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1:44
Bbc Sounds Music Radio
1:47
podcasts, Hi. I'm
1:49
Katie Razzle and this is the media show
1:51
from Bbc Radio Four. She's.
1:54
One of the most powerful women in Hollywood
1:56
now at the helm of one of the
1:58
movie industry's biggest players. won't. Brothers Motion
2:00
Picture Group, the 101-year-old studio that
2:03
first brought us the talkies, ushering
2:05
out the silent movie era with
2:07
its jazz singer, and the
2:09
studio behind beloved classics from Casablanca
2:11
to Batman. But in recent
2:14
years, Warner's faced challenges, not just
2:16
problems caused by Covid and strikes
2:18
by actors and writers, but others
2:20
of its own making, not least
2:22
a falling out with director Christopher
2:24
Nolan, who took his award-winning Oppenheimer
2:27
to Universal instead. The
2:29
company is also now riding high
2:31
with Barbie, the biggest-grossing film in
2:33
the company's history. Pam Abde, thanks
2:35
for having me on the lot. Hello. Just
2:39
to talk about your career for a little
2:41
bit first, you started as an intern and
2:43
then receptionist at Jersey Films, the production company
2:45
that made Pulp Fiction, and you ended up,
2:47
you know, you went on to be assistant
2:50
to the co-founder and actor and director Danny
2:52
DeVito. What was that like
2:54
and what were your first impressions of
2:56
the movie business back then? Well, the
2:58
movie business back then was pretty exciting.
3:01
It was 1995 when
3:03
I moved here and I went to
3:06
Emerson College and they had this wonderful
3:08
program, this internship program, so that's how
3:10
I obtained the internship through them. And
3:14
it was fantastic. It was exciting. I mean,
3:16
like driving onto the, they were
3:18
at the time on the Sony lot. So driving
3:20
on the Sony lot, which is the old MGM
3:23
lot, like feeling the history of film and being
3:25
like, you know, for me being this
3:27
kid from New Jersey, I couldn't even
3:29
believe this was happening. And it was so
3:31
cool because it was Jersey Films too. And
3:33
I knew, I hadn't met Danny right away
3:35
as an intern. He was off making a
3:38
film, but he would call the office every
3:40
day and I would answer the phone. And
3:42
I think I had a pretty heavy accent
3:44
back then, like Jersey accent. It'll slip
3:46
in. You'll catch it a couple times here.
3:49
But he would call and we would talk
3:51
and he would ask me questions. And
3:53
that's how we formed a relationship. And he was
3:55
filming the movie Matilda at the time, which he
3:58
was directing. And it was the final day. of
4:00
shooting and he ended up asking
4:03
his assistant to no longer be his assistant and he's
4:05
like I'll take the kid at the front desk you
4:07
know with the accent and that's how I got my
4:09
in that's how I started working for him and
4:12
it was thrilling it was terrifying
4:14
it was everything I
4:17
could imagine and honestly it was like going
4:19
to the best film school in the
4:21
world because you really I really learned
4:23
how to make movies nuts and bolts
4:25
make movies from the ground up working
4:28
at that company and it was a
4:30
lucky break that led you to incredible
4:32
places yes it was it was a
4:34
it was an incredible opportunity and
4:36
it started out just as being
4:39
an in office assistant and you know
4:41
I worked really really hard and tried
4:43
to figure out the business tried to
4:45
figure out how to be
4:47
an assistant which is challenging you know
4:49
you don't there's no like guidebook to say here's how
4:51
to be a good assistant and a
4:54
lot of its instincts and a lot of it
4:56
is follow-through and you know I just ended up
4:58
working more and more hours and then going into
5:00
you know going on to the put sex with
5:02
him going into the sound mix with him and
5:05
then finally started being able to travel around
5:07
and work you know I drove I drove
5:09
him every day to work and
5:11
just became his assistant there and really learned
5:13
how to make films and worked on many
5:15
different films with him not only at the
5:17
production company at the time but him as
5:19
just an actor which allowed me to when
5:21
he was off studying lines I would go
5:23
sneak around and run around to the AD
5:25
department or I'd run around to the line
5:27
producer or the camera department and I'd sit
5:30
there and just like try to absorb every
5:32
single thing I could and understand how each
5:34
department worked and what they needed to do
5:36
in a day and I really learned the
5:38
most I learned everything there I really did
5:40
and you spent of course now
5:42
decades several decades in the business at
5:44
Paramount Pictures and MGM before Warner Brothers
5:46
when I was struck by something struck
5:49
by something I heard or read about
5:51
Casablanca but back in 1942 when that
5:53
movie was being made here it was
5:56
one of 50 films being made on this lot
5:58
at that time and nobody was there. really thought it
6:00
was particularly special. And then
6:02
of course it became this incredible hit that
6:05
sustained over all these decades. Yeah.
6:08
Is that what movie making is about? I mean, can you ever,
6:10
do you ever know when a movie is going to be a
6:12
bit hit? I don't
6:14
think there's a like a set thing
6:16
knowing what's gonna work and what's not
6:18
gonna work. I think for myself I
6:20
always go at it with the best
6:22
hopes and the best intentions of finding
6:24
the best filmmaker, finding a great story
6:26
that I think the audience wants to
6:28
see and then trying to make it
6:30
the best you can be.
6:33
You know, it's really hard. You
6:35
know, the first thing, it's always funny to me, I always used
6:37
to say this when I was a producer, is like the best
6:39
day and the worst day of your
6:42
career, you know, your moment in making a film is
6:44
the day the director signs on. Because you can sit
6:46
in a room as a producer and develop the script
6:48
and work with the writer and come up with the
6:51
wonderful, most wonderful story and you're there and then all
6:53
of a sudden you get your dream director and they
6:55
come on and they're like, okay, this
6:57
is what it's gonna be and it's the best
6:59
day and the worst day because you have to
7:01
put to rest what your own vision of it
7:03
was and then go into the hands of the director.
7:05
For me, that's one of the greatest moments
7:08
in time is when you get to collaborate with a
7:10
great storyteller and a great
7:12
filmmaker. So, you know, you don't,
7:15
I don't know, there's no, there's movies that
7:17
I thought that I said, oh, this is gonna be the
7:19
one and it wasn't. It's like,
7:22
well, 47 Ronin
7:24
was one of them. You know, it
7:26
had a great script and it was
7:28
super ambitious and it just
7:30
didn't pan out to be what we wanted to
7:32
be. It was, it's
7:35
not what audiences wanted to see, you know,
7:37
and that's okay and that happens and you're
7:39
not gonna pick the right ones all the
7:41
time and then there's a little, you know,
7:43
conversely, there's a little movie that I made
7:45
that changed my career which was called Garden
7:48
State and, you know,
7:50
I read that script twice
7:52
in one night and it spoke to me
7:54
because I was from New Jersey
7:56
and I was a kid who left the
7:58
comforts of home and moved out well. to
8:00
try and chase my dreams, and that's what the character
8:02
was. So I related to it, but I didn't know that
8:04
anyone else was gonna want to see it. And,
8:07
you know, Zach was a first-time
8:09
director. He had been on a
8:11
show for one season on Scrubs,
8:13
and everyone in town passed
8:15
on us, every single person. We went
8:17
to so many companies, and
8:20
they were like, no, he's a first-time director.
8:22
How's he gonna do it? And frankly, you
8:25
know, I had a budget at the time
8:27
of $4 million, and I met this individual
8:29
who said he would finance the film, and
8:32
he said, I'll co-fi it, so he was gonna give
8:34
us half the budget. And we went to
8:36
one studio, and they said, we'll give you the other half
8:38
of the budget, but the deal they were making with us
8:40
was pretty subpar. It wasn't good,
8:42
and we would never see anything. We didn't even know
8:44
if anybody would ever see the movie after that. And
8:47
to Gary Gilbert's credit, he said, if you cut the
8:49
budget in half, I'll finance the whole thing. And I
8:51
did. And I cut the budget down to two and
8:53
a half. I moved into my parents' house in New
8:55
Jersey, because we had no money for me to live.
8:58
And we went and made this
9:00
movie. And for Zach and myself and Natalie
9:03
Portman and Peter Sarsgaard, I mean, we just, we were all
9:05
young, you know, and we didn't know what we were doing.
9:07
And it was magical. It was
9:09
truly one of the most magical experiences
9:11
ever. I used everyone I knew from
9:13
growing up for favors, for locations. My
9:16
mom would cook and bring food for
9:18
craft service. It was just one of those special
9:20
things, but I had no idea if anybody was gonna
9:22
see the movie. So when it sold
9:24
at Sundance in a bidding war, it was super
9:26
gratifying. A bet, yeah. And are there any rules?
9:28
Are there any rules that you could tell budding
9:30
filmmakers or, you know, are there any rules that
9:32
you live by in terms of, I'm gonna do
9:34
this with a movie or this is the kind
9:36
of movie I get, or this movie
9:38
is the kind of movie that is gonna do well? I
9:42
think now more than ever, because
9:44
there is such an expansion of
9:46
where people are receiving and getting
9:49
their content, I think for us
9:51
who believes wholeheartedly
9:54
into the theatrical experience, and when you're putting movies
9:56
out in the theater and you're engaging the audience
9:58
to say, go buy a... ticket, drive out
10:00
of your house, get a babysitter, go see
10:03
this movie. I think you have to have
10:05
intention and I think you have to know
10:07
who the audience is you're going for. And
10:10
if you're a movie for not at least one
10:12
audience, you're a movie for no one. So
10:15
the whole goal is always who
10:18
is this movie going to speak to, who
10:20
are you trying to engage, how can we expand
10:22
that audience? And that's the exciting
10:24
part. You know, for me it always starts
10:26
with the script. Filmmaking is about
10:28
what's on the page, the story and
10:31
the filmmaker. For me it's always about
10:33
what is that filmmaker's vision, what is
10:35
their passion, what is the story they're
10:37
going to tell. That I live
10:39
and die by. I really do. I
10:41
think for budding filmmakers it's always
10:43
about what is
10:45
the story you want to say, who are you
10:47
communicating to and how are you clearly telling
10:50
that story. Well let's talk about
10:52
Barbie. That is a big Warner Brothers hit right
10:54
now. The biggest movie of last year, 1.4 billion
10:57
dollars and counting. Were you surprised
11:00
by that or did you feel it in your bones that
11:02
it was going to work? You
11:04
started to feel it in your bones that was going
11:06
to work but you knew because Greta and
11:09
Noah's script was so special and
11:12
we were privileged when we came in, they had been
11:15
in the middle of shooting so we got to be
11:17
here for halfway through the shoot and
11:19
I went to visit the set the first time
11:21
and I saw just
11:23
this magic and Greta's command of the story
11:25
as a filmmaker and I think she is
11:27
truly one of the most, she is a
11:29
visionary and she is one of the best
11:32
filmmakers working today. I mean for me it
11:34
was like just
11:36
watching her work with the actors and tell
11:38
the story and design and every single
11:40
detail was so special. You knew that
11:42
at the center of it there is
11:44
someone with command and control and vision
11:46
of the storytelling process and that is
11:48
her. And at the time did you
11:50
see it as a feminist movie? Did
11:52
you think it was tapping into the
11:54
zeitgeist? I thought it was a movie
11:56
that had feminist principles to it and
11:59
a movie that... talked about what it
12:01
is to be a woman, but the
12:03
reason why I think the movie connects is because the movie is
12:05
about what it is to be human. And
12:08
what it is to be connecting,
12:10
and what it is to feel, and what it
12:12
is to see people. And I think
12:14
what's so special about Barbie is that it
12:16
speaks to everybody around the world. I
12:18
mean, when we had our first test screening, you
12:21
felt that energy in the audience, you know, and
12:23
we were going through our process
12:25
of posts. And every time we
12:28
dropped a piece of content, or a
12:30
trailer, or a teaser, or an image,
12:32
you just felt that energy around it.
12:34
And I think, you know, what's
12:36
so special, I remember opening weekend, I
12:38
went to the theater on Sunday morning
12:40
because my daughter wanted to see it
12:42
again for the fifth time. And
12:44
she asked my husband to come with us because
12:47
he wasn't able to come to the premiere. She
12:49
was my date for the premiere. She's always my date for everything. But
12:52
we were sitting there, and the lights went
12:54
down, and the music comes up,
12:56
and it's that first image of Barbie, you know,
12:58
of Margot when she's super high,
13:01
tall Barbie. And I saw her settle in, and
13:03
this grin on her face, and I looked at
13:05
my husband, I go, oh, this is
13:07
her Star Wars. I understand. This is E.T.
13:09
for her. This is what it felt like when
13:11
I was her age and went to the theater,
13:13
and the lights went down, and something that I
13:15
felt was made and speaking to me spoke to
13:17
her. That was
13:19
magical. And despite it being,
13:22
you know, clearly a huge commercial hit,
13:24
and the most talked about movie of
13:26
last year, why the snubs? You know,
13:29
no BAFTA Awards. Margot Robbie,
13:31
Greta Gerwig not nominated at the
13:33
Oscars. How did that feel? Well,
13:36
I mean, listen, we're super grateful
13:38
for all the recognition that
13:40
the movie has received, and we're super
13:42
grateful for the support, and we're really
13:45
grateful that it ignited audiences around the
13:47
world, and it's made $1.4 billion
13:50
and has smashed so many
13:52
records. Just, you know,
13:54
Greta's records, box office records, Warner Brothers
13:56
history records. So we're super grateful for
13:58
all of that. Yeah, of
14:01
course it does, you know, of course
14:03
I want to see all
14:05
of them get recognized. They deserve it, you know,
14:07
and I think, listen, I think
14:10
the industry has, we're making a lot
14:12
of strides. We have a long way to go.
14:14
Do you think the Academy voters are sexist? I
14:18
don't want to say that they are sexist. I want
14:20
to say that I wish that
14:22
there was a way
14:24
to make sure that everyone saw every single
14:26
movie that was out there
14:28
and I don't know that that process has sort
14:31
of found its way. Well
14:33
you and your co-chair Michael DeLuca, you took over
14:36
the studio nearly two years ago. Your
14:38
appointment came after Warner Brothers, you know, appeared
14:40
to have lost its way, you know, it
14:42
had spent, you know, perhaps 90 million dollars
14:45
on Batgirl and then Axed It, it lost
14:47
Christopher Nolan, who'd made movies for the studio,
14:49
you know, with the studio for decades, most
14:51
of his career. Steven Spielberg had made his
14:53
last two movies at other studios. Your
14:56
co-chair Michael DeLuca said your vision from
14:58
day one has been to rebuild this
15:01
iconic studio to the heights of its
15:03
glory days. What wrong do you think?
15:07
I think it's challenging, you
15:09
know, I think it's a challenging business,
15:12
it's an ever moving marketplace and I
15:14
can't speak to what happened really here
15:16
before because I wasn't here so I
15:18
can't really answer what went wrong. You
15:21
were looking in from outside. I'm looking in
15:23
from outside, you know, and it's
15:25
hard to judge other people's houses unless you're
15:27
inside that house. So I think
15:29
that from the very first meeting that
15:32
David Zaslov had with us, we
15:34
sat down with David and Mike and I talked
15:36
about our filmmaker approach, how an
15:39
eclectic slate and what we believe
15:41
in and David was so
15:43
supportive and on board from the
15:45
beginning and what David said to us, I want
15:47
to bring the glory back to Warner Brothers. I
15:49
want to bring the best and brightest storytellers here.
15:52
We have the best IP in the world. We
15:54
have so many different businesses that we can, you
15:57
know, have storytellers tell any kind of
15:59
story they want to tell. whether it's
16:01
at HBO, whether it's at CNN, whether
16:03
it's on the Discovery networks, on Warner
16:06
Studios with Warner Television. It's an incredible
16:08
group of creative leadership here.
16:11
And David, he said get the
16:13
best talent, I want them here. And one of them was
16:15
Tom Cruise. We said
16:18
Tom had made amazing films at Warner Brothers and
16:20
he's been working at Paramount for a long time and
16:22
we wanted to figure out a way how do we
16:24
do that? And we did. And how did
16:26
you do it? How do you woo someone like Tim Cruise?
16:28
What do you do? Is
16:30
it a lot of phone calls? Is it meetings? Is it lunches? What
16:33
is it? It's meetings. It's really thoughtful
16:35
and intentional discussions about where we see
16:37
the business and where we see the
16:39
audience and what kind of stories that
16:41
a global audience want to see. And
16:44
that's what Tom cares about. I mean,
16:46
he is an incredible human being, an
16:48
incredible storyteller and producer. And
16:51
I think it's just,
16:53
it's the lucky timing of everything
16:55
where we as a studio are
16:57
leaning into the theatrical experience. We
17:00
believe in theatrical. We believe in putting
17:02
movies around the world everywhere
17:05
and then making sure they're showing
17:07
around the world everywhere and then showing up
17:10
on HBO later and making sure that we're
17:12
maximizing all these stories in every single window
17:14
possible. And I think we just are like-minded
17:16
with Tom in that way. So what's he
17:18
gonna make with you? I mean, we know
17:20
he's going into space with the universe potentially.
17:23
So I'm missing an impossible elsewhere. What's he
17:25
gonna do with you? Well, the first film
17:27
is with Alejandro Gonzalez-Enri too, I'm
17:30
so excited about it. I've
17:33
had the privilege of working with Alejandro three
17:35
times before. So for me, this is like
17:38
a dream come true. One of my favorite actors
17:40
of all time and my favorite directors of all
17:42
time collaborating on a story. And there's more to
17:44
come. We have a few things that I'm not
17:46
ready to talk about yet. Can you tell us
17:48
anything about that movie they're making? No.
17:51
No. But it's not gonna be set
17:53
in space. It is not set in space, I will tell you
17:55
that. And I think it's a movie that will, deserves
17:59
to be seen on the... biggest screens possible all around
18:01
the world. Will Tom Cruise be on a
18:03
motorbike in an aeroplane, showing
18:05
off his muscles somewhere? I'm
18:08
not going to find this out, am I? No,
18:10
not today. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. But
18:13
it's exciting. Okay, great, sounds brilliant. You were
18:15
talking earlier about your boss, David Zaslav. He
18:18
said recently, the film side of the business
18:20
had been underperforming. Lots of people read that
18:22
to me in the colour purple, which had
18:24
reportedly lost $40 million. Aquaman
18:26
2 didn't do the business that Warner
18:28
had hoped for. The
18:31
last time Warner Brothers won Best Picture at the
18:33
Academy Awards was more than 10 years ago with
18:35
Argo in 2013. What
18:37
does that say about the studio? I
18:40
mean, what does that say about the Academy
18:42
Awards, really? Because they've made some wonderful movies
18:45
and they've had multiple nominations over the years,
18:47
you know, in that decade. So I
18:49
think that, I think what it
18:51
says about the studio is that you try,
18:53
like I said earlier, you try with the
18:56
best intention to make the best movies possible
18:58
that are gonna, and then also market them
19:00
the best way you can and then get
19:02
them out to the audience and on the
19:04
best date that you can. I think, you
19:06
know, I think The Colour Purple is a
19:08
beautiful film and I wish it had found
19:11
a more broadened audience, but it found its
19:13
audience and now it can be seen where
19:15
the audience wants to see it. It's
19:17
now on max and it's doing really well
19:20
on max and, you know, that
19:22
part's great. I think with Aquaman, you
19:25
know, I think having it at the end of
19:27
the year was a great time to release that
19:29
film alongside our walker. I think the fact that
19:32
we kept all three movies in the year at
19:34
the end of the year for exhibition was
19:36
a very bold and intentional decision
19:39
that we made and we
19:41
felt that that was the best time to release all
19:43
three of those films. Okay, and you
19:45
have a correct record for winning Oscars.
19:48
Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant. What's
19:51
your recipe for Oscar glory? Directors.
19:54
Always the director. The US director. So that's
19:56
what your USP here is at Warner
19:59
to take them back into it. And even on any
20:01
kind of movie, I think it's important. I
20:03
think you should have the best director directing comedy, the
20:05
best director directing sci-fi, the best director. I mean, I
20:08
think it's all about you're in
20:10
the hands of that storyteller and they
20:12
are the ones that are capturing the
20:14
images. They are the ones getting
20:16
the performances. They are the ones creating
20:19
the narrative and the story alongside
20:21
the writers. But it's really in
20:23
the hands of the filmmakers. So
20:25
I think the recipe is filmmakers.
20:27
And of course, one of those key filmmakers, Greta Gerwig, are we
20:30
going to get a Barbie too? I
20:32
mean, we'd love to. Can
20:34
you see what the plot would be? I was trying to
20:36
work it out. Barbie works out in the real world that the
20:38
rat ways isn't for her and tries to go back to
20:40
Barbie land. I don't know what it would be. I
20:43
think there's a lot of people speculating about what it
20:45
can be. Are you talking to Greta about Barbie too?
20:47
Yeah, we're always talking about it. I think right now
20:49
we're just so happy this
20:51
week to be celebrating Barbie success
20:53
and Barbie at the Oscars this weekend. You
20:56
brought back the old Warner tradition and
20:58
this involves Margaret. I'm going to follow the
21:00
Barbie tradition. The Barbie tradition, right now and
21:02
exactly, of giving big talent that you're working
21:05
with the keys to the lot. I mean,
21:07
famously co-founder Jack Warner did it with Marilyn
21:09
Monroe. You recently gave Barbie
21:11
producer and star Margot Robbie a key. That's
21:13
because you've done a deal with her company,
21:15
which is called Lucky Chap. Just explain about
21:18
the key and how did you
21:20
seal the deal with Margot Robbie? Well, it was so
21:22
thrilling. I've known Margot a long time and then just
21:24
had the privilege of working with her on Barbie. She
21:28
and her partners, Tom Ackerly and
21:30
Josie McNamara are just amazing producers.
21:32
I think they are
21:34
just wonderful at development. They're wonderful about
21:36
the nuts and bolts of producing and
21:39
they're great about finding those new voices,
21:41
whether it was Emerald Fennell that they
21:43
did with Salburn and with Promising Young
21:45
Women and luring
21:48
Greta Gerwig to do Barbie. I just think
21:50
they're tremendous producers. During the
21:52
process of making the film of Barbie, we
21:54
were talking with Greta and her partners about
21:57
making Warner Brothers their home. They are... they
22:00
are exactly the types of filmmakers
22:02
that we want to be here
22:04
at the studio. We feel like their
22:06
collision of art and commerce is
22:08
just magical and we think it is,
22:11
they're so smart and we asked
22:13
them to join us here and we're so lucky that they said
22:15
yes. And what does the key mean? What is it? Well,
22:18
it's a symbolism that I think Jack
22:20
Warner gave several years ago when new
22:23
talent would sign, that was back in
22:25
the old studio system. So when new
22:27
talent would sign deals and become players
22:29
at the specific studio, he
22:31
would give them a key, welcoming them
22:33
to Warner Brothers. So Mike had seen
22:35
it, he had read a story about
22:37
it and he found a couple of
22:40
the old keys on eBay actually and
22:42
we bought them and we're now gonna
22:44
make it a tradition. So it's Margaux's
22:46
and eBay key. Margaux's is
22:48
actually Marilyn Monroe's key. Wow.
22:51
Yes. Well that's brilliant because I've seen
22:54
that beautiful footage of her getting her key. It
22:56
is beautiful, right? Fantastic. Yeah, super exciting. You
22:58
can buy that on eBay, Marilyn Monroe's key. Who put
23:00
that up for sale? I don't know. I don't know.
23:03
I don't know how, you know, there's so many
23:06
collectors in the world for all of this stuff,
23:08
so you never know. Okay, well let's talk about
23:10
Christopher Nolan, the man of the moment. He spent
23:12
most of his career at Warner, then he walked
23:14
away in 2020 before your time. After
23:17
the studio decided to premiere a year's worth
23:19
of films on its streaming service, he's
23:22
since praised you for what you're doing, he says
23:24
it's encouraging. Do you want Christopher Nolan
23:26
back at Warner Brothers? Of course. So
23:29
what are you doing to try and persuade him back? It's
23:31
up to Christopher Nolan and Emma. I
23:33
think they are tremendous artists and filmmakers,
23:36
and we've had a wonderful dialogue with
23:38
them since we came to the
23:40
studio. I'm so excited for him and Emma with
23:42
Oppenheimer. I think it's a brilliant film. What
23:45
does the success of it say to you? It's interesting, isn't it?
23:47
Because, you know, in a way people
23:49
are talking about how it's reshaping what constitutes blockbuster
23:51
entertainment. And film about a theoretical physicist on paper
23:53
doesn't necessarily make you think it's gonna do as
23:55
well as it did. I think the audience knows
23:57
it's a Christopher Nolan film. I
24:00
think they have a relationship with his storytelling
24:02
and they know that he's going to tell
24:04
a wonderful story and a
24:06
complex story and I think they show
24:08
up when they feel
24:10
like it's going to feel like
24:12
an event. And I think Oppenheimer absolutely felt
24:15
like an event. And clearly
24:17
we all know why he left. He left at
24:19
the time because of this anger that lots of
24:21
directors felt around this business with the theatrical window.
24:23
And they make the films for the big screen.
24:25
What he told me was, when
24:28
I interviewed Chris Nolan, he told me the amount of time
24:30
between a film cinema release and it being
24:32
put on a streamer should absolutely be longer.
24:34
He said, it's not good for the health
24:36
of cinemas otherwise. Do you agree with him?
24:39
I do. I do think
24:41
that not every movie needs
24:43
to stay in the cinema perhaps as
24:45
long. I don't think
24:47
it's like one size fits all. I
24:49
definitely don't feel that. But I do
24:51
feel like absolutely a movie, seen in
24:53
a theater, creating that
24:56
cultural experience, the communal experience,
24:58
I just think it is,
25:01
you cannot experience that kind of
25:03
storytelling anywhere else. You're
25:05
in a room, it's dark, you're with an audience,
25:07
you're laughing, you're crying, you're getting scared together,
25:10
you're experiencing something together. You then leave, you
25:12
go have a coffee or a dinner and
25:15
you talk about that film and you talk about how it
25:17
made you feel. And I just think
25:19
it shows up in all the other downstream windows with
25:21
a different kind of feeling. So did you think Warren
25:23
got that wrong when it came to Chris and then?
25:25
I think, I can't judge what they were doing. I
25:28
think they were trying to adapt to whatever
25:30
was going on. We were in the
25:32
middle of a global pandemic. I can
25:35
only speak to- Because I lost that biggest star. Yes. And
25:38
that's super unfortunate, but I think that
25:42
I can only speak to what my experience
25:44
was being president
25:46
of a studio during a global pandemic
25:48
that didn't have a streaming service as
25:50
a backstop. We, Mike and
25:53
I were at MGM at the time and as
25:55
you know, very, you know, it was very
25:57
out there. We moved to James Bond four
25:59
times. And that was a
26:01
considered and very intentional effort by
26:05
all of our leadership at, and
26:09
in concert with Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson.
26:12
That's what we did. And that's what we
26:14
chose to do. But I think each company at
26:16
the time was doing what they thought was
26:18
what they had to do. And you know, it's hard
26:20
to speak to or judge what someone else did. And
26:22
right now you've got this, you know, your first major
26:25
hit of 2024, June part two. Huge
26:27
opening weekend in America. And
26:30
you know, June part one, I think, was released
26:32
on streaming on the same day as in cinema.
26:35
Has Warner learned its lesson? When will June two
26:37
start being streamed? We
26:40
don't set the window. You know, we don't
26:42
talk about that from the beginning. We open
26:44
the movies and we let them play and
26:46
we see what's best. We iterate
26:48
all the time. So do you expect it to spend quite
26:50
a lot of time in cinema before it goes on the
26:52
skin? I think it's gonna be in cinemas for a while,
26:55
you know. I think it's gonna play in cinemas for a
26:57
while. And then, you know, what we did at MGM at
26:59
the time, and I think we do here as well, is
27:01
there's the P VOD stop afterwards where, you know, the movie
27:03
is available and then it shows up on S VOD. So
27:06
I think my job
27:08
is to maximize each movie in
27:11
the best way possible. Our job as distributors
27:13
and marketers is to make sure that every
27:16
time a movie shows up in its different
27:18
window, that it finds a new audience and,
27:20
you know, try to monetize the film the
27:22
best we can for everyone. But
27:24
that was a really interesting event last night about AI,
27:27
actually in the commercial advertising
27:29
world last night. But clearly
27:32
AI has been something, you know, we heard about it in
27:34
the strike, you know, something that people are worried about in
27:37
the movie business. What's
27:40
your feeling about AI and how it
27:42
might iterate in this movie business? I
27:45
think if AI can help us
27:47
create better efficiencies in the post-production
27:49
process and the production process, I'm
27:51
very excited about that. And that's
27:53
not replacing humans. That is just
27:56
in the way we do visual effects, the
27:58
way we, you know, create the
28:01
pipeline and delivery and all of that kind of
28:03
stuff. I think I'm excited by
28:05
it and I'm open to it. I wanna
28:07
understand it better. I think we all need
28:09
to understand it better. Do I think that
28:11
AI is ever gonna be able to feel
28:13
emotional or create
28:16
love or feel love? No,
28:18
maybe when I'm long gone, but
28:22
I don't see that in the foreseeable future.
28:24
I think what AI is doing in so
28:26
many other industries medicine and things like that
28:28
that I read about, I think it's super
28:30
exciting what's going on and we'll see how
28:32
it works for the film business. I guess,
28:35
because if AI does come for entry-level jobs,
28:37
then that would cut out the kind of
28:39
way that you got into the business. Yeah,
28:41
but I don't know. Call
28:44
me crazy. I can't see like, I think
28:46
back of me starting like driving to my
28:48
work and sitting there and answering the phone
28:50
and getting coffee for people.
28:52
I mean, I guess, but I can't imagine
28:54
it anytime soon. And we were
28:56
talking earlier about, you've moved
28:59
back, you've moved Tom Cruise. Obviously everybody
29:01
would love to have Christopher Nolan in
29:03
their studio. How does that work?
29:07
Are there other people? I was reading, for
29:09
example, about J.K. Rowling, who has one of, as
29:11
I understand it, one of the kind of A plus
29:14
talents that Warner Brothers have
29:17
made some incredible hit movies of the
29:19
Harry Potter and then Fantastic Beasts. Yes,
29:22
now there's a TV series in development
29:24
or happening, but clearly that relationship has
29:26
been tested over recent
29:28
years. Are you trying to repair ties
29:30
with J.K. Rowling? Yeah, I
29:33
think we're in a really good place with J.K.
29:35
Rowling. I think that David went over there right
29:37
when he got here and sat down and talked
29:40
to her and really listened to
29:42
her and heard what worked before, what
29:44
didn't work before. And I think he was
29:46
really thoughtful about it all. And now my
29:48
colleagues, Casey Boyes and Channing Dungy are working
29:50
on the series with her. And I think
29:52
it's super exciting. Do you think there'll ever
29:54
be another Harry Potter film? Or is
29:56
that it? The book's a don. No, I don't think, I would
29:59
never say it. done. They're
30:01
making the books for a
30:03
series. So I think we'll see. There's
30:05
going to be a whole new generation of fans. Super
30:08
exciting. And I know, David, as you said,
30:10
went to see her. Did it feel
30:13
like a relationship that needed mending? I
30:16
think should one of you be more loyal
30:18
to her, I suppose, through this period? I
30:20
think they are. And I think
30:23
that all relationships, especially
30:25
when you're new people coming into a
30:27
company, you have to listen and you
30:30
have to hear what felt
30:32
good to people and what didn't feel good to people.
30:34
And you have to understand
30:36
and try and forge your own
30:39
relationship. It's kind of like
30:41
that thing when you're a kid. You
30:43
don't just deserve respect because you have the
30:45
seat. You have to earn respect from people
30:47
and artists. And I think trust,
30:50
you have to earn trust from people. It's just
30:52
like being a little kid. When you go to
30:54
school and your teacher just expected you to trust
30:56
them or respect them. You have
30:58
to earn kids trust. You have to earn teacher's
31:00
trust. You have to earn your parents' trust. I think it's
31:03
about being thoughtful and also
31:05
being transparent. I think the
31:08
more transparent that people are
31:10
in this situation, in these
31:12
businesses, in the arts, in making
31:14
movies, the better. And I think it just
31:17
provides a better, healthy atmosphere to create.
31:20
I suppose it's difficult in the world that we
31:22
live in now where she has taken quite a
31:24
political stance or she has political views or views
31:26
that she believes are right.
31:28
And then you probably have a whole load of staff and
31:30
other people and the people who work on the Harry Potter
31:32
films who were offended by what she said. And you've got
31:34
to manage that. Yeah. I mean, I
31:38
think you always have to
31:40
manage things. It's just the world we live in
31:42
today. And I think she is an
31:45
amazing storyteller. I think her books
31:47
have touched so many generations
31:49
I saw what they did to my own
31:51
child and that reading between parent and child.
31:53
And I think it's super exciting
31:55
that Casey and Channing are about to
31:58
create a whole new. story.
32:00
You know, there's so many things they'll be able to do in a
32:02
season that, you know, just because it's longer
32:05
that they, that you're not able to do in the
32:07
film. I mean, David Hayman is still involved in the,
32:09
in the, in the, uh, the series as well, which
32:11
will be super great and exciting. I
32:13
used the term big guns earlier. It feels like quite a
32:16
male term anyway, but you know, in the
32:18
movie world, the big guns are often male. Um,
32:21
you're a significant player here. Donna Langley,
32:23
who I've interviewed before is running universal.
32:26
Are things changing because, you know,
32:28
I, I just saw today, a UCLA
32:31
diversity report came out, you know, their
32:33
annual diversity in Hollywood and it's still
32:35
the case, you know, hardly any women
32:37
directors making big budget movies. I think
32:39
of the hundred million budget movies, only
32:42
three women directors, including Greta, um, 25 men,
32:44
uh, and women of
32:47
color, you know, continually left out.
32:50
Are things changing in Hollywood? I ask people this all
32:52
the time and they say they are, but then the
32:54
numbers come out again and they haven't. I know it's
32:57
hard. It's frustrating, right?
32:59
Because all these reports come out and it
33:01
feels like when you feel like you're doing
33:03
the work, which I feel that we, we
33:05
are here at Warner's, um, you
33:09
think that it's going to be different and
33:11
it hasn't quite grown to the level, but
33:13
I think a lot of this has to
33:15
start with education and, and it has to
33:18
start with the younger education. And that goes
33:20
for every aspect of the business where we
33:22
are lacking diversity and, and
33:24
women in certain job roles,
33:26
whether that's directing, whether that's
33:28
cinematography, whether that is visual
33:30
effects or sound. I think,
33:34
I think traditionally there are certain
33:36
roles that women gravitated
33:38
towards because there was no
33:40
one in those positions before them that
33:43
they saw that looked like them or people,
33:45
you know, people of diverse backgrounds felt that
33:47
they had an entryway into the business. So
33:50
I think concentrating on education and
33:52
I think the academy is trying to do
33:54
that and different kinds
33:57
of programs like the Hollywood reporters women's
33:59
program. where it's, I
34:01
did that one year and you team
34:03
with, you have a mentee who's a
34:05
young woman, you know, there's these kids
34:07
there in high school just outside of
34:10
Los Angeles, like very close, just in
34:12
little suburbs around, and they can see
34:14
the Hollywood sign, but the idea of
34:16
getting into a job is so far-fetched
34:18
for them. They don't even know that
34:20
that's a possibility for them. And these
34:22
kinds of programs that allow these young
34:24
high school students to say, hey, I
34:27
can be part of a storytelling experience. I don't
34:29
have to be Greta to do it.
34:31
I don't have to be, you know, I
34:34
supported this young woman who had
34:36
a wonderful film out this year, A.B. Rockwell, 1001.
34:40
I don't have to be her to do that, to
34:42
be a storyteller. I can work in craft service. I
34:44
can work in sound. I can work in camera. I
34:46
just think education is the most
34:49
important thing, and that's how we're gonna change
34:51
the numbers. And clearly it makes a difference
34:53
once people are in positions of power.
34:55
Correct. I was interviewing Emerald Sunell
34:57
the other day, about Saltburn, and
34:59
she was saying on that film, they'd made sure
35:01
that more than 50% of the people
35:04
behind the camera were women, and that had meant a lot to
35:06
her. For someone like you in
35:08
your position, is that what you're also trying to
35:10
do? Absolutely. Quotas or? No,
35:12
it's not quotas. I think it's
35:14
just, I think it's being,
35:17
again, I keep using this word intentional, but
35:19
I think that's what we have to be
35:21
now more than ever in this
35:23
marketplace that we're in, and in this storytelling
35:26
atmosphere we're in. I think
35:29
it's important to, I'm
35:33
not saying you have to hire someone because
35:35
they're a woman or from a diverse background,
35:37
but you have to create opportunity, and you
35:39
have to have people go
35:42
in there and pitch themselves and give them the opportunity
35:44
and let them know that it's okay to come in
35:46
and pitch yourself. And you may not get one job,
35:49
but you may get the other job. And
35:51
it's all a networking business as well, and
35:53
it's all about working
35:55
with artists and creators
35:57
and technicians, and that's how you- You
36:00
build the family and you grow together. I
36:02
mean, I think, you know, I've
36:05
always been intentional about it from the time
36:07
I was young. I've worked with many female
36:10
directors and people of color and I
36:12
think that it is, I just
36:15
think it's imperative to tell different stories
36:17
from different lenses with different perspectives. There's
36:19
no, that's the world. The world is
36:21
told in, you know, everybody walks through
36:24
life with a different perspective. Entertainment
36:27
and storytelling should be represented for everyone. So
36:29
when you see, you know, every year the Oscar
36:31
list comes out, no women's
36:33
ever won Basim cinematography, Oscar,
36:36
only one woman on the directing list this year, same
36:38
as, you know, previous years.
36:41
What do you think when you see that? I think we have a lot
36:43
of work to do. And I think
36:45
I have a lot of hope though, for the future.
36:47
I feel like, you know,
36:49
we have some wonderful, I mean, I didn't,
36:53
when I was growing up in the, like when I was starting
36:55
to try to come into the business, there
36:57
weren't a lot of women directors. I
36:59
didn't, I didn't know that that was maybe a path
37:01
for me. There was writers, but
37:03
there were a lot of executives. There were
37:05
a lot of female executives and a lot
37:08
of female producers. So like reading about Dawn
37:10
Steele, reading about Sherri Lansing, you know, reading
37:12
about Julia Phillips, the producer who did this
37:14
thing, you know, reading about
37:16
these women, Gayle Ann Heard, and Linda Oates.
37:19
These were groundbreaking people that, you know,
37:21
broke barriers and came in and told
37:24
great stories. And a lot of them stories
37:26
that featured really, you know, complex
37:28
women at the center of them. So that
37:31
was inspirational for me. And then, and
37:33
then I, you know, listen, I was lucky. One
37:35
of Danny's partners is Stacy Sherr, who, you know,
37:37
produced Pulp Fiction and Hateful Aids.
37:41
And she's, she's an extraordinary producer and I learned
37:43
from her and she mentored me. So I was
37:45
really lucky to have a mentor like that. Then
37:48
when I went to Paramount, I was really lucky
37:50
to have him to get to work for Sherri
37:52
Lansing for a year. We
37:54
learned so much from them. I was really lucky
37:56
early on getting to know Donna Langley and getting
37:59
to know Mary Parrish. I was slightly, you
38:01
know, they were already executives when I started
38:03
as an assistant and they were always supportive
38:05
to me and I was able
38:07
to go to them and ask for advice. I
38:09
try to be that way for the next generation.
38:11
That's important to me. I want to give back.
38:14
I feel very lucky and blessed
38:16
for my career and for both
38:19
the male and female mentors I had. And
38:21
I just think it's my responsibility and it's
38:23
imperative. And, you know, eventually maybe
38:26
I'll retire, but probably not. You're probably going to have
38:29
to wheel me off of a set. You just keep
38:31
on going. Absolutely. I just love it too much. Yeah,
38:33
fair enough. I would too if I'm sure. If I
38:35
was going to. We're from the UK.
38:38
We're here in Hollywood, but let's
38:40
talk about the UK. You're expanding your studios
38:42
in the UK at Leaston. The British Chancellor
38:44
Jeremy Hunt said the UK will be
38:46
second only to Hollywood for studio space next
38:49
year. What makes the UK a good place
38:51
for you to make movies in? Well, you
38:53
have amazing crews. I
38:55
think the craftsmanship is extraordinary. And
38:59
there's a great, you know, great
39:01
incentives to go there. And I think,
39:04
you know, everything has, you know,
39:06
visual effects, sound studios, color
39:10
studios, the big stages we have at Leaston.
39:12
I just think everything's there. It's state of
39:14
the art and it's just a wonderful place
39:16
to work. Are we cheaper too? I
39:20
don't know that you're cheaper. I just think you have
39:22
a different, you know, tax incentive than a lot of
39:24
the states do here. And
39:27
I'm interested in what you make of the argument
39:29
you were talking earlier about, you know, that kind
39:31
of collective experience of going to see movies. And
39:33
yet, you know, there is also an argument that cinema just
39:36
no longer plays such a key
39:38
role in pop culture. You know,
39:40
Barbenheimer aside, you know, video games,
39:42
TikTok are arguably more important for
39:44
multiple generations. TV viewing for the
39:47
Oscars has gone down, you know,
39:49
for several years. Is it
39:51
you picking up? Is it a sign that
39:54
people are less interested in cinema? I don't
39:56
think they're less interested. I think I think
39:58
cinema has struggled over the last. several years
40:00
because we've had quite a few
40:02
things happen. We had a global
40:04
pandemic and last year
40:06
we unfortunately had the strike and
40:09
I think that the
40:11
consistency of the
40:13
movie-going experience got delayed
40:15
because of these two very big events.
40:17
I think the more we create stories
40:19
that people want to go to the
40:22
theater and see they're going to go.
40:24
They didn't stop going years ago after
40:26
the global pandemics. They
40:28
didn't stop going to theater in the
40:30
1800s when there were global pandemics. They
40:32
still want that kind of energy and
40:35
communal experience. I think it's
40:37
about the more, hopefully
40:39
this year you'll see a lot of movies
40:42
got pushed to the back half of this
40:44
year. We had a really barren first quarter
40:46
in exhibition because
40:48
of the strikes and let's see what
40:50
happens. I think it's super exciting. Dune
40:54
2 is just so wonderful that it's
40:56
igniting audiences around the world wanting to
40:58
go see it. There's more
41:00
than just Barbenheimer. There were Super Mario
41:02
Brothers last year. There was Sound of
41:04
Freedom last year. There was Five
41:09
Night at Freddy's last year. There
41:11
were several films that ignited audiences
41:13
that they wanted to go see.
41:15
Where are you on duration? Casablanca
41:18
was only one hour 42. Barbeat 12
41:20
minutes longer than that. But we've got
41:22
Killers of the Flower Moon over three
41:25
hours. Oppenheimer, three hours. I spoke
41:27
to Sir Ridley Scott about this. He talked
41:30
about squeaky bum time. He thinks after about
41:32
two hours people just start moving. Are just
41:34
films getting a bit too long? Some of
41:36
them are long. Yes, some
41:38
of them are too long. But I
41:43
think that you can't say every movie needs to
41:45
be 90 minutes or every movie should be three
41:47
hours. But do you say that
41:49
to your direct handle? We work with the
41:51
filmmakers and say I work closely with the
41:53
filmmakers when I feel like something's too long.
41:55
We say this feels like the
41:57
pace here or this isn't very good. working
42:00
in this section and we have wonderful tools
42:02
with audiences to see where they get a
42:05
little uncomfortable at times. But at the end of
42:07
the day, what
42:10
is the filmmaker's vision and how do we communicate
42:13
the story they're trying to tell in the right amount
42:15
of time? I'm interested in how
42:17
you balance, because clearly you're in a very
42:19
creative industry as a very creative person. But
42:21
equally, you're in charge of the money and
42:23
the economics. How do you
42:25
balance that with filmmakers who want to go
42:27
really long, who want to spend hundreds of
42:29
millions? Well, I think, and
42:31
I can't speak for everyone else, I think Mike
42:34
and I, our unique
42:36
perspective on being chairman of the
42:38
studio is we've also been producers.
42:40
So a lot of the filmmakers that we work
42:42
with, they know that we come
42:45
from a place with best intentions about
42:47
the movie. And we try
42:49
to very early on in the process with
42:51
filmmakers, we work really closely with them, determining
42:53
what that budget of the film needs to
42:56
be and being disciplined about the budget. And
42:58
we're not trying to cut them just to
43:01
cut them. We're not trying to give them
43:03
too much just to overindulge. We give the
43:05
right amount of money for that particular film.
43:07
And are there difficult conversations at home? Of
43:09
course they are. Sometimes they're really difficult conversations.
43:11
But like I said, if you're transparent and
43:14
you stay upfront, this is what we think
43:16
the budget should be. And
43:18
we work together to get there. They know
43:20
we're coming from a place of, we approach
43:22
everything as like producers. That's just the way
43:24
Mike and I do it. And
43:27
we're never going to change. We're never
43:29
going to be any different. So I
43:31
think the conversations sometimes go down a
43:33
bit easier because the filmmakers know we've
43:35
been on the ground in the trenches,
43:38
sweating it out as producers. And we
43:40
understand the challenges that they face every
43:42
day. And we've all been in
43:44
the cinema watching some amazing film and then someone next
43:46
to us is sitting on their phone. Oh yeah. Cinema
43:49
etiquette. Where are you with that? No one should be on their
43:51
phones. What do you say when someone is? Please
43:53
put your phone down. You do say that. I
43:56
go to the cinema almost. I try to go almost every
43:58
weekend. You know, my daughter. and I love going,
44:00
my husband loves to go. We
44:04
try to see everything in the theater. It's really important
44:06
to us. It's really important to me. I
44:09
have to say, I haven't noticed a lot of
44:11
people on the phones lately. Like, I took, when
44:14
my daughter and I went to see Mean Girls, you would think that
44:18
there'd be more kids on there, like, messing
44:20
around on the phones. And I didn't see that they
44:22
were engaged. OK. And my last question for you is,
44:25
as we said, in Warner Brothers, you've been here
44:27
for a while now, but with many more years
44:29
to go, I'm sure, with
44:32
the Academy Awards heading towards us, what
44:35
just sum up what you're doing to make
44:37
sure that in the future, you're sitting in
44:39
that Dolby theater in next year, the year
44:41
after, the year after that, with your film
44:43
winning Best Picture? What
44:45
am I doing? Trying to find the
44:48
best scripts possible, and
44:50
really trying to build an eclectic slate. Mike and
44:53
I are building an eclectic slate here, where we
44:55
try to make different kinds
44:57
of movies, different budget levels with
44:59
world-class storytellers. And I think
45:02
that's the best you can do, is try to
45:04
find the best stories possible that are commercial, that
45:07
are artistic, that, you know,
45:11
where commerce and art meet each
45:13
other. Come up, please. Thank you
45:15
very much. Thank you for having me. All right. Do
45:20
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