0:00

Step into the world of the estate,

0:03

where New Year's Eve 1973 held the darkest of secrets.

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A man's final words. A

0:10

web of deception. And host Alex

0:12

Estrada's quest for the truth. Leave

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a 5-star Apple Podcast review for

0:17

an exclusive Q&A seat with Alex and

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0:28

Want to dive deeper? Visit

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for more info. Time's ticking. The

0:37

estate. Listen. Review.

0:40

Engage. Leave your review

0:42

today on Apple Podcast and unlock

0:44

a world of suspense, secrets

0:46

and the chance to interact with a host

0:49

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0:52

Hello, I'm Evelin Uribe and I was part of the production

0:55

team on The Estate.

0:56

Welcome to our third bonus episode of the season.

1:00

Today you will listen to Angelina

1:03

and Calvin as they navigate the streets of

1:05

Stockton, visiting the

1:07

key locations that form the background of our

1:09

story. From downtown to the spots where the liquor

1:12

stores were. This tape was originally

1:14

four and a half hours long, capturing

1:19

Angelina's first trip

1:21

to Stockton as she discovered the city and delved

1:23

into the story of Calvin

1:26

Jones and Rosalío Estrada. Here are some fragments of Angelina

1:29

and Calvin's ride-along. Enjoy

1:31

the episode.

1:46

It

1:48

is Wednesday at 9.45.

1:51

I'm headed out the door to go see a Mr. Calvin Jones.

1:59

I love

2:03

you, Lucas.

2:07

Okay. So

2:14

what I need to do here is just go straight. Use

2:16

the left

2:20

two lanes to merge

2:22

onto I-57.

2:25

Where

2:28

is Mr. Calvin at? We

2:31

got Saccoz-El Gruyente here on the right. Is

2:34

this Mr. Calvin?

2:38

Hello, Mr. Calvin. Good.

2:41

I am so sorry I'm running late

2:43

this morning. Are you

2:45

leaving? No, I'm just running late.

2:48

Okay, I was nervous. I thought maybe Ms. Deborah kicked

2:50

you out or something. I

2:53

did, too. I see you here on

2:55

this street corner with a bag of clothes.

2:58

Yeah, we got to take some. That's

3:02

good. Okay. Should I park

3:05

or? I'll just walk right out. Okay.

3:08

Okay. I'll just walk right

3:10

out. Okay, great. I'll walk

3:13

in front right here. Okay. Sounds

3:15

good. Tell your wife I say hi.

3:23

Would you come back and

3:25

guess we can start always to start a route with

3:27

you? Okay, you tell me the route,

3:30

sir. Also,

3:33

I am rolling, by the way, just so you know. Okay.

3:36

What I was thinking is I

3:38

need to understand that.

3:43

And so what are some

3:45

major places in South Boston?

3:48

Maybe where is that? Where did you used to

3:50

live

3:50

when you met Rosie? Right

3:53

around the corner. I do. Great.

3:56

Everything is in this area. Everything is in this area. We

3:58

should have went walking instead. Did

4:01

you live here really your whole life right here in South

4:03

Stockton?

4:03

Yes, a

4:05

poster at the history. Went

4:08

through a redevelopment,

4:12

moved up this way, you know.

4:16

A little freeway came

4:18

through. So there

4:20

are some beautiful buildings

4:22

here in South Stockton. Beautiful

4:25

old buildings. Look at that apartment building. That's

4:27

like a beautiful, it almost looks like a cream

4:30

brick

4:31

on this corner with these

4:33

nice balconies. It's a different type of architecture

4:36

than I've really seen in other parts

4:38

of Stockton. Yeah, this is

4:41

the part of Stockton where as a young

4:44

person, you

4:46

want to turn right at this corner that

4:49

we couldn't come to. Why?

4:53

It was just

4:53

off limits to black and brown people.

4:56

Oh, was this White Stockton?

4:57

Yep. Magnolia

5:02

Historic District. It

5:05

certainly isn't White Stockton anymore. No, not

5:07

anymore. Okay, this

5:09

is a coming up business. Mr.

5:12

Michaels used to be office.

5:14

This is right here. On

5:16

this corner. Okay,

5:17

right here. Right

5:21

here. Right here. Describe

5:32

to me where we are. Well,

5:34

I guess this used to be downtown, more

5:38

or less downtown Stockton. And

5:41

I'd say middle of Stockton right now.

5:43

Can you describe it a little bit to me? Like

5:45

what does it look like? Today

5:48

or back then? Back then and today.

5:51

This was the most commercial, where

5:54

mostly your attorney's office was,

5:56

doctor's office. All those things

5:59

used to be.

5:59

in this part of town because it was

6:02

closed to the courthouse. It was only like four

6:04

blocks away.

6:06

So this was like a business for

6:09

doctors, lawyers, architects,

6:13

professional area, and

6:15

yet professional people lived in the house

6:18

around here.

6:18

But you said something interesting that back

6:20

in the day. We never came here

6:23

unless we went to a doctor somewhere downtown

6:27

down here. But as far as coming here

6:29

just to visit

6:32

the park and stuff, no, we never came

6:34

here. We just didn't do it.

6:38

It was kind of like knowing that

6:41

this wasn't for us not

6:43

to play, not to enjoy,

6:47

I guess. We just know

6:49

our place back there.

6:51

All right, let's take a look at Dr.

6:54

or Mr. Attorney

6:56

Michael's office. Okay. Here's

6:59

his office right here.

7:02

This was a driveway.

7:05

That's where you went through. I'll

7:08

show you where Lee June Williams lived in.

7:11

Lee June Williams is the woman who

7:14

was a witness.

7:14

Yes, who testified

7:17

in my trial.

7:19

She saw Mr. Hall get

7:22

out of the car and she

7:25

saw a

7:27

white person in the back slumped open

7:30

and she identified Mr. Hall and some

7:33

other person coming out to drive

7:35

away.

7:37

It was raining and all

7:39

that stuff that night. So,

7:45

his office was here and

7:47

this was his building, Mr. Michael's building.

7:50

It's literally right across the street from

7:53

Attorney Michael's office. Yeah.

7:55

Yeah, this was New York Life, the

7:57

insurance office right here. Okay,

8:01

this is the parking lot right

8:03

here

8:05

where they claim Mr.

8:07

Velio

8:09

was killed at or whatever.

8:12

What the version, the latest version that

8:14

I heard in the court document is

8:17

that this is where he was accosted. That

8:19

this is where someone held him

8:22

at gunpoint and made

8:25

him go back into his vehicle, back into

8:27

his car and then forced him to drive to

8:29

another location.

8:30

Yes, this is that.

8:33

This is this location. But

8:36

you, if you notice, there's

8:37

one detective who's

8:40

telling you all of this,

8:42

right? His name is Ross. This

8:45

is his interpretation. But

8:47

nobody really knows if

8:50

that really happened. Who

8:53

puts Virgilio here? Who are all

8:55

the people who- William and Ross.

8:59

Attorney Michael doesn't put him here? No.

9:04

Nobody else sees Virgilio here? No.

9:08

No one else sees no one here.

9:11

They don't even see a car here except

9:13

Leijo and Williams.

9:16

Which if this structure remained the

9:18

same, I mean, it's a one-story

9:20

building that kind of wraps around the block.

9:23

It's a very open parking lot. From

9:25

here, from the street, I can see

9:27

all the cars that are in the parking lot

9:30

from here. It's pretty

9:32

open. It's not hidden by

9:34

other structures. It's not a narrow parking lot.

9:37

So like

9:40

I was saying, you literally

9:42

can walk from Michael's office to New York Life.

9:45

This is where Ray Wong Quinn,

9:48

the agent, this was his office

9:51

right here. Do you remember what

9:53

floor? No, not

9:55

really.

9:59

It's supposed to have been the scene of

10:02

the crime. Well, where

10:04

it starts. Where it starts. But

10:06

no one really knows.

10:11

So we know on

10:13

this street

10:15

is Attorney Michael's office,

10:18

where according to the prosecution, Virgilio

10:22

arrived

10:23

in the early evening.

10:27

Then he,

10:28

according to the prosecution, was

10:30

accosted from

10:33

that parking lot, driven

10:36

out.

10:36

And you

10:38

will show me the. Go

10:42

straight. OK. The

10:49

estate will go back after the break.

11:01

I'm Kathleen Goldhar, and I'm the host of

11:03

a new podcast,

11:04

Crime Story.

11:05

Every week we bring you a different crime.

11:08

Told by the storyteller, who knows it

11:10

best. You got one witness who can't

11:12

be found. You got another witness who's

11:14

murdered. We couldn't sugarcoat

11:16

the story. I was getting calls from Cosby's

11:19

attorney threatening to sue every day. Every

11:21

crime in one way or another is a reflection

11:23

of who we are as a people, as a city,

11:26

as a country. Find us wherever

11:28

you get your podcasts.

11:35

All right. So we can talk

11:38

about this park right

11:40

here to the right. Yeah.

11:42

This is where they found

11:45

Virgilio's body. Right. Let's

11:49

see if I can find this spot to

11:52

park. OK.

12:03

Can you tell me what were some of the, like the

12:05

buildings around each one?

12:06

This used to be the post office.

12:08

That one, that big building right

12:10

there?

12:11

That was the main post office.

12:14

The big building here was a

12:19

telephone company. So I know

12:21

we had to come down and pay our bills. The

12:24

telephone company. This

12:26

day, the doctor's office. And

12:29

this was just the, like the car

12:31

dealerships, all that stuff was down here. You

12:34

had all your major car dealers. They were

12:36

all located in this area.

12:38

But what's crazy to me is that

12:41

this is a pretty public

12:43

area. Why

12:46

would you, if you had to kill somebody, right? Like

12:48

if I had to kill somebody, I wouldn't kill

12:50

him in the middle of the, not the middle

12:53

of downtown, but on the outskirts of

12:55

downtown in a park.

13:02

Like, how did nobody see that?

13:04

They had people

13:07

out here and saw him

13:09

out here. I don't know. I

13:12

mean, I really don't know.

13:15

But then also to be fair, it

13:17

was December 31st. So those places

13:19

were closed. You know, the

13:21

post office is closed. The phone

13:24

company is closed. The bank is closed.

13:26

So, so to be fair, you wouldn't have

13:28

had employees, you know, getting

13:30

into their cars or whatever

13:32

at,

13:34

uh,

13:35

whatever time they claim it happened. Yeah.

13:39

But it seems like a very nice park.

13:42

Lots of trees. There's

13:44

not really a lot of benches. There's a little area

13:47

right here where you can do some

13:49

exercise. You

13:52

know, where they said that they found him.

13:55

No, no.

13:57

Well, it has, you know, it's not as

13:59

a.

13:59

part by any means. Where

14:04

are we off to next, Calvin? What do you

14:06

want to say next?

14:07

Yeah, just I think to

14:09

check out your side of town, check out

14:12

maybe where you went to school, go

14:14

look at your house where you lived,

14:17

look at the liquor stores, the construction

14:19

business. Okay. Yeah.

14:20

Alright, we'll go for next. Okay. This

14:33

is the hospital where you

14:36

went to. Where they brought Virgilio?

14:38

Right. Okay. Also,

14:41

I see we are at the intersection

14:44

of Harding and California Street

14:47

and everything

14:49

south of Harding was

14:51

considered south docked in.

14:54

Right. Got it.

14:57

I mean back this way. Yeah.

14:59

Right.

15:01

Well, to us it was just off limits

15:03

as a young person. I understand.

15:07

Wow, this is beautiful.

15:09

That's an old beautiful

15:11

city hall. Okay,

15:15

let's just get out real quick.

15:22

Calvin, what are some of the things that you used

15:24

to do here at City Hall?

15:25

We come to city

15:28

protest mostly. Protest

15:31

what? Conditions,

15:33

working conditions, stuff

15:36

like that.

15:39

Advocate

15:41

for housing, all

15:43

that stuff back in the day.

15:46

But you used to drive

15:48

up from South Stockton

15:51

with Rosie to come here

15:54

where your people don't live, where

15:57

you don't hang out at the park.

16:00

to come and complain at City Hall. Yeah.

16:05

You were never scared? No.

16:07

Not afraid

16:08

of White F No. Not afraid of White F No.

16:10

Not afraid of White F No. Not afraid of White F Never have been.

16:14

Never have been.

16:18

But no, we come here all almost But

16:20

no, we come here all almost Well, Rosie did more than

16:22

I did. He was up here almost every

16:24

week on the issue.

16:27

You've been at City Hall since you've been back too?

16:30

I got a lawsuit going with the man now.

16:33

The police department and the state. I'm

16:37

suing them right now. You're suing

16:38

them right now? Yeah. Why

16:40

are you suing the city right

16:42

now? They

16:46

informed me that

16:50

I couldn't go into the cannabis business

16:52

because I was the ex-fella. And

16:55

that's illegal. And I believe that

16:57

what they're doing is that they're

17:00

discriminating against a class of people.

17:03

Blacks and browns. We come out of prison.

17:07

We got a felony record. And

17:09

how can you stop me in

17:12

this city and the state? And

17:15

the cannabis

17:18

laws doesn't say I can't participate

17:21

because I'm ex-fella. Only

17:23

the city is stopped and the

17:25

police department has

17:28

to agree to

17:30

give you a permit to work

17:32

in the industry or on a license.

17:35

And

17:37

I have a right to work in that industry.

17:41

I hear you. Yeah. And

17:44

I agree with you. I'll find

17:46

however I can to make some money. I

17:48

guess it's not in the cannabis

17:49

business. It's not really about

17:51

the money itself.

17:53

It's about the fairness

17:56

and letting younger people

17:58

know. I try

18:00

to let the guys who are

18:02

dealing so-called

18:04

illegal drugs and

18:06

showing them where they got to get legal

18:09

in the system, the way

18:11

you make the money has become legal. And

18:17

they're saying that they can't get

18:19

in it because of certain things

18:21

like

18:24

the so-called act that the city have put

18:27

on them. And

18:29

it's a selective process. So

18:32

if I don't fight it, who's going

18:34

to fight it? There's no blacks in the industry, there's

18:36

no Mexicans in the cannabis industry

18:39

in Stockton. That's ridiculous. We

18:42

buy it. We smoke it. But

18:45

we can't be part of it? That's

18:47

crazy. No, that's got to change. To

18:50

me, I'm doing this service to the

18:53

minority community by accepting

18:55

injustice.

18:59

And that's how I could help, I

19:01

believe. Maybe I can, but that's

19:04

what I believe.

19:05

Why is it so important for you to help,

19:07

Calvin? Why?

19:09

During my lifetime coming

19:11

up, I was around like Cesar Chavez,

19:14

people like him, and

19:18

the Lord's Word to us, who really was

19:20

dedicated to causes, right? And

19:23

me and Rosie was dedicated

19:25

to them. And justice

19:27

is back then for justice. You

19:30

know, we started with the farm workers. We

19:32

knew the conditions of the Filipinos.

19:36

Because we went to school with them. And

19:39

actually the Filipinos started the

19:41

farm labor movement. We used to work

19:43

with them all the time. I mean,

19:46

they were our neighbors. We lived next door

19:48

to them. So we understood their

19:50

plight.

19:54

We'll be back with more After the

19:56

Race.

20:10

Okay, you're going to let me know where

20:14

I need to go, sir? Just go

20:16

straight up here and turn left.

20:18

We built this hotel right here.

20:21

Which one? Right here on the corner. The

20:23

Howard Johnson? Yeah. But

20:26

it wasn't the Howard Johnson back then or it was?

20:28

It was a Motel 6.

20:31

Oh, so it used to be a Motel 6. Right.

20:34

And you built the Motel 6. Yeah.

20:37

Or it was called something different back then. No,

20:39

it was a Motel 6 back then. So you... We

20:42

built a company called Specialty Restaurants.

20:44

They had a bunch of them.

20:47

So you built it for Specialty Restaurants?

20:49

Yeah. This right here on the corner. Right

20:51

there. That's pretty big. Yeah,

20:53

but it was... We had a first minority

20:56

contractor that built something like this in

20:58

Stockton.

20:59

Now this area here, all

21:01

this is considered

21:04

South Stockton. I'll

21:07

show you where we have one of our stores,

21:10

the stores in this area.

21:15

Did you and Rosie have any

21:17

business

21:17

over here? Just a store

21:19

over there. We service this whole area. Oh,

21:22

you service this whole area. Yeah.

21:25

So we knew everybody because they'd come

21:27

in the store.

21:28

Oh my goodness.

21:32

You were a businessman, sir.

21:33

Yeah, well.

21:35

You had stores on two locations

21:37

on Martin Luther King Drive.

21:39

Not on Martin

21:41

Luther King, off in that area.

21:47

And on each corner where

21:49

Stockton was, like

21:52

this was the end of Stockton. Then

21:54

we had to other one on Main Street, headed to Main Port

21:57

of Stockton.

21:59

here. Right. I'm gonna take a picture

22:02

of it. Okay. Was it called, was it,

22:04

was it similar to this building? Yeah,

22:06

it's all the same. It's the same building? Yeah, it

22:08

is here. But who did you

22:10

service here? Like who were your clients over here?

22:13

Over here? Yeah. Predominately

22:17

middle class, well so-called

22:19

middle class whites,

22:21

blacks.

22:22

Yeah. Became predominantly black

22:25

area and just

22:30

everybody in this community.

22:32

This was, I was with the only store out here.

22:35

You were the only store out

22:36

here? Yeah.

22:38

Back in the day. Back in the day, we're the only local

22:40

store so we had a clientele,

22:44

really. We

22:46

had a large clientele.

22:51

Let's go take a look at your other liquor store.

22:53

What

22:55

it once was, so

23:01

you had the liquor store right here. This

23:03

was also Port City Liquors. Right. But this

23:05

was the one that was on Main

23:06

Street? On Main Street. Because this is Main

23:08

Street right here. Okay.

23:11

So this is the liquor store on Main Street.

23:15

The White House with the trail next to

23:18

the bakery? Yeah. I lived there.

23:20

That's where I was raised. That's where you were raised?

23:23

Yeah. Right here on Main Street.

23:26

What was this neighborhood like when you were growing

23:28

up? Middle class, a lot

23:30

of, still a lot of white people lived there.

23:33

So it

23:34

seems like it was a mixed neighborhood

23:36

then?

23:36

Real mixed. Yeah.

23:39

Black.

23:42

Were there Latinos at that time or no?

23:44

Yeah.

23:46

What was your construction business like? Did you have

23:48

a nice office? Tell me, describe it, tell me to

23:50

me. Like as if we were walking in right now, what would it

23:52

look like?

23:53

A reception center. At

23:55

the secretary and we

23:57

had architectural design on one side.

23:59

We had in the back, we had

24:02

computers, then

24:05

we had offices. It was

24:08

business office.

24:09

Rosie had his office. I had mine, and

24:13

Tony Bajilio had his.

24:15

Where would you guys go to lunch? Downtown.

24:22

You would go to lunch downtown, all three of you?

24:24

No, just me and Rosie. We

24:26

never, he never.

24:28

He was the only part

24:30

of us through

24:32

the construction. We never, me

24:35

and Rosie were way back. He was

24:37

just somebody that came along. He

24:41

was good in his bill of what

24:43

he knew of how to run jobs, do

24:45

the kind. He knew the business,

24:46

right? I

24:51

almost feel like we're in the middle of nowhere now, Calvin.

24:55

I knew, where you taking me? Thank

24:57

you, my house. Thank

24:59

you, Calvin. Okay,

25:02

thank you. All right, you have a good day, sir. Okay,

25:05

and I'll send you

25:06

any information you need. Yes. Bye,

25:09

sir. Bye. Thank you for

25:12

listening.

25:14

If you enjoyed our

25:17

podcast, please help us with a five-star

25:19

rating, write our review, and

25:21

share it with your friends.

25:23

The complete first season of The Estate

25:25

is available wherever you get your book.

25:38

Thank

25:53

you.

25:59

carlos aeronautical

26:02

edited by roster around and jasmine

26:04

romero check

26:06

by sarah motor and evelyn rebate

26:09

mixing sound design by men while parra

26:12

and daniel idea engineering

26:14

by josh han sam bear

26:17

and brett to been at the relic room and new york

26:19

city original music

26:21

by ernesto a gear a or

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theme song is by marcus begala executive

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produced by alex estrada from

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sonora executive producers are joshua

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wine in into mila victoria know

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from tinder for tv executive producers

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are don't have albright in pain lindsay

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special thanks to leave the pollock

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cerebral and and christian you tar

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rodrigo crespo carmen

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granted road and adriana

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broker

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almost every kid here has

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absolute were story i don't

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even know how did it

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hidden in the redwoods and the pacific northwest

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super valley grapples with a crisis

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a series of unsolved his appearances

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spanning decades and we've been

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hearing

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about a lot of

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or been following your new season about ashley most

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certainly have been kind of

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the leah had the runner report many of

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the missing and murdered indigenous persons

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in we wondered what factors

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make this tribal land a place

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for people to then it's

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see started looking into a

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hesitant to come forward because they're

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scared for their own safety he knows

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she was trafficked you don't

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coaches murdered cause you the more

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crazy is that

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person whoever did it is foolish when

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we all know who.