I feel

13:38

his groundbreaking because, like I said, the

13:40

respect and the accountability that is tied

13:43

to what doctors really bring to the table in

13:45

general, is like he's just a

13:47

doctor, and you know I walk in there. I

13:49

was supposed to give the symptoms because the disrespect

13:51

comes in the fact that people will try

13:53

to google these symptoms and think by

13:55

going through the Google or the Internet, doctors

13:58

they can fix themselves. When we'll get back,

14:00

we go talk about more about socializing,

14:03

branding, and marketing, and also learn more about

14:05

his business partner, Doctor Web. Don't

14:07

go anywhere. Listen to money Making Conversations Masterclass

14:10

and I'm speaking to doctor Clarence

14:12

Lee.

14:13

Please don't go anywhere. We'll

14:15

be right back with more money Making Conversations

14:18

Masterclass. Welcome

14:25

back to the Money Making Conversations Masterclass,

14:28

hosted by Rashaan McDonald. Money

14:30

Making Conversations Masterclass

14:32

continues online at Moneymakingconversations

14:35

dot com and follow money Making Conversations

14:38

Masterclass on Facebook, Twitter, and

14:40

Instagram.

14:41

My doctor that I'm speaking to Doctor Clarence

14:43

Lee develop a platform

14:45

called Social Media for Doctors LLC.

14:49

It's been really interesting hearing his story,

14:51

a story of overcoming rejection, the story

14:53

of overcoming their odds. People, when you

14:56

are rejected, you are overcoming

14:58

their odds because somebody has told you no, and

15:00

sometimes the word no could be so powerful

15:02

that they can turn you around. Didn't turn them around,

15:05

not five times. It didn't turn them around. And

15:07

now we're speaking about a groundbreaking

15:09

practice that he's developed with doctor

15:12

Webb, talk to us about the platform that

15:14

you and him created.

15:17

Yeah, so we came up with this idea maybe

15:19

about five years ago. But I wanted

15:22

to start with some initial

15:24

training for social media

15:26

for doctors because there's

15:29

zero and when I say zero, there's

15:31

zero training in medical school. It's

15:34

not in the medical school curriculum,

15:37

it's not in the residency scheduling

15:40

to teach doctors about

15:42

how to properly use social media.

15:45

And there's lots of laws around

15:47

this. Okay, so you know I can't

15:50

just share patient information. I

15:53

can't give medical advice over the internet.

15:55

And so we wanted to be the go to

15:59

kind of source for or physicians to

16:01

get that training so

16:03

that hey, one, I'm not afraid to

16:05

use it because I understand it and I understand

16:07

the regulations around it. But

16:09

two, this is an opportunity for me to get good

16:12

information, good information out So

16:14

we have everything from online courses

16:17

where we train some of the basic skills

16:19

all the way to pr training

16:23

and helping doctors get

16:25

media attention to talk about the things

16:27

that matter to them and also to

16:30

educate the public on health

16:32

on health issues.

16:34

Now, when you talk about it was a little byline

16:36

when I was going through your resume and your bio said,

16:39

both founders have built powerful

16:41

online brands and thriving

16:43

practices using the methods taught

16:45

by their agency. This is the key component

16:47

right here that I want people to hear because

16:50

you know, we look out there and you go,

16:52

you do it. Why is he promoting different chef? He's

16:55

a doctor. Why should he be promoting

16:57

he's a doctor? But like you said, you know

17:00

the different era. You know, it's competition.

17:03

And if you just want to be more than just somebody

17:05

employed by a hospital and they can go and

17:08

feel that a doctor's a dime a dozen,

17:10

you have to build your brand. And that's what you're telling

17:12

people today. You are a brand.

17:14

You have to put work into it, and you

17:17

just cannot allow yourself to be pushed

17:19

aside. If somebody thinks that somebody else

17:21

has more value or can do a better job

17:23

than you, and that's not true, correct, doctorly.

17:27

Absolutely, and I

17:30

have to include entrepreneurship into

17:32

this conversation because

17:35

this is something that has been very powerful

17:38

in doctor Webb's life

17:40

as well as my life. You

17:42

know, physicians work long

17:45

hours. The lifestyles

17:48

are ones of a lot of work. We

17:50

earn a lot, but we put in a lot of hours.

17:53

And so if you look at

17:56

you know, burnout, if

17:58

you look at people changing

18:00

careers or leaving a profession, even

18:03

if you look at suicide

18:05

rates, medicine

18:08

is going to be at the top of

18:10

those categories. So who

18:13

what professions have a high high rate of burnout?

18:16

Which professions are people leaving at

18:19

mass amounts? And then physician

18:22

suicide is one of the highest of any

18:24

occupations. And

18:27

one of the ways that me and

18:29

doctor Webb have combat at that is

18:32

to go into business for ourselves because it gives

18:34

us more a sense of more control of

18:37

our life and how much we

18:39

work. When we can take off things like that, our

18:41

job satisfaction increases significantly.

18:44

So when you talk to physicians, that's

18:47

one of the first things that are going to come out

18:49

is that I'm busy. I'm seeing

18:51

too many patients. They want me to see

18:53

them too fast, and my quality

18:56

of life is decreasing,

18:59

and so for us, building

19:02

a brand allows you then to

19:05

have other sources of income. So I'll just give you a couple

19:08

of examples. I have about

19:10

eight sources of income and

19:13

they all come from my brand. So

19:15

I have my own practice, I

19:17

speak, I teach

19:20

courses online. These

19:22

are all things that I've been able

19:24

to that I've been opened up to. Our opportunities

19:26

have been opened up to me because I have visibility

19:29

and I have a brand online. Right.

19:32

You know when I listen to you speak,

19:34

I just I envision conventions,

19:37

I invention you know, you

19:39

know social media, doctor LLC,

19:42

crews of

19:45

ski trips. Because it's just so many

19:47

different lanes because like you talked about stress

19:50

suicide, you know, lanes of

19:52

being able to be around like minded people,

19:55

bringing fun to the program. Because as

19:57

a doctor, it's one hundred percent pray

20:00

sure doctor,

20:02

it's you know, because you make a mistake, then

20:05

it gets even worse. But when you

20:07

are doing your job, it's really

20:09

no thank you, Really it's really

20:11

no where. That's what you're supposed to do. You're

20:14

supposed to get my child or me

20:16

out of this hospital. So how

20:18

do you balance that as a doctor knowing

20:20

that people just see what you do

20:23

as that's your job, and

20:25

when you make a mistake, it's like how

20:28

dare you?

20:31

Absolutely, and it's something that we deal

20:33

with the medicine a lot. And you know,

20:35

for me, you

20:37

have to be able to practice how you want to practice

20:41

right. And so for me, I

20:43

need time with the patient. I

20:46

need you to understand where I'm coming

20:48

from, who I am,

20:51

and how I'll go about

20:53

doing what I do. But if

20:55

I'm practicing within a system

20:58

where I only have fifteen minutes, it's

21:01

really hard for me to cover

21:03

ground and build rapport. And

21:06

so you know, for me, it's

21:09

time. Like there's no sophisticated

21:12

I spend time with my patients. I

21:15

sit down and I chat with them and

21:17

I make sure I understand what their concerns

21:19

are. There's really no substitute

21:23

to that other than people

21:25

need time to get to know you, and I

21:28

just can't. I can't make that happen in

21:30

ten minutes.

21:31

Well know the thing about it is that your

21:34

physician, doctor Webbers, a physician.

21:37

Having physicians at the helm Over branding

21:39

and marketing agency does have its

21:41

benefits. Tell my

21:44

fans who are just curious and

21:46

also potential doctors who may be listening.

21:49

The value of having two like

21:52

minded individuals being able

21:54

to sit down and discuss branding

21:57

with them.

21:59

It it's huge, and

22:02

part of it is understanding the pride

22:04

of a doctor. Many times,

22:07

Uh, most of the people that

22:09

are making the decisions around

22:11

what you do are

22:14

not doctors.

22:15

Wow.

22:16

CEOs of hospitals typically aren't doctors.

22:19

If you go and look at all the CEOs, there's

22:22

very few that are doctors. Uh.

22:24

The the insurance adjusters,

22:26

people that make decisions on approving care

22:29

that you write for, they're

22:31

not doctors. So many

22:34

times we feel

22:36

like there's these pressures outside of

22:38

the profession and influence what we do.

22:41

And so you know, for

22:43

for us to be led by doctors,

22:46

you know, for me, it's one when a doctor

22:48

talks to a doctor, it's a different

22:50

type of conversation because

22:52

we understand what you're going through. We

22:55

understand the pressures of the

22:57

the time with the patients and

22:59

the turn happens. And

23:01

you know, no one knows our

23:04

avatar or our customer, you

23:06

know, better than us because we are the

23:09

person that we're serving.

23:11

Well, you know, when we're talking. As we close out

23:13

this interview, and thank you for Doctor

23:15

Lee. And I'm going to bring anybody. You've

23:17

raised so many curious questions

23:19

for me and also so many things I want to

23:21

share you and I will call you offline to share

23:24

because the vision that you and doctor Webb are

23:27

establishing is unlimited

23:29

possibilities of being able

23:31

to create growth personally for both

23:34

for your two brands, but also an

23:36

opportunity to give people humanized

23:39

doctors. I think that's the side of doctors.

23:41

We don't even see them as human and and

23:44

and it's oftentime with teachers, we just

23:46

they're doing their job. When people think you're just doing

23:48

a job, then they dehumanize you, and

23:50

they just feel that why should

23:53

I say thanks when you're supposed to do your job.

23:55

You're supposed to educate my child. You supposed to when

23:57

I come to this the hospital, I supposed to leave healthy.

24:00

Now as a brand guy, and you're building

24:02

brands as you walk away. Tell

24:04

us what is most important for people to recognize

24:07

and understand why doctors should be

24:09

valued.

24:12

The most important thing I feel

24:14

is is that we're all individuals.

24:17

We have varied interest I mean,

24:20

you've got doctors that cycle, You've

24:22

got doctors that swim. You've

24:24

got doctors that are in the rock climbing, that are

24:27

into all kinds of things, right, and

24:30

as you build a brand, you're able to

24:32

show that individuality

24:35

to the patient. And I think

24:37

that one it humanizes you because

24:40

hey, yes I am a doctor,

24:42

but I'm a father too, you

24:45

know, I like to go to the beach, you know,

24:47

I know some of the sides we don't always see

24:49

to, you know, to our doctors,

24:53

you know. So for for me, I think being

24:55

able to show that we're individuals, we

24:57

have our own interest. Yes, we're professionals

25:00

experts at what we do, but

25:02

we're people as well. And then being able to,

25:04

you know, to build a brand and

25:07

highlight some of those individual aspects

25:09

of you, I feel like that's very very

25:12

powerful for branding

25:14

and positioning online.

25:16

Oh man, this is a very powerful interview.

25:18

Man, Doctor Clarencelee, thank you for coming on Money Making

25:20

Conversations master Class and I will be calling

25:22

you offline and thank you for coming on

25:24

my show today.

25:26

I appreciate you having me always a good

25:28

time.

25:29

All right again, this is another edition

25:31

of Money Making Conversation master Class hosted

25:33

by me Rashawn McDonald. Thank you

25:35

to all my guests on the show today, and

25:37

thank you our listening artists now.

25:40

If you want to listen to any episode or want to be

25:42

a guest on the show, visit Moneymakingconversations

25:44

dot com. Our social media handle is

25:47

money Making Conversations. Join us next

25:49

week and remember to always leave with your

25:51

gifts. Keep winning. This has

25:53

been another edition of Money Making Conversation

25:55

Masterclass hosted by me Rashawn

25:57

McDonald. Thank you to our guests on the show

25:59

today and thank you for listening

26:02

to the audience now. If you want to listen to any

26:04

episode I want to be a guest on the show,

26:06

visit Moneymakingconversations dot

26:08

com. Our social media handle is money

26:10

Making Conversation. Join us next week

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and remember to always leave with your gifts.

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Keep winning.