Episode Transcript
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0:24
And now save 40% on the
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a limited time. For J.D. Power 2023
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award information, visit
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jdpower.com/ awards. Only at
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Sleep Number stores or sleepnumber.com. Some
0:41
guy Nick Mason, some sort of secrets of
0:43
which we all to Fitzroy. Are we going
0:45
back on the road in the summer across
0:47
the Uk. We were gates all of June
0:50
so brace yourself was a cold is caught
0:52
the set the control. So what a brilliant
0:54
name Oh using could accomplish such a great
0:56
name for tall very of wonder I think
0:58
I'm looking at him right? But then I
1:00
did come up with then Mason sources a
1:02
huge in the father came up would oppose
1:04
them because you were inspired by would he
1:06
would means is you bow and I was
1:08
everywhere everywhere but other for that so join
1:11
Nick. Guide Li Harrys don't beacon and me
1:13
as we celebrate your years with the incredibly
1:15
second credible body of work? Isn't that the
1:17
early Pink Floyd your goes up to just
1:19
before Dots Are The Guys. I was nine
1:22
seventy letter were all the film soundtracks, all
1:24
the sit stuff stuff you've never heard southern
1:26
no one's a home run previously and causes
1:28
the big sort of her know what is
1:31
that? What would you call it? Magnum Opus?
1:33
The Oliver Magnum that you the I Never
1:35
Met Magnum. Busy with. An
1:37
alleyway. Tickets on sale now and you
1:39
can buy yours at my ticket. To
1:42
Code or Uk and Kilimanjaro
1:44
Live Presents Nick Mason Source
1:46
for the secrets, the settler
1:48
controls or allegory Hello Guy!
1:50
I've been terribly bitten by
1:52
midges. What have you? Rarely.
1:56
Why why would I do? was he.
2:00
Yeah, mid-ure and mid-who-else.
2:03
Midge's minder. No,
2:06
we have terrible midges down here on the south
2:08
bounds. Oh, it's a hard life,
2:10
isn't it, really? I'm in
2:13
central London, mate. I'm in
2:15
central London, let it be known. Dodging
2:17
midges down here, we're dodging other things, I tell
2:20
you. You know what,
2:23
because I've got something I just wanted to mention,
2:25
which is... No, go on. We
2:27
spoke about Pyromania the other day with
2:29
Joe, and what we didn't mention,
2:32
I forgot to mention, was that
2:34
John Congus worked on the album.
2:37
You know John Congus, don't you? I
2:39
know the name. I can't think of it. You know, Tokoloshi
2:41
Man? He's going to step on you again? You
2:43
don't know those songs? Oh, my God.
2:45
Oh, wow, right. You know,
2:47
early 70s... Early 70s kind of...
2:51
Well, it's not Northern Soul, is it? No,
2:53
no, no, no. It's kind of like a weird Afro
2:55
beat, right? The early Afro, I guess. And,
2:58
I mean, listen, maybe it's because I'm
3:01
slightly older than you, just slightly, that
3:03
I bought those singles. They were big.
3:06
Yeah, no, I've got to say, that completely escaped me. I
3:08
was probably still buying Monster Mash at that point.
3:10
So John Congus, Tokoloshi Man, I'm going to step
3:13
on you again. He's going to step
3:15
on you again. Is that the one that
3:17
the Happy Mondays read? That's exactly it, yeah.
3:19
That one. Which is funny,
3:21
isn't it? Because that's basically, that's the song that
3:23
everyone knows of the Happy Mondays, and it's not
3:25
theirs. But the funny thing
3:27
is, as well, Joe recorded,
3:30
he's going to step on you again, for...
3:33
You know he was talking about they
3:35
did their Pin-Ups album. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think
3:37
it was called Yeah or Yes or something, maybe
3:39
Yeah, where they did all their
3:41
favourite tunes from the early 70s, and
3:43
that was one that they covered. But
3:46
John Congus actually worked on
3:48
Pyromania as the
3:51
Fairlight controller. Oh, so it
3:53
wasn't one of those, but he just happened to be
3:55
someone who was hard to do a gig. It wasn't,
3:57
like, you know, that thing that directors do, where they... they
4:00
get sort of the cult directors of their
4:02
favorite films and have a tiny little walk
4:04
off. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:06
No, he didn't play Kongers. Kongers, yeah. You know,
4:08
on it. He didn't step on
4:10
Joe. The
4:14
reason that he was on
4:17
the record, apparently, because I
4:19
texted Joe and asked him how he ended up
4:21
on the record, because, you know, Joe would have
4:23
been a slight sort of fan of his when
4:25
he was on it. Yeah, I'd dare say. It
4:27
was a South African connection because Matlana,
4:31
Matlana is African and he got his
4:33
mate in John Kongers, who
4:35
is at that point a fairlight controller in the
4:37
80s, which is pretty much ahead of the game.
4:40
This is where the connection is strange, right? Because
4:43
if you look in the Guinness Book of Records for
4:47
what was the first record
4:49
with a sample on, it's
4:52
John Kongers' He'll Step on You Again. He's not,
4:54
I can never get this title right, can I?
4:57
He's going to step on you again. He's going to step on you.
5:01
That's it. What's the sample? What did he
5:03
sample with what? What is 1971? How
5:06
can there be a sample? It's not a sample. What
5:09
it is, the McWherson's got it wrong. You
5:13
tell him. And
5:15
Roy Castle. There's
5:19
an African drum loop, tape
5:21
loop on that record. So
5:25
that to me doesn't make it the
5:27
first sample on a record. No, it doesn't
5:29
because I would have thought the Radiophonic Workshop
5:31
would have something to say about that. Easier
5:34
than that. Melatrons. Melatrons
5:36
are tapes, aren't they? They're tape loops. Yeah,
5:38
but it's an instrument, isn't it? I know what
5:40
you mean. They're a sample, but they're playing it.
5:43
It's not off another piece of music.
5:46
I mean, you're opening a potentially incredibly
5:48
dull can of worms. It
5:52
was just something I, you know, obviously I need
5:54
to get a life, but I'd gone down this
5:56
little avenue. I was kind of worried when you
5:59
started doing that. It was like
6:01
we were going from being rock
6:03
on to James Burke's Connections. Anything
6:08
to say? Nothing. Anything to add
6:10
to that? I've got nothing to add to that. I'm
6:13
beaten. Completely beaten. Yeah, go on. Brian
6:16
Orga, right? Yes, Brian Orga.
6:19
And I'm
6:22
sure this has come up before, but it's about
6:24
how us, the couple of years between us
6:27
doesn't mean anything here, which is that
6:29
when we got into music, and you
6:31
just read every book there is, because
6:34
everything, there was all that history we had
6:36
to catch up with the
6:38
history that we learned from the Battle of
6:40
Hastings and the Spinning Jenny and the repeal
6:42
of the Corn Laws. There's this
6:44
little period of history that you and I will
6:46
have read about more than anything else a
6:48
million times. Gromowski. Gromowski.
6:51
It's the Eel Pie
6:53
Island. Yeah, exactly. It's
6:56
all that. It's right at
6:58
the heart of it, every
7:00
fucking time, Steampunkit. You're
7:03
right. They're there, aren't they?
7:05
Absolutely ground zero. And it's like they
7:07
have a significant, for some of the
7:09
two things that have just come up,
7:11
all that seem to be like lynch
7:13
pins, well, there's Alexis Corner, Steampunkit and
7:16
the Yardbirds. And that's it. Yeah. And
7:18
to certainly say, Long John Baldry is a... Long
7:20
John Baldry, well, he's in Steampunkit. He's died it.
7:23
And Alexis Corner's... Alexis Corner's,
7:25
but he was the sort of fulcrum of
7:28
the whole blues thing, wasn't he? Yeah, but
7:30
he... And then you got the trad thing,
7:32
the old Cyril Davis, Chris Barber.
7:34
Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, we're going deep
7:36
today. But he's interesting, Brian, isn't
7:38
he? Because, I mean, for a
7:41
start, he played on For Your Love for
7:43
the Yardbirds. But way before then, this was
7:46
a guy older than
7:48
most. He's 84 now. So he
7:50
sneaked in jazz as opposed to
7:52
blues, but definitely went into
7:54
blues and kind of made the
7:56
Hammond his own instrument. You know,
7:59
Georgie Faim has obviously... playing the Hammond but in fact
8:01
I think it's a part of his story where
8:03
George and I save it, save
8:05
it, save it. But he's kind of made the Hammond
8:07
a rock instrument didn't he? Because I'm
8:09
not sure. No I think you're
8:11
right I think he might have been, no
8:13
because it was, I know he was... Well
8:15
Keith Emerson was obviously doing it later you
8:17
know. Later well I've got to, I
8:20
think that there might have been, if it was either
8:22
a symbiosis or he kind of went from, or Keith
8:24
got it from him. I think
8:26
things were distorted because they were maybe turned up
8:28
a bit too much and it's not actually the
8:31
sound they were looking for. But they were blues
8:33
jazzers weren't they those guys? Yeah Jimmy Smith isn't
8:35
it? Jimmy Smith and Jimmy McGuff yeah they're big
8:37
influence on him I think. And lots of Jimmies,
8:39
Hammond Jimmies. Yeah yeah Hammond Jimmies. But you
8:41
know he went on as well. Hammond Jimmies!
8:43
So he had steam packing, let's remember who
8:45
was in steam packing,
8:48
not just Lon John Brawley, it was Rod Stewart
8:50
so we're going to be talking about that as
8:52
well. And Judy Driscoll but of course they, what's
8:55
extraordinary and I think today might
8:58
have been the first time I ever heard
9:00
steam packet because I don't think they never
9:03
recorded or they did record and there was
9:05
sort of contractual fuck-ups or whatever. So that's
9:07
why, so there's this sort
9:09
of you know mythical band who
9:12
sort of left no trace. Three
9:14
vocalists as well. But
9:16
they're not, and him but then no one ever says
9:18
who else is in the band. And
9:20
then Rod went off and obviously did
9:22
what he did and Lon
9:25
John Baldry left and formed,
9:27
actually. Lon John Baldry. No
9:30
I think maybe, I
9:33
think Brian left and took Julie. Ah there you are.
9:35
Well after that's more. Yeah because then I got on
9:37
and had a very good, we need to be saving
9:39
this guy.
9:43
We need to be saving it. But I do want to say
9:45
one thing about Lon John Baldry which I found out. He
9:48
was tiny, he was actually tiny. For
9:50
a six foot seven man he was incredibly short.
9:55
Then say whether you could be incredibly short.
9:57
Yeah yeah. He
10:00
ended up years later, years later obviously
10:03
when he wasn't making records, as a
10:05
voice in Sonic the
10:07
Hedgehog cartoon. Did
10:10
you know that? I did not know that. I
10:13
think that's a great one. I'd love to end up
10:15
as a voice on Sonic the Hedgehog. Well
10:17
play your cards right son. Anyway,
10:20
he goes off and makes amazing jazz
10:23
records, amazing jazz rock records. He
10:25
supports Led Zeppman, he supports the Rolling Stones
10:28
and some of the stuff on Brian
10:30
Auger's Oblivion Express is incredible. Oh we
10:32
love that. I'm so glad I've been
10:35
listening to it. Not to mention playing
10:38
Jimi Hendrix's first ever London gig.
10:40
Oh and Keith as well, Keith
10:42
Murns. Keith got up and
10:44
played with him. Hey, save it, save it. Let's
10:46
get him on. Welcome to the Rock on
10:49
Ters. Okay
10:51
guys, I'm ready. You know this thing
10:53
about the 10,000 hours of experience? When
10:55
we recorded Arnold's Lane, we'd done about
10:57
50 hours. I love the
11:00
fact he's dancing to it naked, like
11:02
it's so hedonistic, it's so liberating. How
11:04
brilliant. We knew the moment that the
11:06
five of us were in a room, like the
11:08
first three chords, like oh, we finally all found
11:10
each other. I'm in a band now. It's called
11:12
Roxy Music. He started playing that as his main
11:14
guitar, so it was his main guitar, so I
11:17
just said you can have it. Thank
11:19
you guys for still being around, still
11:21
making music, still being into it, and
11:24
doing this podcast. It's fabulous. Everyone
11:26
in the band was completely
11:29
disengaged from their partners while
11:31
we made rumors. It's
11:33
a big tune for sure. I actually wrote
11:35
that originally for Tina Turner. The Rock
11:37
on Ters podcast with Gary Kemp and
11:40
Guy Pratt. Keep high rockin'!
11:43
Thank you for doing the Rock on Ters. We'll be looking forward to
11:45
this. Oh man, my pleasure.
11:49
We were saying, Brian, what's great is that
11:51
you are Right
11:53
at the absolute fulcrum of that
11:55
kind of most important formative bit
11:57
of everything that British music becomes.
11:59
the time and about. especially steam
12:02
hacker a Just So and poke.
12:05
A fundamental fundamental.
12:07
Fundamentalist. It was. It was
12:09
funny because of. I. Started
12:11
to them. You. Know I
12:14
Rahman's jazz piano piano player.
12:16
As much as others I asked what
12:18
your self taught just compatible you. Know
12:20
and wish I was. Actually I was
12:23
out of impressive number. From
12:25
well the thing was, So
12:28
I was born and thirty nine.
12:30
So the first things I remember
12:32
as being carried to the air
12:34
raid shelter every night because some
12:36
they were bombing the hell out
12:38
of us is that time. you
12:40
know, well as you're in London
12:42
right were nuns and when I
12:44
will. yeah I was a little
12:46
less. I'm a rose. Oh my
12:48
god you're kidding. Ones that nothing
12:51
Hill? yes and dumb. you know
12:53
these the same went on on
12:55
on on on. Said nobody explained
12:57
anything to me anyway. saw there
12:59
was a serious a loss through
13:01
lights in the sky, on saucepans
13:03
and stuff. Call Yeah you know
13:05
my motives are quick to get
13:07
in there. we evacuated. I was
13:09
actually because this is this is
13:11
really great Actually was as the
13:13
government had decided. That. Other certain
13:15
point didn't The bombing was his phone.
13:17
On and on and on and. Ah,
13:20
they decided they would take the kids
13:22
and take them out of the range
13:25
of the of the bombers. So.
13:27
I got taken to. Ah,
13:29
Place called badly yourself which which
13:31
was yeah that's what Robinson lawyers
13:34
from exile in the north side
13:36
that i ruin a story that
13:38
no no no no funds I'm
13:40
so i don't sense of too
13:42
badly and don't I was already
13:44
playing a piano because my dad
13:46
has done or a piano law
13:48
which was the thing that you
13:50
put reckon a year like a
13:52
role of of paper in. and
13:55
parties would move the out on i
13:57
would stand on the pedals and i
13:59
was i pedaling away like
14:01
some demented cyclist and
14:05
those he I don't know where he's got
14:07
all this stuff from because we had all
14:09
the operas in just piano form and stuff
14:12
like moonlight sonata and concertos and
14:15
you know we had poppini I
14:19
loved him you could
14:21
see what you could see what
14:23
the piano keys you could see
14:25
or no yeah so one of
14:27
my one of my favorite concerti
14:29
was the William Tell Overture and
14:34
I had you know and I watched the
14:36
the notes play and it went did it in did
14:38
it in did it in did it in did it
14:40
in did it in it well I
14:44
could do that but
14:47
he's doing it down there but
14:50
but this is the same up here it's just
14:52
higher up you know and so
14:54
and okay let's try then oh
14:57
my god do you reek you were doing the octave
15:03
you do the octave I what it what
15:05
it meant to me is that I could
15:07
actually learn bits and pieces from all this
15:09
stuff and I play it
15:12
along you know that's amazing um you know what's
15:14
funny is when you do it like that I was hearing that
15:17
tune in my head but I was hearing
15:19
it as a sort of Hank Marvin Dwayne
15:21
Eddie guitar de la la la la la
15:23
la la la la yeah of
15:25
course all this stuff you know the Mozart
15:28
the Jupiter you know
15:30
later on I played in
15:32
Mannheim and there was there
15:35
was a thing that term that
15:38
the not only Mozart
15:40
but Beethoven and all those kind of
15:43
guys were were using
15:45
to start a symphony to kind of wake
15:48
everybody up you know
15:50
and it was called the Mannheim
15:52
steamroller believe it or not and there was
15:55
a big opening fool you
15:57
know yeah full concert And
16:00
that one for the jubilee
16:02
I loved it because it
16:05
went BANG! Duh-wah! Duh-wop! And
16:08
then Duh-dah! Duh-dee-dah! BANG!
16:11
Duh-wah! Duh-wah! Duh-dah!
16:14
BANG! Duh-bah! BING!
16:17
Duh-dah! BANG! DUN-DUN-DUN!
16:20
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
16:24
BANG! BANG! BANG!
16:27
BANG! BANG! He's
16:29
setting up geography it's a corner response this
16:32
loud one is right by you and then
16:34
there's quite one which is way off in
16:36
the distance. Or he's
16:39
stumbled into I think all
16:41
right the manheim steam
16:44
rod and then I
16:46
think we'd better put something in for the birds
16:48
you know something in
16:50
for the ladies. I said BANG!
16:52
Duh-dah! Duh-dah! Duh-dah!
16:55
Wake up and listen. So
16:58
all of that goes into rock music in the end especially
17:00
the kind of music that you are going to play. Of
17:03
course. Because more to the point why I
17:05
can't believe is that there actually hasn't been
17:07
a band called Manheim Steamroller. But there was.
17:11
You sure? No. But there
17:13
was Brian August's steam packet though. Well
17:15
the steam packet yeah because that's from
17:17
the packet steamers though isn't it? We
17:19
didn't know what. Oh
17:21
yeah that's right and if you
17:23
were somebody who played with great
17:26
gusto at the time. You
17:28
know you were called a steamer.
17:31
So I said well who do we get
17:33
out of a band? In the band. Well I mean
17:35
better have him because he's just a steamer. And
17:38
it got to the point where I went whoa. And I
17:40
saw this picture of a
17:43
steam packet actually coming
17:45
down the Mississippi. There
17:48
it is you see it's all got the
17:50
thing it's got blues in it it's got
17:52
water in it. You know. It's
17:55
got all that kind of stuff. Is
17:57
that something you'd put in an advert in the back? of
18:00
a melody maker, isn't it? One said musician
18:02
must be a steamer. Yes,
18:04
exactly. Did this piano stay with you
18:07
through the war? Well this was
18:09
the thing, when we got, when
18:11
the bomb dropped I
18:13
was talking to my mum who was lying
18:16
and thank God she was in a
18:18
kind of L-shaped part of the room,
18:21
shielded from everything and suddenly
18:25
she must have heard this thing go. It was
18:27
a V1, you know, a
18:30
doodle bug, kind of flew
18:32
and then everybody kind of rushed
18:35
into doorways and stuff like that, you know,
18:37
but anyway my mum suddenly grabbed me and
18:39
said, right, get under the table and
18:41
threw me under the living room table and
18:44
there was this huge explosion
18:47
which took out the whole block actually
18:50
of St Anne's village of
18:53
which we were apart at the time and
18:57
I sat there under the table watching
18:59
all sorts of like, oh this is
19:01
nice, I saw like snow
19:04
coming down. Of course it
19:06
wasn't snow, it was the
19:08
ceiling and the walls. And
19:13
so again I can't remember any
19:15
kind of fear, those,
19:18
you know, I looked at
19:20
it and the fear was because my dad
19:22
had a hell of a tempo, if you
19:24
didn't keep yourself, you know, in line and
19:26
so I'm sitting under the table watching all
19:28
this stuff come down, I'm watching
19:31
the carpet darken and thinking
19:34
to myself, someone's really gonna
19:36
be in trouble now. That's
19:43
actually sweet, yeah. Yeah but I mean because this
19:45
is this is a kind of a difference with
19:47
you isn't Brian, is that because you seem to
19:50
be you're just a few years older
19:52
than all those sort of
19:54
60s cats so it's kind of they were all
19:57
born at the end but you actually live through.
20:00
the thing which is you know yeah i
20:02
i think that was uh you
20:05
know the strange thing was this thing
20:07
was going off every night man we
20:09
were you know my dad
20:11
used to my dad was in the
20:13
st john's ambulance brigade so
20:16
when the raid started he
20:18
would say to
20:20
my mom i'll be i'll be back you
20:23
know in the morning and he would go
20:25
out in the middle of it all he dug
20:27
people out of houses that were belonged to
20:29
pitts and uh had a did
20:32
a lot of first aid for people and stuff like
20:34
that and so none of
20:36
that kind of like uh was something
20:38
that in favor of any
20:40
sort of fear in me but did
20:42
it was just it was just all
20:45
going around going on around did the
20:47
piano we get destroyed in that bomb
20:49
well the piano when i looked at
20:51
it the piano was the most amazing
20:53
thing because the finish on
20:55
the piano was it was a black
20:57
piano i couldn't read at the time
20:59
but by the time i could read it said
21:02
castner i think either
21:05
in bremen or somewhere up
21:07
there you know ironically and
21:10
beautiful piano beautiful you
21:12
know it played uh when
21:15
it was tuned up my dad kept it going
21:17
and any of you and and uh it
21:20
was just amazing man i i played on that
21:22
you know and i i loved it i just
21:24
wanted to play that and mess
21:26
about every day but it
21:28
never got destroyed in the boat it never got
21:30
destroyed and i i've often thought since i
21:33
thought i wonder whether the guys in
21:35
pina munda you know who
21:37
aimed all these things at us said
21:39
listen watch that you know 339 land
21:41
my road you know
21:43
castner you know take it
21:46
easy somehow or other bit it
21:50
was you know i mean you're absolutely
21:53
loony so um anyway when
21:55
i was evacuated away i was
21:58
put in a class of 50 and
22:01
the late little girls who
22:03
we were all taught together and they actually
22:05
taught me to read. Do you mean read
22:08
read or read music? No no
22:10
and read. Alright. Just read probably. No I
22:12
never learned to read music because I was
22:15
playing at the time I think
22:17
I was in the mood. And
22:23
I thought I was really good because I went bad
22:25
doo doo doo doo doo doo da. Oh
22:28
you could do it yeah yeah. Yeah. I'm
22:31
returning into a jazzer. I
22:33
am well I suppose I am. The
22:35
thing is that my brother had a collection
22:38
of American jazz records. This
22:42
is the older brother I'm taking. Yeah I heard Satchmo.
22:45
That really got me going the
22:47
swing of it all. And
22:49
then he had this big radio
22:53
that was probably made up in
22:56
the 30s you know. And
22:59
so at one point he says
23:02
here bro you can have this. And I
23:04
said what that? Yeah.
23:07
Because I'm gonna get an I'm gonna get a
23:09
modern radio you know that can
23:11
I sit on the table. But you can
23:13
have that. So I took it up to my bedroom stashed
23:16
it next to the window and got
23:18
a piece of wire and made an
23:20
antenna that hung outside. And
23:23
then being happy to be really quiet because I
23:25
didn't want to wake my mum and dad up
23:27
otherwise. So basically
23:32
I'm dialing with this great big
23:34
knob around you know about one
23:36
o'clock in the morning and all of a sudden this
23:38
voice says this is the American
23:41
Forces Network in Germany. You know
23:43
we present the jazz
23:46
hour. I'm like oh my god.
23:50
So they presented
23:52
a record by a guy called Oscar Peterson.
23:54
Yes. Yeah. And I thought I was doing
23:56
well going but I do do do do
23:58
do do do do. I
24:01
must have been about four at the time or something like
24:03
that and when I heard Oscar play
24:05
I was stunned into silence Thought
24:08
about it all and went, you know, I
24:11
want to play like that, but it's gonna take
24:13
it's gonna take a long time Remember
24:17
Oscar Peterson had a BBC two
24:19
weekly show when we were kids
24:21
didn't he was on TV every
24:23
time Amazing.
24:25
Yeah, and there was another lady Her
24:29
name was Winifred Atwell. Oh, yeah,
24:31
Winifred was
24:34
brought up was was I think from Jamaica
24:36
or somewhere like that and Was
24:39
that absolute sweet of a lady I could
24:42
play the hell out of the piano and
24:44
I imagine that at
24:46
that particular time her
24:48
her color and Her
24:51
you know, yeah background wasn't
24:54
something that somebody was there I said
24:57
Let's put this lady in front of her The
25:01
BBC home service or
25:03
something like that, you know, so she
25:06
turned to rags
25:08
playing His rack
25:11
bad at eating
25:13
doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo I
25:15
was like aghast. Oh my god
25:17
and She played
25:19
a lot of other stuff, you know boogie rags
25:21
and god knows what and it
25:24
was just wonderful So the AFN was your
25:26
education really it was your school. Yeah,
25:28
because I won a scholarship to Sloan
25:31
Grammar School. The first thing
25:33
I noticed is they had this best time
25:36
piano and somebody would come out and bang
25:38
out Oh And
25:48
there was a thing that the headmaster
25:51
Guy Boaz who's a
25:54
master of arts from Oxford He
25:57
wrote a book called the the Shakespearean
25:59
actor which I think they still use.
26:01
Oh yeah, I think that's a guy Boaz.
26:04
And he was one of those eccentric
26:07
Englishmen. I was dying to
26:09
get my hands on this piano and instead of
26:12
the five Friday solos he'd step forward and
26:14
say, hello, it is five scovers of 3B
26:17
and he's been
26:23
playing a piece. Anyway, so
26:25
I was steaming into
26:27
this boogie and I'd waited behind to
26:30
make sure that everybody had gone home.
26:32
And round the corner comes the
26:39
headmaster in his mortarboard and
26:41
gown and everything and says,
26:44
order! What the devil
26:46
do you think you're doing? Oh
26:50
God, I'm going to get expelled now. So
26:53
I said, well sir, I'm playing
26:57
the piano and he said, yes, I can
26:59
see that. I
27:01
said, but what is that you're playing? So I
27:04
said, well, actually it's called the
27:06
Cross Hands Boogie, sir. That cross
27:09
hands boogie? Who wrote that
27:11
then? I said, I
27:13
think it was Winifred Atwell. Anyway,
27:16
I thought this is a here
27:18
it comes, you know, it's going to kick me out
27:20
now. I said, I said, you
27:23
know, this piano I've waited for two years,
27:25
it's the most beautiful piano I've ever seen
27:27
actually. It makes me, and when I played
27:29
it made me like feel
27:32
like it was so good. And
27:35
he said, I see. This
27:37
sort of music
27:40
from the Jim Mills
27:42
of America. Oh, it's
27:46
lovely. Well,
27:49
kind of it's jazz. It's
27:51
American jazz. So, who
27:54
wrote that? Well, fortunately
27:56
for us, Winifred Atwell Wrote
27:58
it and was able to play it. Right!
28:00
it had that she's A
28:02
she's from our Jamaica season.
28:05
Lives over. Here is how. Is
28:08
it is a popular. For.
28:10
For for for all this is
28:12
our crazy the English all future
28:14
focused paul tell us when I
28:17
say all very often as I
28:19
think as it's it's a number
28:21
one actually on the on the
28:23
yeah music charts. Missed.
28:25
Costs. One set them.
28:28
For. Suppose I have tried to explain
28:31
it and he says some drill hole
28:33
that would you like to say if
28:35
right as as a possible I said
28:37
of course I would. Yeah good then.
28:40
I. Said that's. What? What? Was that a Korean?
28:43
A sense cause they cross hands
28:45
of movies at the cross hands
28:48
but yeah. So
28:50
did you play that in front of
28:52
a school chef? I was a way
28:54
that we met tires and he and
28:57
his bride old off free be with
28:59
the cross ads anyway. Friday morning steps
29:01
forward isn't. This. Morning's products
29:03
so else will be given.
29:05
Boy Ah, top of through
29:08
a O S of Peace
29:10
Fire I miss Winifred Aswell
29:12
or that point Every the
29:15
kids all woman who authored.
29:19
Face fines I it's and
29:21
titled the cross him as
29:23
big as so I literally
29:25
save our only did he
29:28
did it went down of
29:30
course. After these kids have.
29:32
Had to move prisoner, people scraping allowing.
29:34
Oh became a hero immediately as in
29:36
I I'm absolutely man united Was this
29:38
is before Rock'n'roll Those that were out
29:40
as it is say that as A
29:42
as lads it's kind of on the
29:44
A. Wow. I always seem to have
29:46
always seen a for myself on the
29:48
edge of these movements to you know
29:50
business beginning of the generation gap as
29:53
well. probably a legs that I had
29:55
that because it was some people who
29:57
the younger guys. who were
29:59
teaching who'd just been brought up as
30:02
a kind of secondary teacher, they
30:04
thought it was wonderful. There were the faces, when
30:06
I looked at the faces of the guys with
30:09
their stiff collars, and it was
30:11
like watching the empire fall. I
30:14
could go. I could go. I could go. I could
30:17
go. I could go. Raven's leaving the tower.
30:19
I mean, what you're most famous for, Brian,
30:21
is the Hammond. And I'm just interested to
30:23
know how you found your way to award
30:25
to Hammond from the piano. I'm guessing you're
30:27
a professional musician at that time. I
30:30
was, yeah. And I was playing jazz
30:33
piano, man. I was it. And it
30:35
was straight from school into that, right? Was it? Well,
30:38
I was, yeah, well, I was, yeah, exactly. I
30:40
was just kind of like, I
30:42
had a day job. I had a
30:45
family to feed because my dad was ill,
30:47
and we had to pay the rent, and
30:49
I had a younger brother, a younger sister.
30:52
So there were two clubs that I used
30:54
to play. They were both in the same
30:56
street, in Gerrard
30:59
Street in
31:01
London, you know. Chinatown. Chinatown.
31:04
Fairly kind of. Was it
31:06
full on Chinatown then? Yeah, it would have been. Yes,
31:08
it was. Well, it wasn't at the time. But
31:10
there were Chinese restaurants, yeah, were the best ones
31:13
to go to as well. So
31:15
I got a phone call. Brian,
31:18
can you do this thing with a guy called Babs
31:21
Gonzalez? Babs Gonzalez was
31:23
a guy who claimed that he'd invented
31:27
the oobla-dee and all that
31:29
kind of stuff. Funny
31:31
guy. But an American,
31:33
I thought, what? John Gee,
31:36
who was working
31:38
for the British
31:40
Jazz Federation or something, I'd gone
31:42
around and taken him around to
31:45
see people who played, and
31:47
he picked me. Unknown to me. I
31:49
want him, and we do two 45s
31:52
a night at Ronnie's. But
31:54
then I got a call from Rick, and
31:57
Rick was the guy who ran the...
32:00
the all-nighter at the
32:02
Flamingo. He was always on for
32:04
me because he had these kind of
32:07
organ band stable that
32:10
he was looking
32:12
after, you know booking them and stuff.
32:15
And he said when you when you're gonna buy an organ then, I said
32:17
how dare you speak to
32:19
me like that. I had a jazz piano
32:22
there if you don't mind. I said
32:24
yeah I know, I know, I know, but it's
32:27
just I mean I've got all this work I mean
32:29
I can put you in all sorts of work if
32:31
you want to you know. I'm
32:33
not doing that, how dare you.
32:36
You know and then about a
32:38
month or two later the phone rings
32:40
at seven o'clock in the morning. I'm
32:42
like what the hell's going
32:44
on here? So I call up, he
32:46
says Brian is that you? I said well wait
32:49
a minute let me have a look in the
32:51
mirror. Yes it is. He says
32:54
look this is Rick Gunnell. He
32:56
said we were in the middle of, this is how
32:59
silly all this stuff is. You
33:01
know we were in the very middle of a kind
33:03
of heat wave of all things in
33:05
England in the
33:07
August there and his
33:09
main band which was doing
33:11
about three things three gigs a
33:13
day was Georgie Faim and
33:16
the Blue Flames. And poor Georgie
33:19
had gone down fell asleep on
33:22
the beach and got really badly
33:24
sunburned and was carted off the hospital.
33:27
And he was the organ player right?
33:29
He was Hammond or organ or whatever
33:31
he played? Well he played, he
33:34
was a rock and roll piano player you
33:36
know but he kind of
33:38
strayed a little bit and you know a few
33:40
jazz people and you know
33:43
it was one of those things I
33:45
listened to it and I said well that's
33:48
that's pretty good but it wasn't
33:50
like you know I
33:53
had that big nose in the air
33:55
thing because you know I
33:57
was a piano player. You
34:00
know, and I was a jazz piano player. But
34:03
now you're forced into something for you. Right,
34:07
exactly. So Rick says, you've got
34:09
to help me out, right? I
34:11
said, well, what do you mean? He says, look, I've
34:13
got all this work. I can't just
34:15
turn it all down. I mean,
34:18
it's three gigs a day, but you had
34:20
to carry the organ backwards and forwards. I
34:23
don't think I could do that, you know? And
34:25
he says, well, we'll have something to do that. And
34:28
we'll get you from place to place. I
34:30
said, yeah, I'm doing like two 45s
34:33
a night with Babs Gonzalez over
34:35
at Ronnies. He says, don't
34:37
worry, we'll get you there with a taxi or
34:39
whatever. Well, OK. And
34:42
I went, he said, right, be at the
34:44
roaring 20s at 8 o'clock tonight.
34:46
So I went down there, and there they
34:48
were, all hard at work, all kind of
34:50
arranging the stage. I looked around, I said,
34:52
here. Where's the piano?
34:55
And the guy says, no, there's no piano, mate.
34:57
No, not any, no, no. I
34:59
said, what? Well, what about some of the supply?
35:01
And then, for God's sake, he says, well, as
35:04
George, it's all gone up there. You know what
35:06
I mean? That's basically it. I
35:08
thought, Rick, you
35:10
should. He
35:13
lumbered me into it, you know? So I thought,
35:15
well, don't panic, Olga. And
35:17
I went, I said, I'd never play
35:19
one of these things. He had an
35:21
M3 with all these switches
35:23
and stuff all over. I
35:27
was already a Jimmy Smith fan.
35:30
Big jazz organ player. Yeah, don't
35:32
panic. Let's try to assemble
35:34
these things so that they sound the nearest
35:37
to Jimmy Smith as possible, which we did.
35:39
And I meant, the tunes that they play
35:41
were very, very simple stuff, really. So we
35:43
did the whole evening, you know? Did you
35:45
fall in love with it? Did you fall
35:47
in love with it? I
35:50
suddenly realized what power it
35:52
had to speak through a
35:54
band. You know, instead
35:56
of all these grimy Old Roses. That
36:00
would piano sister I gossip with her up
36:02
Spinoza just so the having to keyboards and
36:04
pedals them into the have a lot with
36:06
the to them free have a nice and
36:09
naughty i did my no no no no
36:11
no emphasis it was just sat organ. You
36:13
know that if you're not a big discovery
36:15
would have been allegedly cabinet when it was
36:18
his a famous spinning speaker which yes classic
36:20
sound yeah I mean I think that that
36:22
was what was going on. Going.
36:24
On a specific you still there
36:26
was no more no a some
36:28
monitors or anything like I support
36:31
your Juri had to saying. Through.
36:33
This whole thing. You know I'm
36:36
die. Anyway, that was
36:38
it. So we got the funny
36:40
thing I I remembered as I
36:42
got off the stage in the
36:44
Us and a break on those
36:46
workers were walking to the bars
36:48
are gonna Coca Cola has some
36:51
guy came arms has ever asked
36:53
author know you've tried organ possible?
36:55
I don't really. Well.
36:58
When. How long
37:00
you been playing organ? Then I saw about.
37:03
Forty five minutes. Total
37:06
Madness. Man. But. That's.
37:09
That's. Who trap to me into
37:11
suddenly discovering the things that you
37:13
could do? You. Know with but
37:15
it is, it's is or thing here.
37:17
sign with what you're saying that if
37:19
you hadn't it's Josie Fame and fallen
37:21
asleep on the beach. The
37:23
out some sites then then you
37:25
might not be forced to play
37:27
that Discover the saying that is
37:30
you. I say. Felt
37:33
some when I look back.
37:35
the universe has been. Very.
37:38
Shocking to me so was dumped
37:40
me in a situation where I
37:42
saw this is the end Physicists
37:44
put it wasn't it was the
37:46
beginning of something else. Yes as
37:48
as I think there was one
37:50
of those modern so. Planning.
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drinkag1.com/rockenteurs. Check it out. Let's
40:21
talk about Steam Packet because Long John Baldry was
40:24
already in a band with Rod Stewart, a very
40:26
young Rod Stewart. This is how I think they
40:28
met because John Baldry had
40:30
a band called the Hootie
40:32
Cootie Band. He was a famous blues
40:34
singer. Apparently, leaving the
40:42
Ill Pi Club one night after
40:44
doing a gig, he bumps
40:46
into a young Rod Stewart, 17 or something,
40:50
singing a blues
40:52
song, busking a blues song
40:54
at Twickenham train station. Really?
40:56
Probably Ill Pi Island had something to
40:59
do with that. He
41:01
joined a band. He joined John Baldry's band.
41:03
How did you end up coming together with
41:05
them and Judy Driscoll? Well,
41:07
he was kind of skating around and
41:10
sitting in with different bands all
41:12
dressed up in the
41:15
Carnaby Street special. I
41:20
did this gig. It was in a place
41:22
called the Twisted Wheel in Manchester. I
41:25
loved Manchester actually to play there
41:27
because people were so expressive. I
41:32
went to see Elton John in Manchester last year and
41:34
he did a big thank you to the audience and
41:36
he brought up the Twisted Wheel and how important that
41:39
had been to him. Of
41:42
course, hang on, isn't there a connection here? Didn't
41:44
Elton play... who was
41:47
the first band Elton was in? It was the Brotherhood
41:49
I think it was. Something like that.
41:51
Did he play keys for one of these groups?
41:55
Oh yeah, hang on, we're getting into Pete
41:57
Frame territory here. Don't worry, don't worry, move
41:59
on, move on. Yeah, yeah. We'll come
42:01
to that. Yeah, he you know,
42:04
I got a call from him
42:06
years later when he and he
42:08
says Did I pick up the phone
42:10
call from who? Elton
42:12
John. Oh John. Okay. Yeah, he
42:15
says Brian it's
42:17
Elton It's never done
42:19
this man, you know Elton
42:23
come on mate. It's like Elton John
42:27
What I couldn't believe it
42:29
said Elton for God's sake, you
42:31
know, how are you mate? And he said
42:33
well, I'm okay, but I'm in a rush
42:35
because you know, I'm God I'm
42:37
now on the way to
42:39
a gig and I'm leaving on the
42:41
plane very shortly So I
42:44
said, oh, okay. I said so what's going
42:46
on Elton? So he says
42:48
well, I just wanted to tell you I saw
42:50
your article in the Manchester Guardian You
42:53
know and you mentioned when if for that will
42:56
Yeah And he
42:58
said well on him we all loved Winnie. I
43:00
said, what do you mean? We all loved her?
43:03
Everybody loved Winnie. You know and
43:06
I found out afterwards. I
43:08
asked All the
43:10
piano players I knew like whenever that was
43:12
oh, yeah Why
43:14
was he calling you though? He said well, I used
43:17
to kind of dodge in the back because I was
43:19
like, you know But I did follow
43:21
you all the way through in the one
43:23
to Brotherhood Amazing I said,
43:25
why don't you come up and say
43:28
hello for God's sake says how
43:30
you know? So
43:32
boldery was my so blues
43:34
ology when Elton was Reggie
43:36
Dwight He played piano
43:38
and wait in with John Baldry long John
43:40
Baldry singing. How did Julie Driscoll
43:43
come into this mix? Well, I
43:45
was Called up to
43:48
do a couple of sessions Recording
43:51
sessions and they were for Julie I
43:54
didn't know Julie but when I heard her sing
43:56
I went wow. Well, that's somebody I
43:58
should keep my eye on because
44:01
hell of a singer and
44:04
later on I found out that she
44:06
was being managed by the same manager
44:08
as me and
44:11
yeah this is the twisted wheel thing
44:14
all right we played the twisted wheel
44:17
and who should turn up in
44:19
the break but boulders I guess they're all
44:21
in boulders look here boulders
44:27
so anyway he says here Bri you guess
44:30
it was a household name at the
44:32
time and he came up and he said
44:34
look my my
44:36
managers would like to have a word with you
44:39
actually on Monday this is Saturday
44:41
night and what's the chance of you
44:43
coming coming around you know
44:45
so I went
44:48
and there was a they were
44:50
all sitting there and apparently the
44:52
hoochie coochie men which was
44:55
boulders and there are some
44:57
tales about them that were outrageous
45:03
and his
45:05
manager said look look Brian the
45:07
hoochie coochie men are completely
45:10
out of control John
45:12
can't control them and neither
45:15
can we you know well
45:17
alright so what he said well
45:20
I'd like to start a new band I
45:22
said well who are
45:26
gonna happen a new band or how does it work
45:28
he says well Baldry was there
45:30
his agent was there his manager was
45:33
there my manager was
45:35
there and I
45:38
said well
45:40
what kind of what kind of band are
45:42
you looking for well it could be blues
45:44
it could be some jazz it could you
45:46
know it could I you know all sorts
45:48
of kind of ramifications so
45:51
I said well okay let
45:53
me think about this and he said I've got
45:55
to have this young singer a Rod
45:57
Stewart I
46:00
had to worry about a jam with
46:02
him, he sat down with my band at
46:04
one point. He said,
46:06
that's the only stipulation. I said, well, the thing
46:08
is this mate, if you want
46:10
me to start a band, then
46:12
everybody goes from the last band.
46:15
Cause it's just, it's
46:18
no good man. It goes completely down
46:20
the drain otherwise. And
46:22
he says, well, all right, yeah, but I
46:24
insist upon having Rod. Okay.
46:28
What about the rhythm section of stuff? I said, no, I've
46:30
got a fantastic rhythm session. So
46:32
I could keep those. And
46:35
then after, I've just
46:37
done the record, a couple of
46:40
tracks with this girl called Julie
46:42
Triskell, who's in our agency.
46:45
I said, we should add Julie. And
46:47
they went, well, how does that work then? I
46:50
said, well, you know, if you're
46:52
gonna have two male singers, I mean, what
46:54
are we gonna do exactly? One of them
46:56
stands around or, you know, is
46:58
this one of those like American
47:00
things? That's
47:02
two singers, isn't it? Some of
47:05
us are playing tambourine. Exactly.
47:07
The Marathas. Exactly.
47:11
So I said, look,
47:13
here's an idea. I've just done
47:15
these recordings with a young lady
47:17
called Julie Triskell. And she's
47:19
got a hell of a voice, man. And I
47:21
think we should have her in the band. And
47:24
they all went, Rod said, oh no, we
47:26
can't do that. I said, well, why not?
47:28
She said, well, we won't be able to swear, will we? Ha
47:31
ha ha. So
47:33
I ignored that and I said, look,
47:37
and they said, well, how does that work? You
47:40
know, with all these people, I said like this,
47:43
I go on, I play some
47:45
Jimmy Smith stuff, some Brian August stuff
47:48
to kick the evening off, you know? And
47:51
then on comes Julie. And
47:54
Julie sings some
47:56
of her greatest hits
47:58
from different people. she
48:00
loves and then after a
48:02
couple of them and I
48:04
could sing back up for Julie
48:06
and then Rod comes on and
48:09
we can all sing back up for Rod and
48:11
Rod does his Sam Cook kind
48:13
of impressions and sing
48:16
stuff. So it
48:18
was a slight review about review quality
48:20
about it. Exactly you know because to
48:23
otherwise how are you going
48:25
to organize this. I said and then
48:27
Baldry comes on but this is great because
48:30
with these people who could
48:32
sing back and they know blues and
48:34
they know you know they also know
48:36
you know stuff from the church and
48:39
so we could do gospel. We
48:41
could do that. We could do gospel.
48:43
We could do John could sing gospel.
48:45
Could sing his hits. Amazing. Everything
48:48
went quiet. And they all
48:50
kind of looked around and went what do you think?
48:53
Well why don't you just call me? You
48:55
know there we are
48:58
you know and they called me and said yes
49:00
we want to do that. And you supported the Rolling Stones.
49:02
Oh you played we went on tour with the Rolling Stones.
49:05
Yes we did yeah. But they were
49:07
breaking at the time I guess. Well I
49:09
mean you know with the kind
49:12
of road making equipment you
49:14
know I mean I'm sure they could
49:16
be broken very easily. However the stones
49:18
that we've replied to as
49:21
the the the strolling
49:23
ruins. Everybody
49:27
had a you know another
49:29
name. It's just
49:32
very English. How was that playing
49:34
with them those early tours? Because
49:36
they're screaming girls isn't it? Yes
49:39
it was yeah. Only for a couple of
49:41
rows but then you know
49:43
the places fall off. I'd go down
49:45
and I'd go over only once or twice and I
49:47
knocked on the door and introduced myself and they
49:50
all kind of. A
49:53
jazzer. Mmm. Mighty. I would
49:57
have thought Charlie was all over you.
49:59
He was. Yeah, that was exactly
50:01
my point was the only one guy. Sorry
50:03
the only one that came out and say
50:06
Yeah, right come over here mate Look,
50:09
I've arranged a play because we were
50:11
at the London Palladium and
50:14
I said I've got all everybody You
50:16
know, we've got all this all
50:18
this time in the afternoon and so
50:20
we could have a jam I said,
50:22
you know, that's a great idea man,
50:25
you know, so we did and we jammed
50:29
They had a safety curtain, you
50:31
know, and so didn't matter who
50:33
was behind there So anyway, we did this
50:35
and we had a jam and it was
50:37
it all went off really nicely I
50:42
wish we'd have had a way of
50:45
recording some of that stuff, you know, but I
50:47
think we didn't well That was gonna be my
50:49
next question mister because this is the thing is
50:51
it's a steam packet There's
50:53
stuff has now come out but at
50:55
the time you never there was no
50:57
album or anything was there no there
51:00
wasn't because The
51:02
within the same packet there was
51:04
John Baldry's manager
51:07
There was a Rod's manager It
51:10
was my manager and Julie's
51:12
manager and they managed to
51:14
argue amongst themselves For
51:16
two years we couldn't get
51:19
that was completely stupid because
51:21
John Had I think
51:23
it was a London Records or something like that
51:26
a really good label Honey, he
51:28
should have insisted that that's it.
51:30
It's coming out if we do
51:32
a record. It's coming out on that label I
51:35
would have agreed to that but I don't know
51:37
what went on among it, you know But it
51:39
just went on and there's some recordings out there
51:41
now on there Yeah, hmm, there's basically one album
51:43
which seems to be out in two different versions
51:46
Did Jimmy have to get up on
51:48
stage with the steam packet? What happened?
51:50
What was that? No, that was that
51:52
was that well, they imchill it. Yeah.
51:55
Yeah, sorry. That was a separate thing
51:57
altogether I got a call from
52:00
Chas Chandler, who Jimmy's mentioned, I
52:02
knew from the animals and he
52:04
says, here, Brian, you want to
52:06
come up to the office and
52:08
talk to us? And he'd
52:10
already stopped playing. And I thought, who
52:13
is this office? And it was
52:15
Mike Jeffrey. Mike Jeffrey
52:17
was the biggest crook that I
52:20
could think of, actually, who
52:22
on the side of the business side of the
52:24
industry. In the middle of all this stuff going
52:26
on. And to be
52:28
fair, I said, well, I
52:31
knew inside myself, this wasn't
52:33
going to happen. But I said to Chas,
52:36
I said, well, if you want to talk, man,
52:38
I'll come up, just to
52:40
make sure that you don't sit
52:43
there with egg on your face. So
52:46
anyway, I get to the office and
52:48
he says, here, Brian, we've brought
52:51
this great guitar player over from New York.
52:53
And we want him to, here's the words. We
52:56
want him to front your band. I
53:00
was supposed to collapse on the
53:02
floor with joy at that. But
53:05
I said, wait a minute. I've got somebody
53:07
who fronts my band. It's Julie Driscoll. I said,
53:09
what am I supposed to do? I've got a
53:11
guitar player. I've got a great singer. What do
53:14
I do? Park them on the pavement, you
53:16
know, and pick a dilly and wait for
53:18
somebody to kind of pick
53:20
them up. Mike Jeffery, leering
53:23
underneath this dark
53:26
glass, you know, behind the
53:28
desk says, well, that's
53:30
your problem, isn't it? And
53:32
I thought, spoken like a true Mike
53:35
Jeffery. So I said, no,
53:37
I can't do this, man. I'll
53:40
tell you what I can do, though. I said,
53:42
look, I'll tell you what. I
53:46
think it's a Monday night tonight or... And
53:49
on Thursday, I'm playing at
53:51
this place called the Cromwellian Club, you
53:54
know, on Cromwell Road. And
53:58
you'd be most welcome to bring... get
54:00
to our player you know and in the
54:02
break he can sit in with my band if he wants
54:04
to and so
54:07
Chas says right we'll be there then
54:09
good okay so we leave
54:12
it we get there we play
54:14
the first set and the place is
54:16
jam because it was the only place
54:19
you could get a drink until two
54:21
o'clock in the morning so somebody had
54:23
done a great job of bribing the
54:25
Kensington Borough Council here we are it's
54:30
like buzzing it's crazy you know
54:33
everybody who's everybody so
54:35
they're all about five or six well-known
54:37
guitar players there and people
54:39
like you know Lulu
54:42
and I mean you know
54:44
it was the business clap to
54:46
anyway I guess in the
54:49
middle up comes Chas with
54:51
Jimmy and I said Brian this
54:53
is Jimmy Jimmy hey Jim how
54:57
you doing bro and he
54:59
says oh can I sit in
55:01
with your band I said
55:03
well depends yeah sure
55:05
what do you want to play
55:08
and he gets his guitar and
55:10
he strums these chords but I
55:12
said it sounds alright to
55:15
me it was it was
55:17
actually a
55:20
chord so hey Joe I've
55:22
never heard this before so I said
55:25
yeah here we go then you count in and away
55:27
we go you know so counted
55:30
in and everyone was kind of awestruck
55:32
we were like we were looking at one
55:34
another is this real and
55:38
he played the hell out of this
55:40
tune you know and then
55:42
yeah we all had a go at it
55:44
and it was great and do
55:47
you and you would have been except he would have
55:49
been playing elsewhere this wasn't his first gig of all
55:51
in London ever no no no no
55:53
no he'd been
55:55
on the bag of nails yeah yeah it
55:58
wasn't a gig at all it was just
56:01
sit in and I said at the time
56:03
it's gonna be like could be you know if
56:06
you do it the Cromwell Road it
56:08
could be like a kind of like I
56:11
don't know a showcase for
56:13
him and that would get you off in the right
56:15
foot here basically I
56:18
couldn't believe it man I mean clappers
56:22
or Clapton and boulders
56:24
is called clappers clappers is
56:26
Clapton right clappers
56:29
went home and well
56:33
that's it back to the drawing
56:35
board when
56:38
you did the Hendrix thing I'm just wondering if Trinity
56:40
if you've had your hit by that point if
56:42
you've had this wheels on fire at
56:46
that point I don't think we had okay
56:48
but it was coming shortly yeah right and
56:50
it was funny because those were
56:53
tapes that were sent you know everybody
56:55
knows about the tapes the
56:57
tapes the
56:59
basement tapes this is this is
57:01
a basement tapes and by the
57:03
time they got to us there was
57:05
only two two songs left there
57:08
was this was on fire and I
57:10
think you know the tears of joy or something
57:12
like that you know I'd have listened to this
57:14
and I thought I can't do anything with this
57:16
it doesn't work you know
57:19
now this works to a kind of
57:21
rock beat that I know about you know
57:24
and then I thought to myself look here
57:26
August you're you're
57:28
a jazz player don't forget that you
57:31
know you've heard walking
57:33
bass before now get
57:36
on with it and I thought right
57:38
okay well whoever that is you're
57:42
probably right because I could
57:44
make it like more like a march at
57:46
that particular time it was very you know
57:48
there was some very strange lyrics floating around
57:50
because it was that kind of time you
57:52
know we're gonna need to zip along a
57:55
bit now unfortunately Brian oh I know I
57:58
know her you know need to zip along.
58:01
Anyway, let me know. How
58:04
was the Zeppelin crowd by the way when
58:06
you went out with them? Were you feeling
58:08
your way through that
58:11
as there was something happening? Because in a way
58:13
you were going to move from Wills on Fire
58:16
and making a single into the
58:18
sort of bands who weren't making singles.
58:20
So eventually you end up with
58:23
Brian Auger's Oblivion Express in
58:26
a more sophisticated world of music. Well,
58:30
what I was trying to do was I
58:32
was trying to drag some of the
58:35
things I learned harmonically from
58:37
the jazz side of things into
58:41
melding it with the rock and roll
58:43
beat and trying to make
58:46
a sort of bridge between the ones. You
58:49
were basically on the idea of
58:51
fusion basically before everyone was
58:53
doing fusion. Yeah. Right.
58:55
I hate the word fusion. It's
58:58
an American term. This
59:01
isn't fusion. It's
59:03
music. In fact, John Paul Jones from Led
59:05
Zeppelin, I once heard him give it up
59:08
when he says, look at
59:10
jazz. He said he hates the phrase jazz
59:12
rock because it's the worst elements from both
59:14
those types of music. No,
59:17
but without doubt, I mean, if we're
59:20
jumping forward to Oblivion Express, I mean,
59:22
your first album, A Better Land, which Guy and I
59:24
have been raving about. It's
59:27
so ahead of its time, isn't it? Yeah. It's
59:30
fun in there. But it's also, it
59:33
hasn't the sort of jazzy, funky stuff
59:36
so much of your other stuff. It's
59:38
got like Laurel Canyon and Stevie Dan.
59:40
Yes. That
59:42
was a try because there were a couple
59:44
of, there were me and Jim
59:47
Mullen that were the writers. Yeah,
59:49
that right. You know, and
59:51
I thought, well, I
59:54
think we should expose the two
59:56
poles here of the writing
59:59
and see. you know when you
1:00:01
when you the next move was into second
1:00:03
wind um oh
1:00:06
who's playing bass? who's playing bass? I couldn't find this.
1:00:09
Who's who's could the bass playing on better land
1:00:11
is fantastic um that
1:00:13
was it'll come to it'll come to
1:00:15
me and uh I'll tell it to no
1:00:20
it was a great bass player actually yeah
1:00:22
really but you know just just for
1:00:25
our listeners that album highly recommended I
1:00:27
discovered that album and it is astonishing
1:00:29
well it was the beginning of the
1:00:31
prog period as well
1:00:33
and when that came out I
1:00:36
got blizzed for that album you
1:00:39
know I thought I was like
1:00:41
my god I maybe I'm losing
1:00:43
it completely right you know but
1:00:46
anyway second wind came and that
1:00:49
was the end of a dark
1:00:51
and difficult period for me and
1:00:54
I just kind of began to
1:00:56
pull myself up to the surface
1:00:58
again and I sat down I went second
1:01:07
wind my
1:01:10
second wind is blowing that's
1:01:14
how that that came you know
1:01:16
but there's I think there's a
1:01:19
I think on there there's a another tune
1:01:21
that I wrote called uh
1:01:23
there's an eagle flying yeah
1:01:28
children cry and save the world
1:01:31
from dying uh
1:01:35
help us and I know
1:01:37
look at it now there's
1:01:42
a politician in
1:01:45
the old tradition selling
1:01:49
superstition to us yeah I'm
1:01:51
gonna do that all of
1:01:53
them but
1:01:56
you mentioned prog and I just want to mention a
1:01:58
band that has not been mentioned on this
1:02:00
program before. Which is
1:02:02
Mogul Thrash. It's Job Wayne.
1:02:04
Did you come across this guy? So
1:02:07
Brian produced Mogul Thrash. I think there's
1:02:09
only one track out there on the
1:02:11
internet, which is I think is Dancing
1:02:13
in the Kitchen or something or one
1:02:15
of those. Oh you're sleeping in the
1:02:17
kitchen. Sleeping in the kitchen, thank you.
1:02:19
Which is where this band
1:02:22
was. Job
1:02:25
Wayne singing there. Job Wayne. A lot of things
1:02:27
started to kind of fall to bits at that
1:02:29
time and at least
1:02:31
I managed to get some money,
1:02:34
use it to make a
1:02:37
recording or two of those guys. They were
1:02:40
pretty amazing I must say. You
1:02:42
know they went forward to
1:02:45
make the average white band. Yeah,
1:02:48
yeah. Both the drummers from
1:02:50
Average White Band. Yeah,
1:02:52
amazing. Do you know
1:02:55
what we should mention as well? Because we had
1:02:57
Graham Goldman on the show a few weeks ago
1:02:59
talking about For Your Love, The Yardbirds. You played
1:03:01
keyboards on that didn't you? When you meant to
1:03:03
come in and play the Hammond but one wasn't
1:03:05
there? I
1:03:07
thought that that's exactly what should have
1:03:09
happened and I got a call from
1:03:11
Paul Samwell-Smith.
1:03:14
Right, can you come and play on
1:03:16
a you know on our single? I
1:03:19
said yeah sure. Where are
1:03:21
you? And he says we're in this we're
1:03:24
in this little kind of recording
1:03:26
studio and it's opposite the BBC.
1:03:28
I said right okay what time are you
1:03:30
going to be there? He said well we're there already. I
1:03:32
said right okay I'll get on the tube. So
1:03:35
I went up there and found
1:03:37
this place and knocked on the door and went in.
1:03:39
Samwell-Smith says well I'm
1:03:43
going to play this tune Brian and you know
1:03:45
whatever you want to do. I said
1:03:47
wait a minute where's the
1:03:50
organ? Oh no they they ain't
1:03:52
got no organ in a place like this. I
1:03:55
said what about a piano?
1:03:57
No, no they ain't got a piano either. birds
1:04:00
right so yeah you think that's what you
1:04:02
need. They've only got this. This
1:04:05
was some weird kind of
1:04:07
shape in the corner with a tarpaulin
1:04:09
over it so we hoisted
1:04:12
it off and there
1:04:14
gleaming in the sunshine
1:04:17
was the double-tier
1:04:20
harpsichord you
1:04:22
know I said because we were pretty
1:04:24
good pranksters anyway you know all right
1:04:26
you got me no no
1:04:28
no no I'm serious like let me play
1:04:30
you this tune and I said
1:04:33
well what do you want on it and he said well I I
1:04:36
want an intro and then I
1:04:38
want you to really like push the
1:04:40
rhythms all the way through
1:04:42
so I said well all right put it on so he
1:04:45
did and when I listened to it
1:04:47
I went hmm well what
1:04:49
I can do for you is you see the
1:04:51
beginning now I can use those
1:04:53
chords of the tune but
1:04:55
I can roll them out as an
1:05:00
intro
1:05:02
and
1:05:05
then it went on from there man
1:05:07
it took about yeah it's like a
1:05:09
video was bored I mean I think
1:05:11
so but hang on so then so
1:05:13
the tracks already record was the track
1:05:15
already recorded no okay no it went
1:05:17
from there so they all that sounds like you're
1:05:19
in some sort of voiceover studio or something I
1:05:22
thought about it when I was I was on
1:05:24
my way back down to get
1:05:29
on the tube again I thought it was
1:05:32
a weird weird place and
1:05:34
then I thought well maybe it's
1:05:36
just to background vocals or so
1:05:39
it's amazing is what
1:05:41
that song would have sounded like if
1:05:43
they hadn't called you because I'm so
1:05:45
lindsay yeah yeah I don't
1:05:49
know man just after that everyone wanted what
1:05:51
he dopsied called on their records did they
1:05:53
yeah well I was going down
1:05:56
I was going down to get on
1:05:58
the tube again and I went These
1:06:00
guys are completely crazy, you know. They
1:06:03
all bar me. Who is going to buy
1:06:05
a single with hearts a chord
1:06:07
on it? That's what I have to say. And
1:06:10
boy, I was only a
1:06:12
million or two sales out. Yeah,
1:06:14
yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you playing now,
1:06:16
Brian? Is the Blybin Express still going
1:06:18
out at all? Are you still playing
1:06:20
gigs? No, I'm not. No,
1:06:23
I'm kind of retired at this point,
1:06:25
having done about 60 years
1:06:27
touring, you know. It's
1:06:30
nice to stay and see my grandchildren
1:06:33
and hang out with them. But
1:06:35
it looks like you've still got a set up there. You're
1:06:37
still playing, aren't you? Yes, I am. I
1:06:40
still play and I still write
1:06:42
stuff. Anyway,
1:06:44
a French guy who used
1:06:46
to play piano in a bordello wrote
1:06:49
these three things called a gymnopathy.
1:06:52
Oh, yes, called a saucy. Yes,
1:06:54
saucy. That's it. You know,
1:06:56
and I've got two of them. I've
1:06:59
written and I'm working
1:07:02
on the third because they're so nice,
1:07:04
you know. Brian,
1:07:06
it's been a pleasure talking to you and
1:07:09
hearing some of those amazing stories. Yes, there's
1:07:11
plenty of them. Anyway,
1:07:14
you know, I mean, it
1:07:16
was your time. It was an amazing period.
1:07:19
And anyway, it's been a great pleasure to
1:07:21
talk to you guys. And,
1:07:23
you know, maybe we'll do it again at some
1:07:25
point. Yeah. And if we're over on the left.
1:07:28
I was pointing out because it was actually pointed
1:07:30
out by Mark Lusty, the guy who sort of
1:07:32
sorted this out, who I was at school with. But
1:07:35
today was International Jazz Day. So there
1:07:37
you go. Hmm. You know,
1:07:39
it's really funny, man, because the
1:07:42
first thing that the
1:07:44
upper crust used to ask me was,
1:07:47
you were you
1:07:49
classically trained? I said,
1:07:51
no, no, I wasn't. Actually, I'm
1:07:54
you know, I just kind of got it together
1:07:56
myself. There was no schools or
1:07:58
anything like that. And
1:08:00
I thought to myself, all
1:08:02
these years later, Jazz
1:08:04
arrived because a
1:08:06
lot of the guys
1:08:10
unfortunately had to fight in
1:08:13
the civil war over here, which was
1:08:15
diabolical, when you think of
1:08:18
it all, left a
1:08:20
lot of their instruments lying around down in
1:08:22
the south where they got a hammering. There
1:08:26
is where these things
1:08:28
were picked up and
1:08:31
some people started getting
1:08:33
really good at it and then two
1:08:36
or three people got together and it
1:08:38
got even better. Yeah, because before then it
1:08:41
was just the guitar, then suddenly it
1:08:43
was the keyboard and the trumpet. Yeah,
1:08:45
of course. And then suddenly people couldn't
1:08:47
afford them, could they? No.
1:08:51
And there were no schools to go
1:08:53
to to learn Jazz, but
1:08:55
what you could do is, if you
1:08:57
were working in the field with
1:09:00
the 11 foot cotton sack, you
1:09:02
could say terrible things about
1:09:04
the boss if you sang
1:09:06
them. If you
1:09:08
actually said them face to face, they'd
1:09:10
probably hang you. It's
1:09:14
just absolute madness. But
1:09:17
anyway, gentlemen,
1:09:20
thank you. That's Brian, thank you so
1:09:22
much, man. Thank you so
1:09:24
much and I hope we do
1:09:26
this again. Oh, so do I,
1:09:28
man. Fantasticly entertaining. Hey, what a
1:09:30
sweet guy. What a lovely guy. That was
1:09:32
amazing. That was the
1:09:34
nearest to an Ealing comedy we've ever had.
1:09:37
I mean, some of the things you were saying, it was almost like, it's
1:09:40
like sort of Spike Milligan
1:09:42
meets Christopher Walken. Yeah, oh
1:09:45
yeah. There's a bit of Robert De
1:09:47
Niro in there at times. I
1:09:49
was definitely saying Robert. Talking to me. But,
1:09:52
you know, I actually think I like these when we
1:09:54
talk to these, this older generation, like we have
1:09:56
Marty Wildon at one point. And
1:10:00
who was the producer we had on from Mahou? Oh,
1:10:03
Shall Tell Me. Shall Tell Me. So you know,
1:10:06
they just go back more into the roots of
1:10:08
where we all came from. And it seemed to
1:10:10
me that when he was describing his house being
1:10:12
blown up by a
1:10:14
doodle bug, and that noise, kind of
1:10:16
what they were, you know, rock and
1:10:19
roll was trying to reproduce in a way. More
1:10:21
of that noise. Louder
1:10:23
than war. Yeah,
1:10:25
louder than bombs. On
1:10:28
that note. That was an amazing little
1:10:30
history lesson at the end about, which
1:10:32
is so true, about the Civil War,
1:10:34
meaning there were all these instruments left
1:10:37
around. That was really interesting. Yeah. Really
1:10:39
interesting. Brilliant. Yeah. Very
1:10:41
nice episode. We'd
1:10:43
like to thank Ben, of course, who produces
1:10:46
our show. Lewis. Ben Jones, every week
1:10:48
for Gimme Sugar. And I'm
1:10:50
gonna go see you next week. We've got someone else on, haven't
1:10:53
we? There'll be someone. We'll think of something. We'll pull something out
1:10:55
of the hat. All right, all the best. And it's a good
1:10:57
night from me. And good night from them. Rock
1:11:01
Hunters is produced by Gimme Sugar Productions
1:11:03
for Warner Music Group UK. Hold
1:11:11
up. What was that? Boring. No
1:11:13
flavour. That was as bad as
1:11:15
those leftovers you ate all week.
1:11:18
Keke Palmer here. And it's time
1:11:20
to say hello to something fresh
1:11:22
and guilt-free. HelloFresh. Jazz up dinner
1:11:24
with pecan, crusted chicken, or garlic
1:11:26
butter shrimp scampi. Now that's music
1:11:28
to my mouth. HelloFresh. Let's
1:11:31
get this dinner party started. Discover
1:11:33
all the delicious possibilities at hellofresh.com.
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