0:00

on the table supported

0:01

by our at sierra nevada, brewing company

0:03

who believe that craft beer is a a staple

0:05

today's kitchen and bringing it to yours

0:07

with beer infused recipe at the end of his podcast,

0:10

created by sierra nevada, executive

0:12

chef jessie massey,

0:17

hi

0:17

frances landon this a splendid table

0:20

from atm

0:30

the oktoberfest the biggest beer festival

0:33

in the world is starting like any minute

0:35

now and germany but today we're

0:37

going to talk about beer with a lot less sausage

0:39

and presence and , lot more

0:41

clarity on who exactly laid the foundation

0:44

for beer brewing in our country country

0:46

a stark we have to refund to curator

0:49

at the american billie history initiative at

0:51

the smithsonian national museum of american

0:53

history the you know and actually had

0:56

the pleasure of denier personal towards

0:58

this personal and in it's

1:00

not actually quite like were in or nicholas cage

1:02

would boston and still the constitution but

1:04

it is where the original kermit

1:06

the frog and the clear julia

1:08

child actual home kitchens are housed

1:11

so they take housed cultural

1:13

history very seriously

1:16

and we're not learn how much cultural history

1:18

there is suspected cringed painter

1:21

he saw it's great to have you

1:22

they from us for having me

1:23

so you work at the

1:26

smithsonian national museum of

1:28

american history which is

1:30

like the most serious institution

1:32

on the planet can you

1:34

tell me why the museum

1:36

has the beer historian

1:39

us that ib , literally have

1:41

a store around the corner from me with a sign in the window

1:43

that says be

1:46

and i think that's what most people think of it as

1:48

so tell me why this subject

1:51

meat and historian at the museum

1:53

well and i i encounter

1:55

offensive reactions of the late and amusement

1:58

ends intrigued when i

1:59

and i am a curator of

2:02

beer and brewing history at the smithsonian

2:04

you're right so yes

2:06

as you mentioned him at the american history museum ends

2:09

and we consider the fourth lot of american

2:11

history from even before the nation's founding

2:13

and so beer is as is

2:15

always liked to say it just a fantastic

2:18

lens into all events

2:20

and all areas and themes of our national

2:22

history so if you want to talk

2:24

about immigration beer is there if you want

2:26

to consider changing gender roles

2:28

and consumer tastes you can consider it

2:30

through the lens of beer and so it's and very

2:33

malleable and engaging and son of a

2:35

clickable tool for me as a historian

2:38

and and also and arena where you can

2:40

do serious and the and really

2:42

interest

2:42

research but why the history of

2:44

beer in particular and not wine

2:47

or spirits are drinks in general there something

2:49

specific about beer it sounds like

2:51

well and that the american history museum my

2:54

colleagues and i we researched food

2:56

history as well we researched the history of winemaking

2:58

and and also distilling my

3:00

, though on the history of beer and brewing

3:02

really came about with the recent

3:05

phenomenal growth and the brewing industry that

3:07

come to be known as the craft beer movement

3:09

movement that really began in the mid sixties

3:12

and has continued and it's really been is

3:14

kind of time of explosive

3:16

growth and very small businesses and

3:18

businesses you're likely familiar with the kind

3:20

of rhetoric of returning so artisanal

3:23

brewing techniques and ingredients

3:25

and all of that there's all of all kind of

3:27

a history behind it you know kind of impulse

3:30

to return of a different time free up

3:32

the mass market beer that really dominated

3:35

the mid twentieth century on and

3:37

so the establishment of so the project

3:39

which is called the american brewing history initiative

3:41

is an effort to collect to the history of this

3:44

recent past and present through object

3:46

and documents and oral history

3:47

that can really i tell the

3:49

story of this time but enduring that

3:52

i've i've build completely on the foundation

3:54

that exists at the museum we

3:56

have a wealth of of wonderful artifacts

3:58

and in terms of advertise the material

4:01

sheet music of drinking songs from

4:03

the early part of the twentieth century and

4:06

brewing equipment and so it

4:08

again at my position lives within the division american

4:10

industry at the museum then

4:13

surrounded by this wonderful material culture

4:15

of beer beer history and

4:17

all of those things help me start conversations

4:19

about history and how history has really

4:22

produced are present

4:23

yeah yeah

4:24

as to tell me about that history

4:27

the

4:28

as you say you're in the uniform and

4:30

of the museum it looks

4:32

labour and work and so we talk about people

4:34

and there's this image of who

4:37

beer brewers arm sugar craft beer brewers

4:40

me there is sort of standard

4:42

image of usually it's a

4:44

white dude usually with a beard

4:47

you know may or may not were lot of flannel

4:52

has that always been the archetype

4:54

of who bruise beer in our country

4:57

no and you are spot on

4:59

and it's also a very recent

5:01

very recent contemporary an

5:03

image of of who a brewer

5:06

is what a berlin like and was even what

5:08

the nature of brewing is light and you're

5:10

right that that my position it

5:13

, has a home within the division it does because because

5:15

work of brewing has always been work as been

5:18

enough that it's been always a very utilitarian

5:21

saying that has sustained americans

5:24

and before americans has americans europeans

5:27

and africans and or sumerians

5:29

even before that and so brewing

5:32

and the the fermentation of

5:35

of beer in particular on predates

5:37

the founding of our nation

5:39

the beginning in the early seventeenth centuries

5:42

at european colonists who came to

5:44

this

5:45

who were primarily from

5:46

in going and from the netherlands

5:48

they brought european bring traditions as we

5:51

are more familiar with them today but

5:53

before their arrival indigenous communities

5:55

on this continent produced a variety of from

5:57

and had beverages from ingredients like

5:59

learn and maple sap and a variety of fruits

6:02

and but brewing during the colonial

6:05

times and that early republic areas of

6:07

american history at it was

6:09

very much a small scale operation

6:11

something that was done frequently and

6:13

small quantities at home and

6:15

these were ales and that the to

6:17

great families of beers ale and loggers

6:20

art distinguish primarily by the yeasts

6:22

that brewers use and by the way that

6:24

those

6:24

there's are created

6:26

wow what it so

6:28

this is so interesting cause you know only

6:32

going to embarrass myself right now spillage

6:35

when spillage think of

6:36

colonial like a european colonial

6:38

brewing in jail what we

6:41

now call america i

6:43

literally to think of my sam adams gonna

6:45

fuckin brewer patriot sam adams but

6:48

you're saying a lot of that actually happened at home

6:50

but in a really sort of informal

6:52

or or very small scale operation

6:55

brewing was a domestic sure it was

6:57

like baking bread it was like cooking

6:59

it was not a kind of

7:02

work that was particularly noteworthy

7:04

for many people because it was just so as

7:07

a necessity with something that was

7:09

done was the north part of the

7:11

the sustenance the a families die

7:13

it sure someone's party or twitter

7:15

very much at source and you

7:17

know brewing at this time in particular it was it was

7:19

hot and tedious and heavy

7:21

work it requires hours

7:23

to brew batch of beer you are boiling

7:26

a large quantity of water and then you need

7:28

to cool it you need to store it in all of those

7:31

are all that work takes time and effort

7:33

and eat it to

7:35

ensure that you can do it safely to keep it from

7:37

spoiling so and it's and

7:39

it's not easy it was not glamorous

7:41

or but it was completely essential and it was

7:44

killed in it's own way

7:45

tell me love about that the idea

7:47

of bureau's sustenance

7:50

the i know well as live like that but i'm english

7:54

well at the brewing process requires

7:56

you to boil the water to

7:58

water to water to produce

7:59

beer and so that immediately

8:02

made the and the

8:04

finished beverage finished beverage for thing to

8:06

drink than water but even

8:09

above and beyond that historians have noted

8:11

that americans

8:13

at the time the drinking drinking

8:16

was was not a practice as

8:18

as it is today as is the ina

8:20

we drink water throughout the day but

8:23

but colonists did not have a taste

8:25

for water they understood that it was not a safe

8:27

source of of a of

8:29

hydration that beer was much more

8:31

reliable and so i'm

8:34

all members of a family drink beer

8:36

all day every day whether one was a

8:38

kid or a you know the mother or

8:40

father or the the laborers

8:42

and a household a it was just it

8:44

was the the beverage that was

8:46

was always there on the table and so i'm

8:49

most of these were when we call

8:51

small beers that they were a low

8:53

alcohol

8:54

got it so it wasn't my ever was

8:56

just like

8:57

falling over themselves all day long

8:59

no snow but

9:02

that you know even more prevalent than beer

9:04

in in many parts as of the

9:06

early united states was cider and and than

9:08

than a to often had a higher alcohol content

9:10

and

9:11

there

9:12

that's so interesting yeah i mean it's a disease

9:15

these things that modern people don't think about rather go

9:17

you especially here in our country where

9:19

me i'm most people i'm

9:22

certainly not everyone the most you will have access to

9:24

just potable water through

9:26

have you know you turn on the faucet that where

9:28

you get your water and

9:30

the i don't think of when you had to go get water

9:33

that water has animals living in upstream

9:37

the know that

9:39

this is an era of course long before

9:41

i even the establishment of railroads

9:43

of the cure transportation networks

9:46

a this it it's a mechanical

9:48

refrigeration which compared

9:51

to other things like site or distilled spirits

9:53

are winemaking and beer really

9:55

requires cool temperatures to make

9:57

and to hold in order for it to be a

10:00

safe and beverage to have in your

10:02

household and and thus so need to

10:04

and to make beer frequently and

10:07

in small quantities over and over again to

10:09

keep it safe

10:14

during from the color is a curator

10:16

of the american brewing history initiatives

10:19

at the smithsonian national museum of

10:21

american history was up more with

10:23

the minute and then filmmaker a syndicate

10:25

the talk about a movie she's making about

10:27

black women brewers in the south i'm

10:30

frances lamb and this and this splendid

10:32

table from a pm

10:37

what do the federal funds rate and the price

10:39

of a barrel of oil have to do with you

10:41

been able to buy a house this year how

10:44

to corporate earnings reports affect

10:46

your next vacation do you suppose i'm

10:48

try riddle and marketplace we

10:50

untangle economic news and give you context

10:52

you can actually use because the more you

10:54

know about the financial world the better

10:56

you can plan for what's happening in your

10:59

own world doesn't a marketplace

11:01

where ever you get podcasts

11:04

i break

11:06

of ram and this is a show for curious contributors

11:09

today we're talking about a little known side

11:11

of the past and present of american beer

11:14

and were with teresa mccullough a literal beer

11:16

historian at the smithsonian national

11:18

museum of american history of

11:20

, with her her

11:23

let me for new one as a stories you've researched

11:25

and written about that i didn't really

11:27

and riches and complicates the

11:29

story of american beer making certainly for me

11:32

hello about patreon

11:35

yeah so i was am working

11:37

on my book

11:38

project which is about the food

11:40

and drink culture of new world the nineteenth and twentieth

11:42

centuries and one of the resources

11:44

that i have used for that project is a

11:46

database of what

11:48

historians refer to as runaway ads

11:50

for enslaved people and said these are digitized

11:54

advertisements that were printed

11:56

in american newspapers throughout

11:58

the eighteenth century

11:59

infantry when an enslaved person

12:02

fled from his or her and flavor and

12:04

historians often prefer the term

12:07

and self emancipate or escapes

12:09

it rather than run away from

12:12

the a sliver understanding that this person was

12:14

for east financially valuable to them would

12:16

publish a notice in the local newspaper

12:19

and often these notices were quite brief maybe

12:21

ten lines long and they would i

12:23

described the person's physical appearance and perhaps

12:25

any skills that they had

12:28

also any distinguishing marks scars

12:31

on their body anything that could use to identify

12:33

this person who had

12:35

fled

12:36

and so i first through this database i'm

12:39

thinking instead that perhaps

12:41

i would look and see this as beer

12:43

or or ale were mentioned and any of these

12:45

ads and this remarkable

12:47

add pops up on my computer screen

12:49

and the thing that struck me at first was the

12:52

length of this ad it was far

12:54

longer than typical it occupied

12:56

almost the whole column in the newspaper

12:59

it was printed in the raleigh register north carolina

13:01

and eighteen twenty four ends

13:03

this ad describes a young woman

13:06

who went by the name of patsy young and

13:08

it became clear upon reading the ads

13:10

that this was the second time that she had escaped

13:12

from her and flavor she had first

13:14

escape

13:14

sixteen years earlier and each no way

13:17

but her in slavery in describing

13:19

her and again he described what

13:22

she looks like the tone of her skin

13:25

scar on her face her also

13:27

described said she was she was

13:29

brewer he was skilled at baking

13:31

cakes at sewing fine clothing

13:34

and she had use these the to

13:36

support herself and freedom almost fifteen

13:38

years of freedom as a fugitive in the

13:40

region and it the

13:42

struck me as such an incredible

13:45

initial foothold or handhold

13:47

to have the name of an

13:49

enslaved

13:50

in area

13:51

what we know they were the most common brewers

13:53

but at this is again early

13:56

nineteenth century and sleeved women were

13:58

the demographic that were leave

13:59

likely to be detailed and official historical

14:02

records the us census did not even collect

14:04

the name of enslaved people at the

14:06

time and so to have a name at

14:08

but then also particular and places

14:11

and dates and and skills associated with

14:13

her i wanted to try to

14:15

to research the world around her so

14:17

that we could hopefully better understand

14:20

her story as and or

14:22

the american brewer now

14:23

what else did you find about her story

14:26

well it was a very intriguing

14:29

and i'm challenging but gratifying

14:31

think says

14:32

to research because

14:34

i begin with singles

14:36

credited materials but then i

14:38

, to think what what were the elements of the world

14:40

around her that that could be researched

14:42

to says and her story and her

14:44

skills and so i began

14:47

to look through census records but also to

14:49

learn about the economy and geography

14:51

of that region of north carolina at the time

14:54

the political history said part of the

14:56

united states the time and

14:58

i learned that she was

15:01

enslaved by a man who enslaved

15:03

dozens of people the ,

15:05

lived in a very rural

15:07

regions of north eastern north carolina

15:10

am again the swiss long before the

15:12

era of railroads railroads did

15:14

not lives in a port city where

15:16

she could have more easily slipped

15:18

away when she when she

15:21

escaped the first thing she was sixteen and

15:23

for that period of time that she

15:26

lived or the fugitive she was not

15:29

very far from her and flavor no more than one hundred

15:31

miles away but she clearly

15:33

built a life

15:34

the herself first by

15:36

setting the name that her and flavor

15:39

had given her he listed her

15:41

at first and the ad as up by

15:43

the name pieties but she said in in piety

15:45

she chose the name for herself patsy young

15:48

and then she lived in this reason i'm

15:50

brewing and baking and sewing and learning

15:53

about brewing at the time to time think really reveals

15:56

her skills and her resourcefulness

15:58

because again brewing was difficult

16:00

work or brewers struggled to find

16:02

bottles in which to bottle the beer they means

16:05

quirks and even the wires to secure

16:07

courts were in short supply of

16:09

there was not of malting industry

16:12

in the early united states the time

16:14

up early as the primary green that

16:16

goes into beer and barley and

16:19

malting early we're we're just not

16:22

it was difficult to procure those things at the time

16:24

i'm and so it you know i think all

16:27

of us facts really pointed to

16:29

how good of a brewer she was that

16:31

the and slavery noted that she

16:33

was skilled enough that she could be recognized

16:36

by her brewing proud

16:37

in order to be identified

16:41

so you know that she had

16:43

caped twice

16:45

one a teenager and presumably

16:47

was

16:49

recaptured and

16:51

then escaped again you

16:53

know what became of her after her second escape

16:56

i don't i don't yet know the end of her

16:58

story and i don't know that i will buy

17:01

there were several important happenings

17:03

in her life that occurred

17:05

shortly before her recap

17:07

there and this a point out she was

17:09

recaptured by recaptured by same and flavor

17:11

so i'm the first add

17:13

that i stone in the newspaper it was published in eating

17:16

twenty four at mention that she had escaped or first

17:18

time i was able to find the initial

17:21

run away admin she had escaped and eighteen

17:23

oh wait that was published in each you know nine the

17:26

, flavor ran that ad for several

17:28

months and but was

17:30

clearly unsuccessful and he stops paying

17:33

to have it printed and then for these

17:35

fifteen years she lived and freedom and

17:37

the ad noted that she and spent some

17:39

time working along the roanoke

17:42

to now when it was being constructed in the

17:44

northern part of north carolina she's

17:46

worked cooking meals for the laborers

17:48

who are building the now i'm and

17:50

then around eating twenty she had

17:52

twenty she named allies them the

17:55

ad noted this occurrences well and

17:58

then one of them more the thing find

18:00

that my research was thats she married

18:03

a free man of color living in the region

18:05

his name was it kill johnson and

18:07

and archives in north carolina has

18:10

digitized the marriage license from

18:12

when she married him and that was an

18:15

incredible source to find because

18:17

in a you look on your computer screen to see the city's

18:20

piece of paper which is two hundred years

18:22

old and you see her name

18:24

printed their patsy young understanding

18:26

that's the name she chose for herself again next

18:29

to the name of her husband there though it that a witness

18:31

made his mark on the shoot this piece of

18:33

paper that's indicated a a

18:35

a choice is something that she was able

18:37

to do of her own free will but it

18:39

was less than a year after that happened

18:42

less than a year after her marriage that her

18:44

and slavers found her recaptured

18:46

her and not only

18:48

hurry he took her daughter

18:50

lysa bad with him to

18:52

his county and had

18:55

them put up for sale as enslaved

18:57

people he purchased them and brought

18:59

them back to his property and

19:02

about and year later patsy escaped

19:04

again bringing her daughter with her and

19:06

that's the point where this

19:09

hit

19:09

the as i found it began for me

19:11

so i kind of worked backwards but it's

19:14

also at the moment the point where at

19:16

least my understanding of her history ends

19:18

and and there's more research to do i know

19:20

for serves that

19:23

i'm not ready to come well

19:25

yeah but i am just and some of the subsequent

19:28

research i done and in the last few

19:30

months i insist

19:33

the kind of fragment kind something fragment of in another

19:35

north carolina counties a couple

19:37

decades after this ended and it was a record

19:39

of fun the inflatable been passed

19:42

from one saver to another fia well but

19:44

it's the piety and analyzer

19:46

and a benjamin they're linked and adjust

19:49

it might be a coincidence but as as something

19:51

worth looking into i'm you know it it

19:53

seems it would seem to indicates a mother

19:55

and two children which would mean that she

19:57

was captured again but

19:59

a

19:59

that's not the case and them and

20:02

oh i'm gonna keep on going on us

20:05

what an incredible story

20:06

and really a me a reminder

20:08

that certainly with you , a long

20:10

time history was really written with only with powerful

20:13

a mind answer for you to be able to

20:16

sign these bits and pieces

20:18

through time to help reconstruct a story

20:21

and reconstructed life and a half as understand

20:24

near the lives of so many people

20:26

the we're not

20:27

what are the kinds of people that history was written

20:30

about and four

20:31

the think that prompts the question how many others

20:34

we know there are countless others

20:36

who were who were immigrants who

20:38

were enslaved people not just in this

20:41

era but in other areas who built

20:43

the foundations of industries that we

20:45

enjoy today but you

20:47

don't we started we started thinking about

20:50

food similiar image of

20:52

of a brewer yesterday a craft

20:54

brewers and that really

20:56

drives very much from a

20:58

recent past events in

21:00

the mid eighteen hundreds toward the

21:02

end of of what might have been pets young's

21:05

lifetime when immigrants came

21:07

from present a germany and the czech republic

21:09

and brought a new tradition of lager

21:11

brewing and in the process made brewing

21:13

beer into a profession a profitable procession

21:16

something that was done and factory like

21:18

settings and it was at that time that

21:20

beer moved out of the home out of the

21:22

realm of domestic work women's work

21:25

became something made by men and

21:27

and so i'm the kind of gender

21:30

thing of american beer and

21:31

switched very much

21:33

the end of the nineteenth century and so in

21:36

the images that we might have an arm mine

21:38

today at which are reflected by that current

21:40

demographic the idea of the brewing industry

21:43

and those really are rooted in the

21:45

past that stretches back to the late eighteen

21:47

hundreds but before that time there's

21:50

another history and the people

21:52

who built beer were very different

21:54

they were women and enslaved people and and there are

21:56

not necessarily am diaries

21:59

that they were

21:59

moderator records that they were able to

22:02

make about their own lives because they

22:04

were not an able to do those things to

22:05

those records about their own stories oh

22:09

thank you so much series of such important

22:11

history

22:12

absolutely thank you so much for having me

22:15

theresa mykola in the curator of the american

22:17

brewing history initiative at the smithsonian

22:20

national museum of american history as

22:22

is reading a book called insatiable city

22:24

eating food and consuming and people

22:26

and new orleans

22:30

a lawyer and

22:32

documentary on the t located

22:34

never had me projects about artists

22:36

highways quilters and part but

22:39

i want to know what , or make a

22:41

full length feature of a beer

22:43

and black women and what she found

22:45

found here to talk about her movie in progress

22:48

this belongs to us heights

22:50

, it's good to have you

22:52

hey francisco

22:53

yeah we're , just talked

22:55

with three mccullough about patsy young who

22:58

was and enslave brewer and north

23:00

carolina and i was so

23:02

interested to learn it you're making it you're about

23:04

beer brewing today that also

23:07

happens be centered on north carolina

23:09

so

23:10

recruiter for with how you came to the subject

23:12

so i can get a subjects a

23:15

few years ago i ,

23:17

in raleigh i'm i'm i'm max and

23:19

forty fourteen effort came here it's a college

23:21

that you would see chapel hill and after

23:23

moving back decided to pursue certificate documentary

23:26

arts at duke the center for documentary said

23:28

he had just finished working on

23:30

some of my first sort film and sort audio

23:32

project when of which was about

23:34

a artist and a d day

23:36

and activists name a gemini

23:39

gemini ah was going to see

23:41

a new exhibit had some had

23:44

a in downtown durham exams

23:46

artwork is centered on black sam

23:49

black women like body

23:51

the and either going into

23:53

some faith walked by every that

23:55

has opened up nearby was really they say

23:57

they have the garage doors open

23:59

the and of the crowd and everyone by

24:02

large appeared my

24:04

then i go any them or faith and it's the plus

24:06

know black and blue or black man had her

24:08

sieberg i've been around black artistic

24:11

expression and then i go leave

24:13

at the end of the night packing this game

24:15

largely white pine thought this brewery and

24:18

i'm near the railroad tracks

24:20

railroad classic

24:21

the from one of be armed

24:23

worse shape public housing

24:26

or community than durham there was a really

24:28

interesting dissonance i was experiencing

24:30

have like three or four different versions of durham

24:33

and in one spot me and

24:35

you know after i moved back to north carolina one

24:37

of the things i had noticed with about how

24:39

much space beer

24:41

oh sure in a beer industry hook

24:43

up in north carolina a com furries

24:46

are considered around nine billion dollars

24:48

to the north so on economy that line with a b

24:50

y and round fourteen eighteen black

24:52

cat was around three hundred breathe across the state

24:54

so we talk about pretty good craft brewing in the south

24:57

but ceylon as if only one is epicenter and

25:00

so it's interesting been in those faces

25:02

know the scenes on how

25:04

to a bill either faces were centered

25:06

around kind of sir i was a stereotype

25:09

of the bearded beer bro

25:10

i'm him and literally like men armed

25:12

with it because sabbath so different from what

25:14

i

25:15

grew up knowing about beer history

25:17

of beer culture i had a more premiums are

25:19

the my parents are keen to the us

25:21

to nigeria and then eighties seventies style

25:24

and i grew up with

25:26

an understanding an awareness of history of egyptians

25:28

berlin the ethiopian

25:31

throwing end we actually had a family friend

25:33

who worked as a broad and nigeria

25:35

that effort braver met was a black african

25:38

mean so i was wondering

25:40

wow how did this class that i've

25:42

known as being kind of inherently african

25:45

you know become so identified

25:47

with male white identity

25:49

of united states

25:50

that super interesting

25:52

he'll surely after the initial

25:54

experience with have filed it ends

25:56

and twenty nineteen happened to be

25:58

as the heap hi

25:59

that the all which is a black compatible

26:02

that's held in durham every year for

26:04

those don't know hate high is there

26:06

a historically black community

26:09

here in durham it's one of the many black

26:11

wall street that existed prior

26:14

to the era of with them efforts

26:16

with negro remove all other first with

26:18

urban renewal but

26:19

when a highway highway one

26:21

forty seven cut through i'm

26:24

in be in the demise of other

26:26

a black economy and ecosystem that existed

26:29

and so that he has some festival i'm

26:31

again focuses on black film in some

26:33

intermission there were some wind

26:36

up for example worth of the or from harlem

26:38

brewing

26:39

the parliament in new york city hall

26:40

yeah and for those you don't now how bearing

26:42

was actually of founded a

26:44

by the last baby who is acknowledged

26:46

and recognized as the first black

26:48

woman in the us

26:49

the own hamburg

26:51

doctor when native of with the salem north

26:53

carolina graduate aside universe

26:55

the in raleigh north carolina opposite

26:58

know they're all that at the time with

27:00

a partner family with that a black woman made it's beer

27:02

and i thought oh that's cool with that black

27:04

may be irritable and that's what makes sense us

27:07

and our it in the person said and

27:09

he knows is also apprenticing ah

27:11

young woman in his

27:12

the north carolina

27:14

like why that's when i

27:16

realized or maybe there's a they are there to begin

27:18

researching and came upon the beer

27:20

festival call if it's finally confessed that

27:22

that was held every year pittsburgh the

27:24

and i decided to make a trip of the earth to

27:26

do some research and when i arrived

27:29

it was dislike the scale fell off

27:31

my eyes like i i

27:33

had no idea about black beer

27:35

culture until culture until the press fast you

27:37

know i'm going around high beers and

27:40

i suck at one table what can

27:42

i didn't card and they drafted rocky

27:44

mount north carolina and carolina look up at supper

27:46

and unlike your ear and rocky mountain she goes

27:48

the and i'm from durham my way

27:50

into that the moment i met brianna break the

27:53

seal and brewmaster safely brewing

27:55

on in with the person that i heard about

27:58

activity by film festival i

28:01

think the other than important moment that

28:03

happen around the same time actually was

28:05

the the has has i'm craft beer

28:08

the what happened was signed

28:10

a white is also known as afro beer sec ah

28:13

who's this and chicago i fear

28:15

post on twitter about basically some

28:17

very recently vitriolic hate

28:19

mail that she'd received in i'm

28:22

that also stated that as a

28:24

black woman she really didn't have any place and beer

28:26

black people didn't have any place a beer they don't belong

28:28

in beer and still falling that

28:30

arms after jays and that some

28:33

insolent and other folks created

28:35

the and i'm happier really encouraging

28:37

people to take a self the

28:39

and post it ,

28:41

the expanse in the brass have

28:43

the craft beer a gift community

28:45

for latin better term term

28:47

think that moment was definitely one that was a

28:50

catalyst around the theme of reclamation

28:53

that we're seeing a lot around all kinds

28:55

of food ways in the us but particularly

28:57

around beer and i think

28:59

it makes it's really important statement that

29:02

you know any history about beer the does not

29:04

include black people is deficient in

29:06

we know so tell

29:08

me about the black

29:11

your community is it a world where

29:14

it recognizes that

29:17

you know there are things for us

29:19

the referencing the title your film

29:21

there there are certain ways in which it is

29:24

connected to and needs to be connected

29:26

to and deserves be connected

29:28

to the larger craft beer community

29:31

yeah both for sure

29:34

you know there's an interesting and should have been exploring

29:36

on this project

29:37

around here

29:39

being part of kind of the larger category of spirits

29:41

and alcohol

29:43

that had a history and they have a global

29:45

history and they have a specific history as

29:47

it relates to

29:49

certain group the folks in the last and

29:51

the how the things are impacted by the

29:53

history of the said the clinic place

29:55

read of white supremacy

29:57

a community

29:59

then

30:00

yeah and i think you can't

30:03

talk about

30:04

your history in the us with are also talking about

30:07

i realize history in terms of

30:09

who were allowed to do that's what

30:11

labour

30:12

it's repeated to the building a success

30:14

is temporary than others who was taboo

30:16

the owners and saloon owners lost their burrow

30:18

either during race riot

30:20

you know what women were allowed

30:23

to actually own

30:24

our brewing fitness how do you think

30:26

the round respectability politics

30:29

the and need a black hole with and

30:31

things like that settles the police how

30:33

some people interacted with with beer effect

30:36

that is so that's one of the things i love of the most about

30:38

the positive that they're all these themes that

30:40

you can explore

30:42

you know beer through

30:43

and i think it's also this desire

30:46

to like continue to make those connection

30:48

between

30:49

you know what's happening modern day and

30:53

you know that our ancestors

30:54

the in you could see that he would even just some of the

30:56

ways that flappers that the decisions they

30:58

make about naming their breweries the

31:01

ingredients that your they're using ah

31:03

you know the beer south of

31:06

their brewing

31:07

and even working on the part

31:09

that i'm and twenty putting wine

31:11

when i was prepared to your works in progress feeling for

31:13

sundance my mom

31:15

for the first time shared with me that

31:18

my goal mother was a bird

31:20

in it's he ah brut yeah

31:23

what you're in the dot

31:25

i did not my mom would always

31:27

have that my grandmother the a few stress

31:29

is this is the hustler getting on my part

31:31

of involved in all the sun but he never

31:33

ever talked about her as a brewer and

31:36

so i started working on a project

31:37

and tomorrow hear that see both while

31:40

it is yeah see brewed am but a coup

31:42

to which is the

31:43

not permitted drink and

31:45

the africa meta sorghum start

31:47

to think some of the the connections between politically ways

31:50

in west africa that's one think

31:52

that come up for hims also naturally gluten

31:55

that's often folks are using to make free

31:58

but yeah,

31:59

the elections and those type of

32:03

i think that this desire

32:05

to be able to point that see the fact

32:07

that

32:08

you know that belongs to us because it was always apart

32:11

you know who we worried who we are brewers

32:14

are tapping into

32:17

when i think

32:18

i'm a craft beer unique which is

32:21

that's really close connection to agriculture

32:24

my feel like so like

32:25

like the people crew

32:27

had their own version of for

32:29

meant to be earth with or seats are okay

32:32

my grandmother is but a good you but it was

32:35

about what was the agriculture growing

32:37

nearby what with the grain right

32:39

like that's really a big difference the money from

32:41

it's a drink themselves modern

32:43

edo crackers i think the really honoring kind

32:45

of what is what big craft beer crafts

32:48

and as well as bringing in some of their you

32:50

know the identity system of them are using sorghum

32:53

some of them are using it out there to the fact

32:55

that you see potatoes or it's like

32:56

the party the now the put the proper

32:59

foods the best i'm in okay

33:01

that's a very north carolina products

33:04

word the much good i'm again

33:07

another

33:07

or i'm i'm just have the for grapes

33:09

yeah yeah they're they're bringing

33:11

you know again like

33:13

high a nice food ways because i mean

33:16

so much about the food waste of the south that we love a really

33:18

african

33:19

on oprah

33:20

and imitated i don't

33:23

know how the game year

33:24

so when the crackers

33:28

the honor

33:29

all the way the which to bring in

33:31

that local agriculture ensued their

33:34

beers

33:35

they're being shrewder you know what makes craft

33:37

the in they're able to

33:39

i think it's some cases

33:40

you know bill and felt the connection to

33:43

the ingredients that some of their

33:45

forebears

33:47

overview than enter into

33:49

rated anthem at neighboring practice thank

33:52

you so much keener this keener this really

33:54

great

33:55

thank you fanfare this i talking

33:56

athena

33:58

gave vivre is

33:59

nectar the forthcoming documentary is

34:02

belongs to us coming ,

34:04

beer and preparing to get excited about this

34:06

fall with gear writers stephanie grand

34:09

oppresses lamb and this lamb and splendid table

34:18

i've read his land and this is a splendid

34:20

tables the show for curious cooks eaters

34:23

infringers and that's because our next

34:25

guest is stephanie grant a writer

34:27

for good bear hunting craft beer dot

34:29

com and other magazines insight we're

34:32

gonna get into her favorite your styles and

34:34

what to eat with them for them fall

34:36

hi stephanie it's great to see you

34:39

the great to see you

34:40

so been i

34:42

for have it's harmless been around for people i actually

34:45

aussie don't really get to meet that many beer journalists

34:48

so now i hear and front of

34:50

a real a beer journalists and i want

34:52

to see what dot you into beer

34:54

oh well as

34:57

the thing that got me into beers i started

34:59

watching football well i guess

35:02

i started watching football because i was

35:04

watching friday night lights and night just loved

35:07

i loved that show so the so the needed to

35:09

for you got in the football because you're watching the

35:11

show fi that life hit

35:14

us i got so excited

35:17

about how excited the fans

35:19

were easier so and so i was like was like

35:21

be a football fan or was a simple and

35:24

like worth watching football there we need

35:27

to start drinking beer the fastest

35:29

player or football or go hand in hand

35:32

so , take him budweiser

35:34

will bud light at the time is ethel my

35:36

dad would drink and from there

35:38

i started exploring

35:40

ah and i the first beer that

35:42

really does not my fault selfless

35:45

l guess why and of just not

35:48

turn back since i would you say it

35:50

it changed my life i'm i

35:53

i'm pretty sure i tried other things but

35:55

that one was the one sit

35:57

on my mind i still remember that moment

36:00

was like you

36:02

describe it has

36:05

his athleticism

36:07

italy has these beautiful

36:09

note of orange

36:11

, in coriander it's

36:14

a belgian style leap here ministers

36:18

so delightful numb palette

36:19

our at all and and so deserve open

36:21

your world and like

36:23

wow there's so much more to see so much

36:25

more defined exactly

36:28

is her and i'm actually know from

36:30

you in fact that there are over seventy

36:34

that are commonly accepted styles of beer

36:37

but

36:38

you know a lot of them are seasonal a lot of a more

36:41

perennial but as we head into fall

36:44

what are some of the beers are some

36:46

the stars a beer that you look forward to

36:48

the middle to help define these of them yes

36:52

, actually at let's

36:54

talk about the different styles and then i can

36:56

actually tell you like which ones i think

36:58

are great for fall you have a bow

37:01

on i so there's

37:03

a book the beer and

37:05

the beer pantry that is this fantastic

37:08

i love the way to divide the beer styles

37:10

up on because they are it's are

37:12

actually seventy five plus styles

37:15

it's they can be difficult

37:17

they get through all of them but i

37:21

love the way they broke this out and so you have

37:24

chris and queen wishes wet probably everyone

37:26

is drinking right now do you have your loggers he

37:28

has blond lgf year courses

37:31

and then you can get are also those hoppy

37:34

an arbiter beers those are

37:36

also good around this time of year

37:38

at yale are huge on

37:41

you have double ip ace and pale ales

37:43

and , multi asleep that's where you get

37:45

into those fall flavors and

37:48

that's when you have like have brown l

37:50

a double on a scotch

37:53

ale you can also

37:56

and when you get really into on

37:58

that colder weather this they can reach

38:00

are rich in bros he and

38:03

that's when you will have like your style

38:05

importer those are

38:07

some of my favorite them i hadn't favorites

38:10

ah and then i'm

38:12

not going back to summer he would

38:14

probably wanna reach for something freudian spicy

38:17

say zones are delicious triples

38:20

, wheat beers all of refreshing

38:23

very nuanced beers beers

38:26

another category i love drinking in the

38:28

summer it's power tart in

38:30

tart and that's when you

38:32

get into you digs in

38:35

any of those sour beers whether

38:37

it's americans beers our on

38:40

kettles our those our on

38:43

and so going back to all

38:46

beers the multi and fleet

38:48

those are the ones that are going to stand up to

38:51

dislike , i

38:53

love making embrace this is in the fall

38:56

silent for a short ribs are my

38:58

favorite the i ns those

39:00

i would appear with a double tell me what has doubled

39:03

again again double is

39:05

a belgian style beer is coins

39:07

is has on some

39:10

very like rich some

39:12

like ceremony maybe

39:14

even like ceremony hence the flight chocolates

39:17

because the grains are roasted

39:20

on longer and so they

39:22

take on and lot of like if you think

39:24

about roasted coffee beans or something

39:27

similar to that something that rose

39:29

help bring in some of those lake

39:32

rich or more full bodied slavery

39:36

and co in coffee terms out be

39:38

like a a a dark roast

39:41

vs something like really light and freudian fresh

39:43

like he might find the can really like light roast

39:46

and yet either doubles are you fucking love

39:48

the you'd recommend this to check out

39:50

oh i can't think of one

39:52

off the south my it so i would say

39:55

if you walk into your local brewery

39:57

villa policy difficult for you do actually

40:00

fine a double on tap for

40:02

, types of beers i would recommend

40:05

going to a specialty shop in

40:07

if you're really if you're looking to get into

40:09

beer especially south is where you want

40:11

to go on because the people

40:13

they are gonna be able to figure

40:16

out what your preferences are teeth

40:18

wise and guide you and that's

40:20

honestly that the biggest thing that has help

40:23

me or my journey when i start it was

40:25

walking to especially shop but

40:27

, just as think of a brand

40:30

only gang and yell

40:32

day that would be a good double

40:34

to look for okay and double

40:36

is it's not d o u b o e or it's

40:38

e you this bug me

40:41

el nino and he said it's

40:43

a lot of people think doable but it

40:46

is double vision of a read on as

40:48

those are typically are often imported

40:50

from belgium some are not ,

40:52

local breweries will happen happen

40:55

breweries here in america as to

40:57

make them they're not a super popular

40:59

style to make here in

41:02

america we love our eyepiece and sours

41:05

how can those reign supreme

41:07

and of course longer

41:08

the now

41:09

the okay so what's another beautiful

41:11

fall dish slash

41:14

beer pairing for you

41:17

yeah so another

41:19

thing i love making in the fall chile

41:22

and , best spirit appear with

41:24

a chilly as a brown ale a brown ill

41:26

will be a little bit easier to find focus

41:29

on what makes a brown ale a brown ale brown

41:32

ales and doubles

41:34

have similar characteristics

41:37

the a brown ale can either the

41:39

owners on the sweet side

41:42

are they can have a bit more that

41:44

rose so if you think a foul

41:47

go back to call the like

41:49

if you just add sugar hill sugar black coffee

41:52

harms versus keeping

41:54

his lady his lady rose

41:56

so it's not super it

42:00

dark in a row seats but

42:02

it it kind of in the middle like he can

42:04

ever the and roast coffee

42:07

no shelter i'm so proud

42:09

of and kind of race between those two

42:12

and monday night through a in

42:14

atlanta i i used to work there

42:16

and they make this really delicious brown

42:18

ale that as like maple syrup in it

42:21

and ah but you're literally syrup

42:23

in the beer not beer not notes of ah

42:25

yes and what i've

42:27

always wanted to do with said ah

42:30

reduce it down to a thera up and put it on my

42:32

pinky oh and then

42:34

also and i have another period for you for the brown

42:36

ill or if you like roasted

42:38

pork or many roasted pork dish would

42:40

also be go with that

42:42

yeah i can see that

42:44

the you really love that like crackly

42:46

caramelized nice my are yeah

42:48

it would like that so sweet pork flavor

42:51

i could always do that without a nice roast the

42:53

beer

42:54

the around and so with

42:56

parents you want to

42:58

look for a complimentary flavor

43:00

or a good contract

43:02

they believe i'm more fallen that

43:05

complimentary on those

43:07

mouth he sleep rosie

43:09

beers usually have the same characteristics

43:12

there's a lot of are false and serve

43:14

you think about raising a short ribs and

43:16

getting on that mylar

43:18

effect that those same

43:20

light notes in the food or gonna

43:22

be in those beers

43:24

there the other makes perfect sense

43:27

to

43:27

and in my next favorite

43:30

amber ale amber ale a really great

43:32

live all kinds of foods and

43:35

, are going to be lighter in color

43:37

so that doubles and the brown ale

43:39

are gonna be darker look more

43:41

like a black coffee versus

43:44

an amber ale is gonna look we're

43:46

read and the

43:48

knee amber ale safe like fall like

43:50

a fall leads like

43:53

anything that's live at amber ale

43:55

a light to me i'm about

43:57

and that those you it wants

43:59

you

43:59

here in amber ale with a pumpkin

44:02

pie it

44:04

got going back to football and

44:06

real me sell your

44:09

burgers the or barbecued chicken

44:12

i'm sauce is that's

44:14

the best they are you want to bring for tailgate

44:17

right on okay was speaking

44:19

of that then everything about

44:21

people grilling and people using like barbecue

44:23

sauce and barbecue sauces have acid the have

44:25

sweeteners they have some a chili's

44:28

and spiciness is that that

44:30

match with the amber that i'm kind

44:32

of feel arlington

44:33

yeah so i would say as we speak

44:36

to a tomato base barbecue

44:38

sauce for this and

44:41

more probably more so than like a lawsuit

44:43

base or i'm

44:46

thinking your traditional of what

44:48

i grew up with like the crass by a

44:51

about of by surface on throws on sick

44:53

and on the grill not really like oh yeah hardcore

44:56

yeah most mobile some game the

44:58

classic nato i'm you

45:00

can have a little that it's but you don't want

45:02

to have too much for you don't want to

45:05

overwhelm the beer and

45:07

that's something that you ever think of when you're

45:09

thinking of parents and making sure that those flavors

45:12

don't class i like always

45:15

think about what the beer tastes like

45:17

and then what the food tastes like

45:19

and then try to imagine what they with a fight together

45:22

before i'm put something together

45:24

yeah

45:25

why she wouldn't look the that brings me with

45:27

a question i have for you then which

45:29

is something that

45:31

you know why people are really obsessive ideas

45:34

yeah and one of the signatures of and i play

45:36

is it's very happy they

45:39

can be very bitter and that and that hobby sort of

45:41

resin he almost piny flavor

45:44

from the hops with bitterness i

45:46

think people like like the complexity in the drink

45:50

do you eat food with that would would

45:53

you pay with ip

45:55

you can m it can be

45:57

a little tricky but you can m

45:59

some of [unk]

45:59

the things that are easy it like a

46:02

pizza burgers on

46:04

but i i've heard and

46:07

this is something on wanna try soon carrot

46:09

cake apparently is very hard with

46:12

an ip a us in

46:14

also getting back to like some fall foods

46:17

a butternut squash soup is

46:19

also good with an ip a okay

46:21

are so orange first has

46:24

, so good at the

46:27

same road og like people

46:29

may think of carrot cake in terms of like

46:31

the that a moist this is about the texture

46:34

it's about the cream cheese frosting but you know they

46:36

have club he will make their character will little bit of

46:38

warm space ray a little bit of

46:41

than a man a little bit but not

46:43

very much yeah maybe

46:45

with like that kind of tiny

46:48

kind of the bitterness of the i p

46:50

i could i can kinda see that

46:52

so i have heard the sweetness

46:55

and the

46:55

hey help cut some the

46:57

that better known as the you get some

47:00

more of that like you said the pines

47:02

on maybe i would six

47:04

two so there as fast

47:07

variety of variety of a

47:09

turtle i was six do not

47:12

necessarily a new england are hazy

47:14

i play with the tropical note

47:16

i would the are more towards

47:19

those tiny resonant i've

47:21

used with carrick a cool

47:23

so what actually aren't like the most popular

47:25

beer styles and market like the ones are just find

47:28

a pretty much any store yeah

47:30

so i've ,

47:33

reigns supreme supreme

47:36

follow behind their with say lager

47:39

and wisely

47:42

i would say lot

47:42

there are

47:44

probably over ip eighth if you look

47:46

ah if you don't make the distinction between

47:48

craft beer and just

47:51

mcnamara , yeah yeah i

47:55

so yes loggers then

47:57

i then a's and then the

48:00

hours especially salaries that

48:02

have like this freely that balances

48:04

sweet ends heart

48:07

and ones , are becoming

48:09

really popular are almost like smoothies

48:11

and away has a very sick

48:14

and buried packed

48:16

full of fruit ah those

48:18

can be really find delicious to

48:20

drink

48:21

the circle it's surprising

48:23

that they're really popular setup they would be like a more

48:25

ago specialty thing

48:27

no it's been surprising in

48:30

particular the ones that are very

48:32

like sick and super fruity

48:34

they do a really good job of balancing

48:37

out some of that tartness so people who

48:39

might fear , from something

48:41

that sour they actually enjoy

48:43

them because of the of balance between

48:46

the two super

48:48

delicious thank you so much stephanie thank

48:50

you

48:54

granted make about beer food

48:57

and cocktails and the black women behind them

48:59

and her newsletter the share he decided

49:01

on success nasa show

49:03

thanks as always for listening and by the way we

49:06

are actually getting the interface imitating

49:08

is not too early for you to stop

49:10

reading feel really going to eat pretty

49:12

helpless willing for great question

49:15

to throw our news and guess way for

49:17

and more sense to the day so that's so that's

49:19

enough

49:19

how the quarter

49:21

asking them questions on your voice memo api remember

49:23

it to contact a splendid humor about the word

49:26

for using our show will put you to drawing to win one

49:28

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49:31

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49:33

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49:35

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49:36

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49:38

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49:41

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49:43

and that made every week a technical producers

49:45

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49:47

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49:49

it increases

49:51

when this is a pm

49:59

the show

49:59

supported by sierra nevada brewing company

50:02

and their executive chef jesse matthews here

50:04

today with a craft beer inspired recipe

50:06

asia what you got

50:08

i francis i got free

50:10

does today some blaze carrots it's

50:12

one of my favorite veggies yeah classic

50:14

yeah classic it because it's earth the

50:17

is sweet and as flavors balance

50:19

really nicely with the bright acidity of the ginger

50:21

lemon hibiscus strange beast hard

50:23

computer vocal see it as top i'm

50:25

off with a little fast on and for a little

50:27

crises many the other delightful side

50:29

this to go with roast chicken

50:32

turkey or by itself

50:34

that has super good

50:36

to get the full the recipe for the strange beast hard

50:38

kombucha glazed carrots from sierra nevada

50:40

brewing company for the splendid table

50:42

dot org slash sierra nevada

50:44

can be a new recipe every month to say to