0:00

Todd and Rob in the afternoon. Afternoon

0:05

to love. With Todd and Rob.

0:09

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, it's

0:12

Oh, yeah. It it's Todd, Rob, and Adam

0:14

today, not just Todd and Rob. Oh, yeah. Hey, everybody. Welcome

0:21

to, the new media show, and, we're gonna

0:23

have fun today. Rob wrote an agenda.

0:27

Rob, why did you do that? Well, it's not an agenda in the

0:33

terms that, Adam typically thinks about it,

0:37

with his no agenda show. It's more just,

0:40

you know, things that we can cover on the show, but

0:43

there's nothing to stop us from venturing off this

0:48

agenda. Yeah. Absolutely. But,

0:51

hey, by the way, happy birthday to podcasting.

0:54

We passed it a bit ago. And by

0:56

the way, Rob, we went over 500 last

0:58

episode. We didn't even say even say anything.

1:01

We yeah. We're 501 now. So, you know,

1:03

your, cohost here failed in his duties to

1:05

say, hey. Happy 500. I don't even look at the number. Congratulations.

1:09

500 new media shows. That's that's pretty cool.

1:12

Yeah. It's not it's not bad. But we

1:14

are live and lit today. So, if you

1:17

are on one of those newfangled podcasting after podcast app.com, thank you so

1:21

much. Otherwise, we're, we're streaming live at new me new media

1:25

show dot com forward slash live and, of course, all the other great locations we go

1:29

to that, pittance of people watch.

1:33

But the more important thing, and most people that listen to this show actually listen and

1:38

don't watch. So, Adam, how are you?

1:43

I'm good. I I usually listen,

1:46

to the show. Although, I think last week

1:49

or the week before, I did have fun.

1:52

I was I was listening on, Podcast Guru,

1:55

and, like, let me just see how ugly they are. And so I popped up, the

1:59

YouTube, and then there was a chat going on in the YouTube. I'm like, oh, that's

2:02

kinda fun. So, you know, I'm always a sucker for

2:05

a good chat to troll along. Oh, they are trolling already.

2:09

Yeah. Of course. Yeah. They're saying in the morning.

2:12

Yeah. I see. So yeah. Absolutely. So it's

2:15

actually in the afternoon, but I we can't steal that one.

2:18

But, anyway, welcome. Thanks for taking time out

2:21

of your busy schedule. I know that, the keeper has you,

2:25

has you scheduled full. And Yeah.

2:29

Yeah. It's it's a busy life, but, you know,

2:31

she she keeps me grounded. She keeps me going. She keeps me social. It's very important

2:36

that I get out of the studio and do something else from time to time. So,

2:39

yeah, I'm I'm happy. And thank you for

2:41

inviting me. It's so nice to be back. It's been

2:44

2 years maybe since I've been on the show. Has it been that long now? Rob,

2:48

you failed you have failed in your guest campaigning duties.

2:52

Yeah. We've, I'm always

2:54

respectful of your time. I know you're very busy, and you got a lot of stuff

2:57

going on, but but it's great to have you back. And, Adam, I would love to

3:01

hear a little bit about,

3:04

you know, your No Agenda show that you have and kind of what you're what you're

3:08

seeing in the space and what you're trying

3:10

that's that's new. I know that show has always been

3:13

a little bit of the leading edge of your thoughts about podcasting. And if you wanted

3:18

to start off there, that'd be great. Yeah. Sure.

3:21

Well, first of all, this month, October, actually,

3:24

it'll be 17 years that we've been doing

3:26

No Agenda. And,

3:29

probably 16 years 9 months since we've been doing

3:32

it value for value, which is,

3:35

is just unbelievable. You know, we ask people to support

3:39

the show with time, talent, or treasure,

3:42

and they've been doing that diligently. I think after

3:46

5 or 6 years, it was enough for

3:49

us to really start to think about doing

3:51

it full time. It wasn't great, but, it

3:54

certainly has built up over time. And,

3:58

in a funny way, we've been way ahead

4:00

of the curve on some things, because we've

4:02

been producing the show live for at least

4:06

15 and a half years. And I can't actually I mean, of course,

4:10

I I do interviews and stuff, and there

4:12

are a couple of shows that I don't necessarily do live. But, man, I love it

4:16

so much because we have a chat, which we call

4:19

the troll room. And, really, anyone can say

4:21

and do whatever they want. But it's, it's

4:24

an IRC based chat, so it just kinda scrolls off. There's no

4:28

no history of it, and someone may save

4:30

it. But, so, you know, you could, ah, someone trolled

4:34

me and they said something nasty, but it's gone within, you know, 30 seconds. Like, okay.

4:37

It's gone. But I've really developed a,

4:41

kind of a peripheral vision. It's always kind

4:43

of right off to the side, and and

4:46

I see stuff Just it registers like, oh,

4:48

I look, and then the there's a a funny one liner or there's a a real

4:52

time fact check. You know, he said something wrong or dumb or stupid

4:55

or someone actually has something to contribute. That's

4:58

been really good. And in general, you know, this is the big secret of

5:02

the no agenda show is the value for

5:04

value really has gone to all parts of

5:07

it. We have tens of thousands of producers.

5:09

We don't call them listeners. We don't call them fans. We call them producers, and everyone

5:14

has a responsibility to contribute to the show

5:16

one way or the other. And pretty much

5:18

everybody has one thing they're knowledgeable about, you

5:22

know, one Mhmm. One particular topic or subject or it's their

5:26

job. And we, of course, we saw that during COVID, we had a lot of nurses,

5:30

doctors, registered nurses, pharmacists,

5:34

emergency workers, people in military, just all kinds of stuff

5:38

they were getting firsthand. And so, you know, Boeing's on strike. We

5:42

got people at Boeing. You know, we've got everything. Someone is in a place somewhere,

5:48

and we, we treat, our boots on the ground

5:52

reports with respect. And if someone wants to

5:54

be anonymous, we can assure that. As long

5:56

as you send it to me, don't send it to Dvorak, then you're assured of anonymity.

6:00

And that's really been, you know, the big,

6:04

success of the show is that,

6:07

it it's an ongoing collaborative,

6:10

work. So at this point, you know, people have

6:13

actually gotten to the level can we play

6:16

well, we probably have about 90 to a

6:18

100 clips for each show. We play

6:21

60 to 70, I'd say. Oh, and it's

6:23

short clips, you know, minute to 2 minutes,

6:25

somewhere in that range. So there's people who send stuff in ready

6:29

made. You know, we have this whole concept of

6:33

the meetups where people organize

6:36

meetups through no agenda meetups.com, which we didn't put together, of course.

6:41

One of our sir Daniel, manages that. He built that site. And there's

6:46

probably 10 meetups every single week all around the

6:49

world where people just get together, and they're, you know, they're not of the

6:54

same age group or background or race or religion,

6:58

but they have this one thing in common, which is the show.

7:01

And, of course, as as with all good,

7:04

clubs, cults, and communities, we have our own

7:07

little language. So in the morning, hit them

7:09

in the mouth, the 33, douchebag, spook, spot

7:12

the spook, I mean, all this kind of

7:14

stuff, which is is is normal for any

7:17

type of community. And so that really creates

7:20

a bond. And, and we have some pretty good groups out

7:23

there. I think of the people in Florida or Indianapolis

7:26

or in the Netherlands, and they get together regularly. And it's 50

7:30

to a 100 people at a time, and they've become friends. There's, I think, there's 1

7:34

or 2 marriages have come out of it.

7:36

So to me, it really proves that,

7:39

you know, I, I kind of believe that where we're at

7:42

now is the future of all media is

7:44

going to be small, and small dedicated audiences are really the way

7:50

to go, you know, thinking that you can be the number one this

7:53

or the biggest that. It's old fashioned. It's,

7:56

it's old fashioned thinking because no one can

7:59

do it. Even Hollywood can't do it anymore.

8:01

They're trying to be the biggest and the

8:03

number one streamer and have the best packages,

8:05

and they're all kind of failing. They're not able to pull it off,

8:08

because that's just not the way the network operates.

8:12

And this is something that we I think

8:15

we all collectively saw it 20, 25 years

8:18

ago, and now it's finally starting to take

8:20

shape where, you know, the first thing to

8:23

go, obviously, is the written word in its

8:25

many forms. So news by itself is no longer a

8:29

a product. The way they were financing it before was,

8:33

you know, kind of, was

8:39

what's the word I'm looking for? They all kinda the the news people always

8:44

thought that people were buying newspapers for the news.

8:47

But, no, they're buying it for the classified ads. The classified ads paid for the news.

8:52

News was always a subsidized product until you

8:54

got cable news, and, you know, that is

8:57

now almost wholly, financed by, big pharmaceutical companies who advertise. So,

8:59

you know, authenticity is what people are looking for,

9:08

and they're looking for, real voices they can connect to.

9:12

And that's kind of the spot where we're

9:15

at. And so when Dave Jones and I

9:17

started, Podcast Index 4 years ago, I mean, I'm

9:21

just delighted with with what's come out of

9:23

that because we really created a place where

9:26

innovation happens, where different types of thinking goes into newer

9:31

podcast apps. You know, there's still, you know,

9:34

like, well, we've gotta get Apple to do it, and I just don't I don't buy

9:37

into that. I don't subscribe to that philosophy.

9:40

You know, we can have our own apps, and we can have ones that each different

9:45

show uses, and you can do whatever you want. And that's really the beauty of the

9:49

original invention of RSS. You know, it wasn't

9:52

I was listening to what was that? Slates was like The Last

9:57

Slate podcast. Some who I forget who it was,

10:02

but she had on some some English dude

10:04

who was, you know, podcast analyst. And, like,

10:07

well, you know, podcasting, of course, they screwed

10:09

it up in the beginning because they made it impossible to track anything. Yeah. Because we

10:13

weren't thinking about that. We were just thinking about It wasn't the priority. Right. Yeah. It

10:17

wasn't the priority, and that never has been.

10:20

And, you know, to to the credit of of RSS, it's,

10:24

you know, it's bulletproof. No one can really break it. It's here

10:29

to stay. It's a part of the underpinnings

10:32

of the entire Internet, and it does enable anybody to say whatever

10:38

they want. And with the, with the advent of the

10:42

index, know, you're pretty much guaranteed it'll be

10:44

there and not at the whim of a Silicon Valley company or Apple or whoever wants

10:49

to be the on ramp to podcasting. So,

10:52

in a way, the goals have been achieved

10:56

and and and, you know, beyond any belief.

10:59

And I'm just delighted to see that it

11:01

continues to flourish, and it's still a topic

11:04

of hot debate and controversy. That means it's still relevant.

11:09

You know, I saw this kind of, you know, you're relating to, you know, shows making

11:13

comments about surviving monetization,

11:16

gotta have a big staff. There was something

11:18

on x, from Alex Goldman.

11:21

And I don't even I'm not familiar with their show or what they do, but it's

11:24

I guess it's called hyperfixed. And he was

11:27

just complaining about how he's losing money and,

11:29

you know, he needs, his his day rate

11:31

is only $288 a day. And and I'm just kinda

11:34

giggling the whole time reading this thing,

11:37

And he's got a whole different perspective on

11:40

creating podcasts. And I replied back. I said,

11:42

just remember, you know, 90 to 95% of podcasts

11:47

are maybe even 97% of podcasts are

11:51

staff of 1 or 2. You know? Well, that's real and and that's

11:55

really, the the it's been the secret to our

11:58

success, not a secret, but that's been key,

12:01

is that there's 2 people who do no agenda. It's me, and it's John. Now because we positioned our audience

12:05

as our audience as producers, we have 10,000 producers,

12:08

and it's a lot of work. It's like cats. You know? You gotta herd them. You

12:12

know? I I have to go through my email diligently, excuse me, every single day because,

12:15

oh, yeah, there's that guy who just sent

12:18

me 10 emails. One of them is gonna be

12:24

a gem. So you you have to you you gotta put that work in, but that's

12:28

that's really all I do. So it it's

12:30

not all that horrible. You know? And a lot of it's like, check out this 3

12:34

hour podcast. It's great. Okay. So can you

12:37

give me some time codes or kind of where to find find stuff? But that's it.

12:41

I mean, I produce the entire show.

12:43

John does all the finances and administrative. His

12:47

wife, Mimi, does the taxes. We pay his, his daughter, Jay,

12:52

to manage the spreadsheet, which is it's a

12:55

tedious job, you know, to and and, of

12:57

course, we have you know, when you support

13:00

the show cumulatively up to a $1,000, you

13:02

get a you become a knight or a dame. You get a ring.

13:05

That's a lot of hassle to just do

13:07

that fulfillment and make sure it works perfectly.

13:10

And that's it. Those are our costs. I

13:12

mean, and it's just a a pass through LLC,

13:16

and and we've we actually we

13:19

we were doing it on a handshake for

13:21

for 12, 13 years until the IRS said,

13:24

what are you guys doing exactly? So how does that work? So then they

13:28

said, you know, you gotta put it into an LLC. So we literally have a three

13:32

line LLC document, and that's been it. And,

13:36

I think we've we've just been fortunate,

13:40

to have found each other. And, you know, we have a couple things

13:44

in common. One is we don't really like

13:46

each other that much, so we don't talk outside of the show. We're not friends. We're

13:50

not buddies. And, and we show up every single time,

13:55

and we show up on time, and we do it the same time. And,

13:59

and we we really are consistent. And then

14:02

the the one thing people always miss, and this

14:05

is a a very important piece that John

14:07

does, is we have a newsletter which goes out the day before every single

14:12

episode that that we that we record that

14:14

goes live to remind people in their busy

14:17

lives that no agenda is coming once again. And,

14:21

yes, we're reminding you to support it.

14:23

You know, it it goes back to even

14:26

deeper here. You know, the product your guys' production cost is your time.

14:30

That's your production cost. Yeah. And then you have the additional support of the team. So

14:34

when people say, I don't have budget for production, I'm like, sweat equity, baby. When I

14:38

was building blueberry and running a show and

14:40

working a job, I I worked 18, 20

14:42

hours a day and didn't sleep. People say,

14:44

how'd you get all that done? Sweat equity.

14:47

You know? That's that's what you had to do and grind.

14:51

And, you know, and this guy's complaining about

14:53

not making enough money. He's only making $18,000

14:56

an episode and I'm like, what's the problem?

14:59

That's not bad. 18,000 an episode. Yeah. Yeah.

15:02

That's pretty good. Pretty good. You know, and

15:04

I take that. And and then I'm like, you know, I'm thinking as a hosting provider

15:08

and this is I brought up this up a couple times recently. We have not raised

15:11

hosting prices since we introduced it in 2008.

15:15

People in the early days bitched about the

15:17

$20, the hosting cost. Man, they just scream

15:20

bloody murder. So now we are this many years later

15:23

and and the cost hasn't went up a penny.

15:26

Our costs have went up. You know, I had a 13% increase in,

15:30

you know, in health health insurances last year. We ate

15:33

it. We didn't raise prices. And why did

15:36

we rate why didn't we raise prices? We can't. There's 25

15:40

companies that are out there trying to, you know, keep customers. So I, you know, cry

15:45

me a river. You know? I I I

15:47

you know, it's like I do a show.

15:49

Rob and I do this show. We we

15:51

grind. And a lot of it's But but

15:54

but with everything, Todd, and we saw this

15:56

with blogs early on. People like, oh, I

15:59

just publish a blog, and I'll make money.

16:01

And, you know, I'll just do a podcast,

16:03

and I'll make money. And the, the podcast

16:06

industrial complex has, of course,

16:08

supported that vision. Like, oh, you know, you

16:10

can make money, and you just get enough people and grow sorry to say, grow your

16:14

show. Right. And then you can have ads, and then everything will be great. You can

16:17

quit your job. I mean, I've been through that loop. I've been through the quit your

16:21

day job loop. You know, when when we started,

16:26

pod show, we actually we set up we had a

16:29

network of podcasters. We set them up. We

16:31

had, I think, 12 or maybe 14.

16:34

We gave them we created LLCs for them.

16:37

We gave them varying degrees, but between $50,75,000

16:41

a year just as a guaranteed minimum income,

16:44

and then they could grow that amount based

16:46

upon their success. And even that, we couldn't we couldn't make

16:50

it work. You know? There's just there's there's

16:53

so much that is wrong with, podcasting and advertising. Yeah. It's really it you

16:59

know, it's just not an easy fit,

17:02

and we're seeing some of that now.

17:05

It's it is a situation too where

17:10

people forget that creating content is not necessarily the easiest thing

17:15

to do. You have you have to you have to work at it. And that's why

17:18

we say such high failure rates is because

17:21

shows say, oh, I'm gonna do a podcast and, you know, they give it 5 episodes

17:24

and they bounce. You know, they don't realize that, you know,

17:28

to create great content is good and if you are if sure if you're Oprah, you

17:32

can have a 1000000 people listen to you immediately.

17:34

Doesn't guarantee they're gonna continue to listen,

17:37

but, you know, Rob can probably attest to that having worked at, you know, the the

17:41

shop that had all the celebrities, you know, being He's worked at every shop. That's right.

17:46

He knows where all the dead bodies are buried

17:49

for sure. But Yeah. You know, it's just one

17:52

of those situations where you just have to grind.

17:56

And, you know, it's, I guess, you know, some

17:59

people are lucky and hit it big on TikTok or whatever and, you know, great great

18:03

for them. But this is the different kind of a medium where you gotta be able

18:06

to connect. You gotta connect right here.

18:10

Because It's an interesting time. I I agree,

18:13

Todd, you know, that there is such an emphasis on how I'm gonna make this a

18:17

full time career or a full time job, and I'm gonna make I'm gonna get rich

18:20

being a podcaster and stuff. That seems to be the agenda. So you have to

18:24

really kind of wonder, why that's happening. And I think a lot

18:28

of it gets back to is that people

18:31

are are increasingly looking to create their own independent income and because

18:35

they can't rely on getting jobs anymore. And

18:38

I think that is a bigger What? Bidenomics

18:40

isn't working? What? Exactly. We can't have that.

18:43

Right? So as as people look at,

18:48

podcasting, I I think increasingly

18:50

it is replacing mainstream media, and this really

18:54

goes along with what you're what you're saying,

18:56

Adam, is that we are moving into a

18:59

new era of niche communities and niche interests, and also taking

19:04

this content out of these big

19:08

moderated platforms and going more direct. And

19:12

so so talk about that a little bit,

19:14

about the community dynamics and

19:17

really moving away from these big proprietary platforms.

19:21

Well, it's what what podcasting has always been

19:23

good at. Oh, I know. When it when

19:25

it first started, you know, it was very obvious you had

19:30

there's always some shows that are kind of

19:32

general funny, but now it seems like most

19:37

most of the shows that don't really have a mission are more politically oriented.

19:43

But we've always had aviation podcasts, hiking podcasts,

19:47

you know, football podcasts, football podcasts.

19:50

You know, that's always been been really,

19:53

been really, that's always been there. What I feel right now is the big

19:57

opportunity, which I'm actually working on myself,

20:01

is, local markets. They've been completely ignored by radio.

20:06

Radio is no longer, your your even z 100 in New York

20:10

where I worked for many years. You know, it's Elvis Duran in the morning, but he's

20:14

in 15 markets. And, yeah, you'll hear a,

20:16

you know, a localized z 100 New York,

20:19

jingle, but that doesn't mean that he's really

20:22

he's do he has to do more generalized stuff. Mhmm.

20:25

There's almost no well, I mean, New York does still have

20:29

some New York newspapers, but even they cater

20:31

more now towards, the entire

20:35

country or the entire world like the New

20:37

York Post. Mhmm. And the New York Times certainly is is

20:41

really no longer a local New York newspaper. Mhmm.

20:46

Facebook has sucked up all the local advertising

20:49

from any type of publication in any local market.

20:53

So I feel that at this point, there's

20:56

a tremendous opportunity to create podcasts based upon

20:59

very hyper local geographical

21:02

location. In fact, I'm gonna be doing one for

21:05

Fredericksburg right here. It's 11 a half 1000

21:07

people. We have, we're in between,

21:11

San Antonio and Austin. So, you know Mhmm.

21:14

Even even what Austin does is almost not

21:17

just for Austin. There's a lot of interesting people here. There's

21:21

certainly a lot of of money in Fredericksburg,

21:25

and we have one newspaper that comes out

21:27

once a week and is very politically slanted.

21:30

And people haven't have nothing to to really

21:33

you know, they have they have no local

21:36

voice. So, you know, it's it's such an obvious

21:40

hole in the market. You could you could

21:42

turn a 747 around in it. So and that's globally. Every

21:46

that's what radio used to do. Radio was

21:49

local, and it just became so so, I

21:52

mean, this all happened in the eighties nineties. Just, you know, let's expand and get bigger

21:56

in acquisitions and, you know, networks. And, like, WABC New

22:00

York has all syndicated programming that goes out

22:03

across all the country. So,

22:06

and, you know, and AM radio is is

22:08

in essence going away, although congress is deaf

22:11

you know, desperately trying to keep it in,

22:13

but in in in cars, but electric vehicles have a real problem with

22:19

the with static. I mean, it's basically like

22:21

holding up a hairdryer next to your AM

22:24

radio so that they're not quite sure what to do and how to how to do

22:27

that. So, you know, that's the opportunity I see,

22:32

and I'm pretty sure that, that that's going

22:35

to happen. I think we'll see in the next couple of years, we'll see many

22:39

hyper is that you or is that me? Who's beeping?

22:42

It might be me. Okay. Many,

22:46

hyper localized podcasts that will be thriving because

22:50

local communities will support it, whether they're supporting

22:53

it with donations or I can certainly see

22:56

if I'm here in Fredericksburg and, you know, I have if I have

23:00

600 people listening, and there's 600 people that matter, I'm pretty

23:05

sure Vaudeville down the street is gonna say,

23:07

you know, why don't you do an ad for me? You know? And I'll do it,

23:10

and I'll go there and eat and tell everybody what I thought about it. So, you

23:13

know, it it seems like we can get

23:15

back to that, and that's that's a big opportunity.

23:19

But, also, people want to be a part

23:21

of it. So you need and we need to go back to

23:24

how do people interact, how do they get their voice heard.

23:28

So whether that's a direct feedback on a

23:30

chat, which you can read live, or even

23:32

having people call in. I mean, we're we're going back to that. This is nothing is

23:36

new. It's all been done before. It's just a cycle, and we're coming around.

23:40

And, luckily, we're able to do it because

23:43

it's so you know, thanks to companies like I'll I'll give them that

23:48

plug, although they've never even talked to me

23:50

or ever sent me anything at all for free. It's outrageous.

23:53

I've always purchased everything from them.

23:57

I think they've made it very accessible for

24:00

anyone to kinda get started.

24:03

You know, talk about the local thing. I was in the dentist office recently, and I

24:06

didn't even know my local town still had a newspaper. And there there was one laying

24:10

on the counter there. Of course, the dentist office says where you're gonna find it. Right?

24:13

Three pages. A weekly three pages with what

24:16

happened in high school and Right. And I'm thinking there's about 25,000

24:20

people maybe that that reaches and I'm thinking, wow. How and, of course,

24:24

no one reads a newspaper anymore. Not local

24:27

for sure. So, you know, I think there is an

24:30

opportunity and you know Rob Greenlee

24:33

has been a big fan of

24:37

local podcast for years. You've been waiting for

24:39

it, Rob. So, you should be excited with Adam's Got Cook

24:42

in here. Yeah. I I really kind of always felt

24:46

this way that this is ultimately where we

24:48

would head once we reached a certain saturation

24:51

point of podcast listeners, right, that this would

24:54

unlock. And I thought it was interesting not to

24:57

draw kind of a political slant to what's happening here, but I did

25:01

notice that George Soros purchased 220,

25:04

local radio stations here in the last week

25:07

or so, which I thought was a little bit counter to what a lot of people,

25:12

would would expect. Right? And

25:14

I think it was really, really interesting. I think he bought it

25:17

from Odysee, I think was the was the

25:20

network. And it does kinda point to maybe

25:22

a little bit of what you're talking about here, Adam, is that is that the the

25:26

network is shifting, to

25:29

driving local communications

25:32

more and not so much, exclusively

25:36

these these national syndicated kind of kind of,

25:40

content on the radio. So this is kind

25:42

of a a a radio play that may be playing

25:46

out. And I do I mean, how do

25:49

you see it playing out? I mean, if you think about what George Soros did, which

25:53

is seems contrary to where most of the

25:56

investors are putting money, Actually, they're pulling out

25:59

of syndicated radio not putting money in. Right? So is

26:04

there a contrary kind of view on this?

26:07

And it sounds like you're kind of, you

26:09

know, doing that. First, the headline is George

26:13

Soros buys 200 radio stations. Okay. That's not

26:16

exactly the story. It's not? Okay. Good. The

26:20

Soros, Soros hedge fund, which as far as I

26:23

know is really now run by Alex. George

26:26

is barely alive, so we could probably,

26:28

you know, leave him to he doesn't need

26:31

to be the boogeyman anymore. It's Alex, who's probably worse.

26:36

But they bought up Odysee's debt.

26:39

So they bought up $400,000,000 worth of debt. So they they collectively now,

26:45

I think, control 40% of the shares. That

26:48

doesn't mean that you immediately have control over

26:51

the programming or that, you know, some evil Soros genius

26:55

is saying they go, stroking the white pussy.

26:59

And now we will make it all liberal

27:02

content. Alright. I think it's probably one of

27:04

I mean, there will be money in in

27:06

radio stations still for years to come, just

27:09

like there would still be money in cable. But if you look at the the,

27:14

and I'd happen to know these numbers, the

27:16

average age of, and these are mainly AM stations, a

27:20

lot, not all, but a lot of them. The average age is 74,

27:25

and they are going to ride their audiences

27:27

into heaven. So, yeah, it's probably a good

27:29

deal on paper because you can squeeze some

27:32

money out of it. I think, if anything, they'll probably

27:36

sell off bits and pieces of it. But, you know, even the the church ladies

27:41

text group, you know, like, oh my god. Yo. Hair on fire. Soros is going to

27:45

control the airwaves. You know? No.

27:49

The today's millennials and Zoomers are not listening to the

27:53

radio at all At all. At all.

27:56

And, they're listening to podcasts. They're,

28:00

you know, they're getting their media from other

28:02

places. If anything, they're kind of turning away

28:04

from some of that as well. The the

28:06

real places, you need to be in everyone's text groups. That's that's where all the real

28:11

communication takes place. So this is a typical,

28:14

you know, buy up the debt cheap, and,

28:16

you know, there's gonna be a restructuring, so they're gonna have to sell off stations.

28:20

It's not like he bought the stations, and

28:22

right away, it's gonna be Rachel Maddow 247.

28:25

That's just not the case here. Yeah. So

28:29

probably what what they'll do is find somebody

28:31

else to sell it to at a margin, probably. Right? I think they'll sell off the

28:34

pieces. They'll sell off different stations.

28:37

That that's I mean, it's it's chapter 11,

28:40

so, they're in restructuring. So it has to be

28:42

restructured, you know, but if you can buy up

28:45

that debt at 50¢ on a dollar or

28:48

lower but they don't have a controlling interest,

28:51

and so that doesn't mean that I I what I haven't seen is and they brought

28:55

in this incredibly smart radio guy, and he's

28:57

gonna turn it all around because no one

28:59

has been able to do that. They haven't been able to do it with Iheart. They

29:03

can't do it anywhere. I mean, it's just

29:05

it's not a viable business anymore. It's too

29:08

expensive to run transmitters.

29:11

You know, that was when we first started podcasting. Transmitters? We don't need no stinking transmitters.

29:16

That was the whole point of it. And, you know, you just

29:20

can't the genie's out of the box. You know?

29:23

People are have connected their phones to their

29:25

car systems, and they're listening to other content.

29:28

You know, when it it the handwriting on

29:31

was on the wall even when we just

29:33

started podcasting. You know? It probably for me, it was

29:37

biggest realization was is when my kids are

29:40

when my kids were still kids and they're

29:42

in the back seat and they both have

29:44

mobile devices and they're plugged in and dad's

29:46

got something on Bluetooth and they're not listening

29:48

to what I'm listening and they're listening to their own thing. I'm like, radio is doomed.

29:53

And media is doomed because media has changed.

29:56

You know, that was 16, 17 years ago.

29:58

So now, you know, of course, we all

30:00

know that, my grown children are not

30:04

on a radio. They're they don't have a TV subscription. Matter of fact, they're mad because

30:08

we can't family share Hulu no more. You

30:10

know? So that's the kind of thing that and, you know, that they they worry about

30:15

now is, like, you kinda can't afford all my subscriptions to the stuff that I want.

30:18

And so what are they reverting to? Well, I can't share Hulu, so now I'm just

30:21

gonna go and watch YouTube, or I'm gonna go on TikTok or so they're consuming stuff

30:26

differently, and that's just gonna continue. So

30:29

Well, also, that that brings up another point.

30:31

The with the,

30:34

with the fading out of radio, you are also removing the scarcity,

30:40

issue. So in you know, on radio, you have

30:43

24 hours a day. You've got, you know,

30:46

12 to 20 minutes an hour of advertising.

30:49

And when that's full, it's full. And the only thing that can happen is either expand

30:53

it more or you raise the prices. With podcasting,

30:56

just as with, you know, web banners back

30:59

in the day, there's unlimited inventory.

31:02

So dynamically inserted ads, pre rolls, post rolls, all

31:06

of that will eventually just go down to

31:08

0. The only scarcity you can still create is

31:11

how many host reads someone is willing to

31:13

do inside the body of the content. Right.

31:16

That's that's your only scarcity, and

31:19

that's going to be very limited. And I think you you will actually be able to

31:22

drive up that CPM over time,

31:26

but it'll not be based upon downloads. It'll have to be based upon downloads. It'll have

31:29

to be based upon PI or per inquiry

31:33

of, you know, actually, when pod show was

31:35

very successful for a short while, and that short while is when we had,

31:41

coupon codes, promo codes. So it would be, you know, rock and

31:45

roll geek would be use geek 4 and

31:48

get your go because we had GoDaddy in in the early days too, then get your

31:51

GoDaddy domain. We actually started that with them

31:53

because they understood that really well, and they

31:56

were ramping up a business so fast. Unfortunately, what happened there is these hosts of

32:02

these shows became very proficient at SEO,

32:06

and and no one was getting the codes from their show. They were getting it by

32:09

googling stuff, and then, oh Yeah.

32:12

This is the scam, and I'll expose it right here. That's how it works. We've talked

32:16

about it on here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's going to

32:20

have to be some other mechanism.

32:24

Like, maybe that's not even

32:27

here yet, although I think chapters and chapter

32:30

links within chapters is an interesting way to

32:33

do that. But it's still going to be

32:36

partially the endorsement by the host. Like, you

32:39

know, I'm saying that I go here, and

32:42

I probably should go there, or I should be using that product,

32:46

which limits, you know, what what products and services.

32:50

And, also, you know, the advertising is always

32:53

censorship. So, most advertisers

32:56

don't like controversy. So, again, it's it's a very tough fit,

33:00

but the the actual mechanics of, of scarcity

33:04

are gone with the Internet. It it just doesn't exist. How much inventory do you want?

33:08

We'll make more. Right. You know, it's what's

33:10

funny, Adam, is, speaking with GoDaddy, when they

33:14

came to me and said, hey. We think you should have a landing page for GoDaddy.

33:17

I'm like, sure. So I put up a landing page on my website, and little did

33:20

I know, about few years later,

33:24

All Become that became a, a snippet on Google search. I had a

33:28

great year that year. I mean, I I did. I mean, I had a I did.

33:31

I had a really good year. I mean, like Yeah. To the

33:35

point of embarrassment, good. But when that snippet

33:38

went away, so did the good times. The good times were over and went back down.

33:42

But at the same point, we set up a system because GoDaddy knew that that traffic

33:47

was still hitting that landing page and,

33:51

and getting those codes. That's no secret. And

33:53

I was watching the page rank on where that was falling in search.

33:56

Still today, as long as I meet my numbers, they

34:00

don't care where it comes from. And so what they're really paying even still

34:04

to this day is they are definitely paying for that landing page to be there to

34:08

to get people to use those codes on their site.

34:11

So there's no secret about it. They knew

34:13

that was happening because, you know, how can I do

34:17

years of GoDaddy ads every show

34:21

and still sell to new yeah? We have some podcast listeners that grab codes, but it's

34:26

probably, like, 90 10.

34:29

Probably 90% from the page, 10% from the

34:31

show at this point. Sure. So, you know, that's that's that's a given,

34:36

but, you know, that was that was a very, very good year that year. I got

34:39

that snippet in Google, but, and everybody knows that game. So

34:44

Mhmm. Yeah. But the Doctor codes, you know and here's another thing too that work, but

34:48

still won't be done. And we've been talking to people, like, they got these 500 shows

34:52

that will make a great one deal. And I know we don't wanna talk about advertising.

34:56

I wanna use one promo code for all 500 shows and they won't do it. You

35:00

know, it's like the 3 Musketeers, one for all. Right? Basically, we all we all live

35:04

and die together and, they won't do it. They wanna they

35:07

wanna cherry pick the shows they're really performing.

35:09

Little do they know the collective total number of reads using the same promo

35:13

code is gonna really be successful, but you

35:15

can't teach them nothing. They they know everything.

35:19

So meanwhile, 90% of podcasters of the 35%

35:22

that still want advertising are never gonna get

35:24

it, not until something changes. So

35:27

Well, nothing's gonna change in that regard. Yeah.

35:29

Nothing's gonna change. No. It's not gonna get

35:32

Hasn't changed for 20 years. You know, downloads

35:34

are a horrible metric. Everybody knows it. You know, it's it's kinda

35:38

it it's still you know, with the big

35:41

promise of advertising, which I've heard for many

35:43

years, we'll get the right ad to the right person exactly the right time. Podcasting can't

35:48

be a part of that ecosystem at all.

35:50

TikTok works pretty good. So people still know

35:53

that half their advertising money works, and they

35:55

don't know which half. I mean, that that's

35:58

still the same. Yeah. You know, you you spoke about RODE here earlier, and

36:02

we didn't really have it in the list, but RODE announced their RODE streamer today.

36:07

You know, it's kinda funny. If people saw

36:10

what was on the other side of this, their wallets would would,

36:14

you know, it it it's not a pretty situation money wise, but I made this investment

36:18

long time ago and I got all this gear.

36:21

Essentially, the box that I have that was

36:23

really probably, you know, I got some upgrades. It didn't

36:26

cost me as much, but maybe $35,000 worth of gear

36:29

is now in a box at 1195.

36:33

We'll do everything that the box I have right down here.

36:37

And it's been that way for a while with a different tools, but it's amazing.

36:43

This company that owns this now is

36:46

that market that was selling to me is gone because soon as that machine goes belly

36:50

up, you know, I'll I'll throw it in the

36:52

junk pile. There's and there's an I'll I'll

36:54

never come back to their company because of

36:56

this change. So I think this new road streamer with

37:00

no one not every no one's gonna need 6 cameras, but it could be a screen,

37:04

2 cameras, you know, someone on Zoom. It's just, you

37:08

know, it's a a mix of things that I think they're gonna hit. I think that

37:11

what the Rodecaster did for podcasting is going

37:14

to be the same for

37:17

streamers, those that stream. Yeah. Yeah, Todd. And

37:20

to be clear, that's 11 100 and Yeah.

37:22

119. $1,206.95.

37:26

Yeah. That would be a steal. But most people

37:29

didn't know they had a little streamer box already that I've I've had for more than

37:33

a year that I played with. It's kinda cool. They just took it and went you

37:37

know, they expanded it and took everything. Say, you know, I it

37:41

came out yesterday. I immediately went to the user guide and looked at everything, and, I get,

37:44

user guide and looked at everything, and, I

37:46

get immediate gadget envy. I'm like, if I was to build something that would

37:49

do this, this is exactly what I'd do.

37:51

Absolutely. Just like the Rodecaster, the Rodecaster Pro 2, I will say, that

37:59

finally hit Yep. All of the marks. And

38:01

it is exactly what I would in fact, I tried to build it, couldn't make it

38:04

work cost wise. It it's fantastic.

38:08

And I for a moment there, I even had the, like, well,

38:11

you know, we could I could do no agenda, and and I thought, you know Yeah.

38:16

Come on. Join us. Book. Come on. Not

38:18

every book needs to be a movie. Come

38:20

on. No. No. I just it was just pure envy.

38:24

I'm like, oh, man. I gotta set up cameras

38:27

and switch. It does a lot of interesting stuff with the auto switching, and it basically

38:31

has a whole RodeCaster Pro built into it.

38:35

Fabulous. I I wonder actually how well it will

38:39

do. I'm glad they did it. I'll let

38:41

you know in about a week. My Oh, so you're in a month. My

38:46

B and H rep says, Todd this was

38:48

the the subject of the email. Todd, you

38:50

need to check this out. And I had already read it in pod

38:54

podcasting news, you know, from article, and then

38:57

this popped in from B&H. I'm like, oh, there goes $1195

39:01

plus tax. So it'll be here on Friday.

39:05

I'm gonna take it with me to the Philippines. Fantastic. I'm sure it is. I'm sure

39:08

it's great. But Or it'll be not right

39:11

now, but after 5 updates, it might be

39:13

great. You know? And and I'll just get into

39:16

it so we can get it out of the way because, of course, we have to

39:19

have the video conversation because That's where I

39:21

was just about to go at. Show after

39:24

all. I understand the obsession of audiences

39:30

wanting to see how something is made,

39:34

because for years, you could really only listen

39:36

to radio. Again, not every book needs to be a

39:40

movie. I really

39:43

am a firm believer that it's much more

39:45

exciting to listen to something

39:48

and imagine or have your own mind's eye, your own

39:52

mind view of what the people look like, what they're

39:56

wearing, what they're doing, what their situation is.

39:59

It it has always had longevity. You can

40:02

multitask. I'm quite sure that most YouTube videos, unless

40:06

they're instructional, I mean, I watch YouTube videos for all

40:09

kinds of stuff, like, mainly airplanes I can't

40:12

afford. Like, oh, there's a it's only a

40:14

$150. Look how fast it goes.

40:17

Moving vicariously through the screen. Screen. Top 5 turbine airplanes

40:22

you can't afford. Okay.

40:24

And, of course, and or if I you know, for instructional stuff is fantastic

40:29

or looking at, you know,

40:32

older television shows. Oh, there's all kinds of stuff that's good for, but

40:36

I think interview shows, I I can see

40:38

the appeal of, being able to watch.

40:42

I just don't think it's all that,

40:45

all I don't think it's quite as desirable

40:48

as people think that it is Mhmm. Or

40:50

that the advertising industrial complex wants you to believe it is.

40:55

It's inherently dangerous to build your audience on any kind of

40:59

platform, you know, not my monkey, not my

41:02

circus. You know? It's like, oh, so it's it's none of that's a good

41:07

idea. It goes against the entire concept of

41:10

of RSS. And,

41:15

there is, of course, a universe of TikTok

41:19

videos and, and YouTube, but it's a very different type of experience.

41:23

And I'm not at all concerned about this

41:26

incessant need to go to video other than ad and it was kind of

41:30

fun to watch James Cridland say it out loud the other day in

41:34

pod news. Like, what? Wait a minute. They

41:37

this they only care about the money for

41:39

tracking ads and all that stuff. It's not

41:41

about actually people wanting video,

41:43

and it's not. I mean, 17 years

41:47

of 2 old dudes who are not really

41:49

appealing to watch on on video.

41:52

Although, I I understand because I when I first

41:54

saw radio shows, morning shows, set up webcams, I'm like,

41:59

I really don't see the appeal.

42:02

But there is an appeal. People have been listening for years years, and now they wanna

42:06

see and what do they look like. It's kind of like seeing how the sausage is

42:10

made, but it's really not

42:13

necessary. And, you know, not

42:16

we saw this with MTV. People still listen to music. We don't need

42:21

to have the music video all the time.

42:23

It's just not true. Music is music, and people like listening to

42:27

music. Does everyone have to have a video? Well,

42:31

kind of for promotional purposes, but it's still it's not the premier way

42:35

that people listen to music. They listen to

42:38

music. Well, it you know, and it's also much

42:41

harder. It's just like in my show the other night, I gave them 5 minutes of

42:44

a of a black screen, and I didn't realize it was a black screen till I

42:47

looked over my head. Just you, Todd. No one else has these problems.

42:52

So, you know, it's just like you you do one of these chits and, you know,

42:56

you're live. What can you do? And you just laugh it off and continue on.

43:00

I just think that, well, I'll transition.

43:05

Yeah. There there are

43:09

realizations in the space that

43:13

Spotify's got an angle right now that they're

43:15

using and it's be you know, in in YouTube is they've got an angle,

43:19

and it's and it's appealing angle to those

43:21

that think they want to do video. I think there's also a realization.

43:27

I'm just you know, I would just say based upon conversations I've had, I think that

43:30

there's a realization over, you know, at the big Mac,

43:34

Mac office in the sky that they they

43:36

probably kind of, you know, missed the boat when it comes

43:40

to video, and you will see what they do about that.

43:44

Nothing. They screwed over people so bad with

43:47

Final Cut. They screwed over the professional

43:50

and prosumer market with their USB shenanigans

43:55

years ago. I left I I wasn't an

43:57

Apple guy from the Apple 2.

43:59

I loved Macs. I love my Macs, and

44:02

they just I couldn't make it work anymore.

44:05

You know? And they had the FireWire and

44:07

all this nonsense. Well And it it but

44:10

the USB mess up they made about

44:13

Mhmm. I wanna say maybe 7, 8 years

44:16

ago, it made me go away, maybe go

44:18

to Windows. Now, of course, they're all in

44:20

cahoots with the device makers, so, you know,

44:23

no one makes drivers for Linux because, you know, once once you have that

44:27

on Linux, then there's no incentive to upgrade anymore. You

44:31

can't break it. You know, Apple is about

44:33

to break all of the older devices. Everyone's gonna have

44:36

to upgrade all their pro gear to whatever

44:39

new system they're coming up with, you know, just like they did by removing

44:43

the headphone jack. Well, that's how they that's

44:46

how they sell cool. That's how they sell more gear, but I'm kinda referencing, you know,

44:50

we'll see what Apple Podcasts does. And I know that there are lots of

44:54

Nothing. What do you mean? Well, give them 2 years. What

44:57

do you mean? What do you mean? What are they gonna do? Well, you know, I

45:00

I my hope is I'll just say my hope surface the video that's in their catalog.

45:05

Just say my hope is that they'll quit making video as second class citizen.

45:08

Well, I hope I hope they start focusing

45:11

on video all the time so that some of these new podcast apps can take away

45:15

their business because Yeah. People want look. NPR doesn't have

45:19

video of every single one of their shows.

45:22

They were. ABC doesn't have video of every

45:24

single one of their shows. Why? Because they're audio shows. Yeah. And and

45:28

they're good, and it's quality, and people like

45:30

it, and they listen to it. Doesn't have to be video. So if

45:34

Spotify is stealing It's stealing people's livelihood with

45:38

their whole video system, because once you upload

45:40

video, then your audio no longer counts. You

45:43

don't have the, you don't have the, the pass through of

45:46

the statistics. And I'm just presuming they can add in

45:50

ads or do whatever they want because you need to sign a contract to be on

45:53

their platform, which is why none of my

45:55

shows are there. I refuse. And you know

45:58

what? Hasn't hurt me. But don't, you know,

46:00

don't get me wrong. You know, obviously, right now at this very

46:04

second, there are a handful of new podcast apps at podcastapps.com

46:09

where you can watch, if you want to,

46:12

this show live on video in a podcast

46:14

app. So and maybe that's where we transition to the

46:18

podcasting 2 point o discussion. But I also have to recognize

46:22

and in my position as a hosting provider

46:24

that Apple still has 50% of the listening

46:27

audience. And I have to make sure that I'm

46:30

vocalizing to them where their issue is and I've done that

46:35

very distinctly and, you know, and having other discussions about

46:39

things that I think they should improve, specifically trying to adopt some of the stuff

46:44

that's in podcasting 2 point o. I'd love them to adopt everything. They never will. They're

46:48

too slow. Doesn't work that way over there.

46:50

He gets decision by committee. They're very secretive. You know, it's I call

46:54

it contractor speed. Oh, that's interesting. You know,

46:56

those types of discussion. Meanwhile, everyone else were

46:59

moving quickly and running with scissors

47:02

as as the term is in podcasting 2.9.

47:04

I love it. I think we've still have a long way

47:07

to go in educating podcasters on this value.

47:09

Because if we could get everyone on the same team

47:13

and tell our audiences, you know, there's this

47:15

new experience over here

47:18

that's not the same as it was before.

47:20

It's not just click play and put the phone in your First of all, these things

47:24

take time. It's true. I mean, the the main thing I'd like

47:27

to see now is I'd like to see podcast apps make use of the funding tag

47:31

Yeah. And display that more prominently

47:34

because, you know, just removing the steps of going

47:38

to a website or going to Patreon or

47:40

going to PayPal or whatever it is, just

47:43

having a click here to donate and, you

47:45

know, make it clear to donate to the

47:47

show maybe with words, instead of, you know, something that's buried deep.

47:52

I'm looking at you, podcast guru. That would help

47:57

the, the streaming

48:00

SATs and boosts and boostograms. We're now in the process of

48:05

about to Dave Jones and I have really been working

48:08

pretty hard on getting a couple companies to

48:11

make it very simple. And the main thing is for,

48:16

app developers. App developers, you know, they're trying

48:19

to make good apps And,

48:21

to implement all kinds of, you know, things,

48:25

with wallets is complicated. So we're looking at

48:28

something as simple as an OAuth connection

48:30

so you'd be able to connect, Zebedee. You'll be able to connect, Strike.

48:37

There is some pretty, decent information in the market that PayPal is

48:42

going to be enabling Bitcoin send and receive

48:45

straight from Fiat. So,

48:48

you know, there will always be an element

48:51

of, Bitcoin, like, we've gotta be in Sats. We've

48:55

gotta be, you know, we've gotta be,

48:57

whatever it is. But, ultimately, if you just say, you know, connect your

49:02

bank to this app like you do Venmo

49:05

or Cash App or whatever. Yep. And

49:08

then just send, you know, a dollar or

49:10

$10 or a $100. The fact that it runs through the Lightning

49:14

Network and can be divided into very small

49:16

payments, is just a benefit that no one really

49:20

has to know about. So, like like Bitcoin itself, this is very, very

49:25

early. It'll never work with Fiat. You know, you

49:28

just you can't do it with the fees and all these hassles.

49:32

But having podcast apps through

49:35

an intermediary functioning pretty much like Venmo, that's on the way.

49:39

Yeah. That's coming. And that you know, we'll see it we'll see the integration happening in

49:45

the next couple of weeks, and it'll really start to roll out broader,

49:49

as more people learn about it, and it becomes easier.

49:52

And, ultimately, it's the podcasters. The podcasters

49:56

have to tell their audiences what they want them to

49:59

do. It's that simple. Yeah. That's a good transition here, Adam, about,

50:04

you know, how to manage your community. Right?

50:07

And to foster these kind kind of things.

50:09

And then You gotta threaten them constantly. Right.

50:12

Right. And how to actually do that in

50:14

the context of what's happening. This is a

50:16

very evolving kind of methodology that you're talking

50:19

about, but it does dovetail to what you're talking about, about building these niche communities and

50:24

building support from

50:27

the the community and the individuals that are

50:29

in the community, and less less dependent on advertising. Right? I

50:35

I think, ultimately, that's kind of where where

50:37

the the trends are moving towards is I'm

50:39

not sure that advertising as we know it today is going to survive.

50:45

I think it will. I think some fundamental changes have to take

50:49

place. Okay. I see a future for brands to

50:53

create their own networks. Right. I'm kind of waiting for that to

50:57

happen where a dog dog food brand

51:01

has a network of dog podcasts.

51:04

And they work with them in close collaboration,

51:07

not just throwing host reads out there, but,

51:10

you know, there's a lot of things you can do from a brand perspective, and it'll

51:14

take some investment. But I think that's a a distinct possibility.

51:19

And we need to sadly, I think we

51:21

just need to remove advertising agencies. They're really the Oh, they're the bottleneck.

51:26

They're really a big bottleneck in this process.

51:28

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. And to some

51:30

degree, we've seen that, Adam, to a certain

51:33

degree too with the brands taking on creator

51:37

type of partnerships or But that's usually done through an agency. Right.

51:42

Well, I mean, like, my my contract that

51:45

I had with StreamYard is an example of that. I created a show on their channels

51:49

in support of them. But I think what you're talking about, Adam,

51:53

is maybe creating kind of a network of shows that isn't

51:57

necessarily tied specifically to them, but is more independent

52:02

but has an alliance with them somehow? Is

52:04

that what you're Yeah. Talking about? You know,

52:06

I I see it kind of like, almost like an MLM, but more like,

52:14

you know, Avon, you know, where

52:17

there there is an affiliation. I'm not sure exactly, but some, you know,

52:23

marketers are people who have product

52:26

know their audience. They know how to reach them, and they're smart.

52:30

I I'll never, underestimate

52:33

how smart marketing people are within brands,

52:36

because they really do know what works. Because they're always testing stuff. Right? Yeah. I

52:42

mean, that that's their job. You know? Usually,

52:45

they start pretty small and they know who buys their sneakers and they expand that.

52:50

And then, you know, in general, we're going

52:52

to see a disintermediation of middle management

52:56

in the world. It's time for that to

52:58

happen. We have middle mid level managers

53:01

creating memos with ChatGPT and mid level managers on the other end

53:06

taking that, putting it through ChatGPT to get the synopsis.

53:10

I mean, this this is the insanity that

53:12

we've gotten down to. Everything has to streamline.

53:15

So so to the advertising industry, I think it's it's time

53:20

for a rewrite of the rules, and and

53:22

that'll happen. But what's not gonna happen is podcasting is

53:26

not going to deliver any data to you,

53:29

of any value. It's just not. Can you can you,

53:34

create scenarios where people actually buy product? Yes. I

53:38

think you can. But that's gonna take a deeper integration with

53:42

the programs, and the people who create those those programs

53:46

beyond, you know, just here's my downloads or even

53:50

here's my code. It's gonna take a much deeper level of

53:54

integration, but I think it can work. But

53:56

it won't be as measurable as people like. We're still living in the

54:01

CPM world of television and, you know, and

54:04

the, and diaries for radio. I mean, it's it's

54:08

it's an old fashioned world and

54:10

someone will come up with it. It won't be me.

54:13

You know, the the whole model now, you know, if if

54:17

you think about what YouTube and Spotify have

54:19

done, it's really it's just a marketing ploy

54:21

because they they're taking all that content. They're not giving anything back. They're getting all

54:26

the analysis on those listeners. They're reselling to

54:29

them. They're selling that data downstream. This is and that's where the money's at.

54:33

It's in the is in the bodies and the information.

54:36

And while they'll always have that because they have the the app Scale. That tracks the

54:41

client, the login, and you've already greened the

54:43

terms of service. I think there's a an opportunity

54:46

and something I've been looking at and I really can't go into too much detail. I

54:50

hope, Adam, you may be getting briefed by the individual soon. I don't know if he's

54:53

reached out to you to give you a a a demo, but I think we can

54:57

take, take back the

55:02

the information. In other words,

55:05

those that you trust. What are you talking about? Well, I don't No one gives me

55:09

any secret demos. I mean,

55:11

you know NDA. Is there any no an

55:14

embargo. They know me. They're not gonna tell

55:16

me anything. They they will, and there's no

55:18

NDA on this. It's, What what what exactly

55:21

are you talking about? It's just basically we

55:25

you as you as a podcaster,

55:27

being you're a techie, you can have a opportunity to obscure the

55:32

IP data going downstream, from your content media and still

55:36

Yes. You own your IP is what you're talking about. Right.

55:39

Yeah. And and if and if you trust

55:41

your hosting provider to obscure that data and

55:45

not sell it, your your hosting provider might be able to

55:48

do that too. I don't quite understand. And

55:50

with IP, you mean intellectual property? No. I'm

55:53

talking about IPs. You know, 192 dot166.

55:56

Listeners. Yeah. The IP data of the listeners.

55:58

Or viewers. Yeah. Well, so what are you

56:01

saying? That that's gonna go away? Because if No. No. But if if you would have

56:05

the opportunity to if you wanted to

56:08

to take a piece of code and basically

56:10

put it in front of your data And basically,

56:14

the media gets served out, and it just

56:16

obscures all of your information about who that listener

56:19

actually is. And you can do that on

56:21

your own. Sounds like a big pain in the butt. Not big. About that about that.

56:25

I don't wanna I don't wanna do any of that. I'm a podcaster. I don't care.

56:29

I don't care. I think the main thing is is If people don't want my content,

56:33

don't support it. If you like it, support it. It's that simple. No. What we're talking

56:36

about is the people on the other end

56:39

taking that data and then remarketing to your listeners and Selling

56:44

Selling. The data about your audience. Now if

56:47

you are on an app that says, hey, we protect. We don't we don't resell.

56:51

None of that is needed. If if you if all the apps out there will say,

56:54

listen. We we don't resell to any we

56:56

don't take any of this data that we're collecting and use that to our monetary advantage

57:01

and and basically trust the privacy of the listener,

57:05

then this none of this is needed. But I hate to say it. I don't think

57:08

that's the case in a lot of instances. You know, there's no there's one reason

57:13

why Spotify bought Charbon pod sites.

57:16

One reason. And they bought them on the same day.

57:19

It's for all that data, all that listener

57:22

data. And, so it shows really what data do they

57:26

really have? What data do you really get?

57:30

A lot. And they use that they take that data, and they use another system

57:35

on top of it. And, you know, they

57:37

know who you are down down to down

57:39

to your address. Right. But but that you know, you can

57:43

use that data broker for that. I mean, all of that. All that's well known. Yeah.

57:47

But I don't think I don't think people think about it. But in the end,

57:50

there's maybe a way. That's just one little

57:53

piece of everything that's going on here. Some

57:55

people don't care, and that's fine if you don't like that. Gotta serve him a crappy

57:58

ad, I guess. Well, you gotta serve him still got You gotta serve him.

58:02

I'll give that person oh, it's Adam Curry.

58:04

He's listening. He's interested in airplanes. He can't

58:06

afford. I'm gonna give him an ad for an airplane he can't afford. Right at this

58:09

very moment, here it comes. Success.

58:12

Yeah. Yeah. Well and also they're capturing data

58:15

about shows too. Yeah. And so they can

58:17

actually actively recruit those shows to maybe join their

58:22

network. Yeah. So, again, that's a that's that's a business

58:26

plan and How about this? I got a show about dog food.

58:30

Okay. I'm a dog food company. Hey. You

58:32

probably have people that are interested in my product. Way to go. Connection made. That's right.

58:37

Right. Yeah. And You know, if you're just talking about

58:40

politics, you know, no. No one's gonna be interested because it's

58:45

too controversial. We don't wanna be a part

58:47

of that. We we want control. Marketers want control. No. They do. They want

58:51

control. Yeah. So And they want more and more

58:55

data, and it's ridiculous. I'm more I'm more interested in

58:59

I've been talking about this a lot. I would love to see some new podcast

59:04

apps that are opinionated, that are a platform A vertical. For

59:10

yeah. You could call it a vertical. I see it more as a I I use

59:12

the example of Rachel Maddow because she was

59:14

very clear about podcast apps in a recent,

59:18

it was Hollywood Reporter Yeah. I see. Interview. And she said, I

59:22

don't understand the apps. How come they're not recommending stuff and based on merit, etcetera? Now

59:27

she's not talking about, you know, recommending Tucker

59:30

Carlson to people who are watching her or

59:32

listening to her podcast. So what she wants is she wants Rachel's

59:36

war the world. Right. And I would like

59:38

to see apps that are opinionated, and promote you can still get whatever you

59:43

want on that app, but why not have

59:46

something where you open it up and delight them? Like, oh, I'm in the airplanes. You

59:49

know, this is my whole airplane

59:51

podcast that's recommending things. I might use multiple

59:55

apps in that why not? I use different apps for different things. Doesn't have to be

59:59

you know, we're still kind of stuck in this, I've gotta be the app for all

1:00:03

things. Well, you're just an inbox. You know?

1:00:05

You're not really impressive. It's just it's just

1:00:07

an inbox with some features that I may happen to

1:00:10

like. There's a there's a bottom line

1:00:13

level of features a podcast app has to

1:00:15

have, you know, things that Google still can't seem to figure

1:00:19

out with their Google Podcasts on YouTube.

1:00:21

There's some very basic things that it has

1:00:23

to have. Once you have that, now what are you doing? Well, how about I'm opinionated,

1:00:28

and I'm going to, going to create this world

1:00:32

and any podcast within this realm that I'm

1:00:35

interested in, be it a particular sport or

1:00:38

type of business, that I'm going to create a place where,

1:00:43

that's all promoted and the best stuff does

1:00:46

come to the top and give me some interactive features so I can talk to other

1:00:50

people who are interested in this particular topic.

1:00:52

That is the kind of thing I think we need, and, and no one has really

1:00:57

stepped up to the plate yet, but I'll keep hammering at it. You know, I'm not

1:00:59

an app developer at all. We don't we

1:01:01

haven't built an app. I don't want to. It's very expensive. Well, I have one app

1:01:05

we maintain and, you know, that's a bottom line every year.

1:01:10

But why not? We the current apps could

1:01:12

do this. They could say, what is your topic preference? And if it's sports, click sports.

1:01:17

And then What I'm saying is forget that. You know, that's

1:01:22

genres. Yeah. What do you know about? I'm an

1:01:25

app developer. I have I have some interest

1:01:27

in something. Yeah. Do that. Something you really know something

1:01:31

about. Maybe it's just about technology. Maybe it's

1:01:34

okay. Make it simple. Maybe it's about PHP

1:01:36

programming. Mhmm. Whatever it is, and curate that and

1:01:40

and and make it something that's delightful to

1:01:43

people. You know, you'll get more people who will

1:01:46

value your app and will, I believe, support

1:01:48

you monetarily to keep it up than just a plain

1:01:51

old inbox that, okay, I can so I

1:01:53

can sort it by genre. Here's another list.

1:01:56

Here's another list, and here's another list. You

1:01:58

know, people are so hung up on not using their users' data. Use your users' data

1:02:04

to give them more of what they want, but it really only works if you're doing

1:02:08

it in a specific area because it's just

1:02:10

you know, we can't all afford big servers

1:02:12

in the background running, analyzing every single user.

1:02:15

Go after one particular group. That's right there, Rachel Maddow is saying, I want

1:02:20

this. Give it to her. That was the goal of what we did

1:02:24

with my cast, but we'd made it so

1:02:26

that the individual could curate their list. It was no different than

1:02:30

just having a custom RSS feed. So nothing

1:02:32

fancy there. But it would be it would

1:02:35

be nice though to maybe

1:02:38

and of course, I don't know if you want to tie it back to RSS because

1:02:40

it's not a user experience. It would be great. But maybe have an app that would

1:02:45

morph that RSS feed could morph Well

1:02:48

on what was recommended. You know, there's 20

1:02:50

ways to spin this, but, Yeah. Because I don't think you wanna have

1:02:56

a an environment where you have to have,

1:02:58

you know, like, a 1000000 different apps Yeah.

1:03:01

Out there for every topic or Although, I

1:03:03

would love I would love it. I would love a check app. 100,000,000 apps. Why not?

1:03:08

Sure. That's true. It's kind of a bottleneck with these big,

1:03:12

tech companies, though, right now, right, of actually

1:03:14

getting published and getting them

1:03:17

approved. Then just do 1. Do 1.

1:03:20

Right. And then have, like Todd said, have

1:03:23

it morph into being that specialized app based on the user.

1:03:27

Right? No. I think that's too hard. Is that

1:03:29

what you're talking about? No. I think it's too hard

1:03:33

because you're not going to delight every do

1:03:35

something that you know about. Create an app that highlights things that you

1:03:39

you as a developer know about or whoever

1:03:42

you're working with. Do one thing and do it really well.

1:03:45

You know? Just one sport. Prick one sport.

1:03:48

We're good. It's not a single topic you can't think of that there aren't thousands of

1:03:52

people. Like, oh, this podcast app, this does

1:03:55

only political left leaning political content

1:03:59

like Rachel Maddow. In fact, we promote Rachel

1:04:01

Maddow every every single time. And on here's

1:04:03

all of our other NBC buddies. And here, you can get in here and talk about things, you know, and talk about your Rachel

1:04:06

Maddow world. That's what I'm talking about. And

1:04:09

maybe do it for show in that genre, give them an opportunity to have

1:04:17

a world, but give the podcasters

1:04:19

a reason to say use this app

1:04:22

instead of, I just like this app because

1:04:25

it does, you know, 1.5 speed nicely. Or it's Yeah. Or Todd can

1:04:29

say, hey. By the way, go use this app because it is full of shows that I love and and trust or whatever that word may be. You know? Especially

1:04:32

point of view. That's like Tom Webster.

1:04:36

So, Adam, talk about the whole trend that's going on

1:04:45

around content moderation, brand safety, and suitability platforms getting involved in

1:04:50

podcasting. Do you have the thoughts on it? Yeah.

1:04:55

It's death, so stay away from it. Use

1:04:57

modern podcast apps. Make sure your podcast is

1:05:00

on podcast index. We've never removed anything with any legal takedown.

1:05:05

I think we've had maybe one DMCA

1:05:09

request, one Mhmm. Which was a private feed, and we

1:05:13

try to keep them out anyway. That's it.

1:05:16

Put your put your feed in in a

1:05:18

place that is going to be safe

1:05:21

and will not be deleted, and tell your users to use a podcast

1:05:25

app that doesn't delete stuff. That's it. And everything else is just it's

1:05:30

all for money. It's all for monetization purposes.

1:05:33

That's what it's all about. And, of course, advertising is censorship. It always is. Whether you're

1:05:39

just self censoring to not talk about the other dog food, it's still censorship. Here here's

1:05:44

a here's a email It's not a trend that's been around forever. I mean, it's just

1:05:48

now it's just being a little more automated.

1:05:50

And and by the way, it happens everywhere.

1:05:52

It happens on on x, on the so

1:05:55

called free speech platform. It's not true. Here's

1:05:58

the This stuff gets deleted all the time. Here's the 4th email of the day that

1:06:01

I received. It says no reply. We've removed the following episode of your podcast

1:06:06

from beep because our

1:06:09

automatic review tools determine they appear to violate

1:06:12

beep's policy. Beep beep beep beep. And this turns out

1:06:16

to be a, a Christian show

1:06:20

and it probably had a some church music

1:06:22

in there. And so they removed the episode

1:06:25

for church music. So, you know, obviously, some some

1:06:29

platforms have a policy of no music in

1:06:31

podcast and this is just a regular thing that

1:06:35

happens. Now this week, it's music. Last week,

1:06:37

it was another topic. The week before, it was another topic.

1:06:41

But people just don't realize that, there are a lot of content being

1:06:47

taken down, at least on one specific platform.

1:06:52

Do you think it's coincidence that I rail

1:06:54

about x and all of a sudden your Starlink starts to stutter a little bit? This

1:06:58

is Well, start That's some serious AI going on

1:07:04

there. Knock on knock on wood here. We're still online, I think. I'm looking at it.

1:07:08

The stream is not buffering on, on the

1:07:10

receiver sites. We're still good, but Zoom definitely

1:07:13

was an issue. But, you know, I I I don't think

1:07:16

people realize how much censorship

1:07:19

or removal of content for terms of service,

1:07:23

which they're allowed to do because that's the terms of service said there will be no

1:07:26

music in your podcast. And you've chosen to put music in your

1:07:29

podcast and you didn't read the the 82 pages of terms of service anyway.

1:07:33

This is where we go back to what you're referring to, Adam, is until you get

1:07:37

a DMCA takedown, you're you're good to go. You your content,

1:07:43

on Podcast Index and in the,

1:07:46

you know, there's there's none of this happening.

1:07:50

You know, I can count on 2 hands probably the number of DMC takedowns we've received

1:07:55

internally in probably the past 10 years.

1:07:58

And it's usually for something very, very valid.

1:08:01

You know, paint playing Taylor Swift or something

1:08:04

like that in your show is probably not advisable.

1:08:07

She has very aggressive lawyers. The but again, when it comes to non

1:08:14

copyright stuff, there's still stuff being removed on these platforms

1:08:18

on a on a weekly basis that

1:08:21

is either too far right or too far

1:08:23

left. Everything in the middle is okay, but if

1:08:26

you're too far right or too far left, you know, and don't mention certain words because you're automatically

1:08:31

bounced. Yeah. Like assassination,

1:08:34

pedophile, all this stuff. Right. Yeah. Sorry. You just

1:08:37

got thrown off of YouTube. Sorry.

1:08:41

So and it could happen. They could cut the stream. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because they have,

1:08:46

algorithms that are running against this or AI

1:08:48

that's picking up keywords and and filtering it

1:08:51

automated wise. So it can be almost real time Yeah. When they do this. Right? Facebook

1:08:56

has done me a few times. I've said something and then popped out.

1:08:59

So it's, you know, it's it's it just goes with the territory. No. The yeah. I

1:09:03

here's all these platforms, particularly the social networks. Here's

1:09:07

my dream, and I I'm changing my stance

1:09:09

on AI, which I think is a is a total

1:09:13

penard. And, you know, we're going to go

1:09:15

into a a huge a huge blow up of this nonsense

1:09:20

because, you know, I'm hearing I'm hearing numbers being thrown out there like

1:09:26

Anthropic's API costs 36¢

1:09:29

per API call. Right. You know, it's like,

1:09:31

there is no way you can make this money back.

1:09:35

And it's also just not that good.

1:09:38

I I really would like as much,

1:09:43

AI generated content, which is really CGI, computer

1:09:46

generated imagery, computer generated,

1:09:50

video and audio. I really want as much

1:09:54

of it as possible to flood as many social networks as possible.

1:09:59

I want it on Reddit. I want it on x. I want it on YouTube. I

1:10:02

want it on Instagram. I want it on TikTok.

1:10:05

So these these AI models start to ingest

1:10:08

that, and then they just go haywire.

1:10:10

And the only way for these companies to

1:10:13

keep up is by going broke, by getting

1:10:15

more humans to input human content.

1:10:18

I want them all to go out of business and broke. They are all the devil's

1:10:22

playground. They are not healthy. They are not

1:10:24

good. They are not useful. They are lame.

1:10:28

And I just like to go back to,

1:10:30

you know, just an Internet where we can

1:10:32

connect with each other, some simple way to

1:10:35

subscribe. Blogs will be fine.

1:10:39

Microblogging will be fine. These platforms

1:10:43

have no future, particularly with the amount of,

1:10:47

of, algorithm generated content

1:10:51

that is being made. It's going to devolve

1:10:53

into complete well, let's talk about the dead Internet. We're

1:10:56

already there. We're we're already interacting with things that are completely generated that

1:11:01

aren't real, accounts that aren't real.

1:11:04

And all I can see from

1:11:06

you know, I have a 34 year old, a 29 year old, and a 27 year

1:11:10

old. They will may they keep they keep uninstalling

1:11:15

TikTok. They'll install it. They'll go down the hole.

1:11:18

They wake up at 4 in the morning, uninstall it like this thing is bad for

1:11:21

me. Text groups is what they use. That's

1:11:24

how they communicate. They have one private, maybe a private Instagram

1:11:28

or private Twitter account to talk to each

1:11:30

other. They're withdrawing from the process. It's only

1:11:33

middle aged people who are still on these

1:11:35

systems feeding it and find it important. And

1:11:38

once that goes, then all the cable news they'll have no

1:11:42

outlet. No one's watching them. Just the clips

1:11:45

are showing up on social media. So Right.

1:11:47

It'll take 10 years maybe, but I can't wait for just all to go to crap,

1:11:51

and then Wall Street will come up with, you know, a new you know, be it'll

1:11:54

be quantum computing. Oh, yes. We have to invest in quantum computing. That's gonna be the

1:11:58

new thing. Because this is it's real and

1:12:01

and and I will say, props to Zuckerberg.

1:12:05

I love that he has just taken a

1:12:07

whole different, approach and said, no. We're creating the llama

1:12:12

models. We're putting them out open source. Do

1:12:14

with it what you will. And I use the llama model on my start 9. There's

1:12:18

something like, build me a web page and

1:12:20

embed this code. It does that pretty well.

1:12:23

I mean, stuff like that. Find me scripture,

1:12:26

from the New Testament that has this topic.

1:12:29

It does that pretty well. Not much else.

1:12:32

Everything else is kind of disappointing or

1:12:35

no. It's disappointing. I I think what's really

1:12:38

gonna ultimately happen we can we can debate what's

1:12:42

gonna happen in the next couple of years, but what's really gonna happen, what's already happening

1:12:47

is that, Google can't

1:12:51

afford to allow

1:12:55

LOM's AGI or whatever to exist

1:12:59

in the state on google.com because all of a sudden,

1:13:05

the only way you get found

1:13:08

well, the only way Blueberry gets found is I either have to write a check on

1:13:11

SEM, which maybe that's what they're hoping for,

1:13:14

or the language model you got lucky enough

1:13:17

for them to recommend you, because no longer will you be found in

1:13:21

search. Search is ultimately gonna change, and that is going to

1:13:25

destroy what what little what little can still be

1:13:29

found today when you're trying to find a local

1:13:33

business. You know, and if Facebook makes a logarithm change, that'll be gone.

1:13:38

So businesses are the ones that are in

1:13:40

deep, deep, deep trouble. Your creators are too.

1:13:42

They'll all be advertising on the local podcast

1:13:45

that I'm saying. Well, then the that might

1:13:47

be the model because it I I go

1:13:49

back to what I've said on this show before. Say what you a about YouTube and say

1:13:53

what you will about TikTok, but at least

1:13:56

you know when you're watching at least till

1:13:58

today, you when you watch something on YouTube,

1:14:00

but don't don't get on one of those, you know, voice generated ones that are crap.

1:14:04

But what you listen to on a podcast

1:14:06

and what you watch on YouTube, if you know that it's not AI generated,

1:14:11

can be trusted. Now the question is when does that line

1:14:14

match up? I don't know. But,

1:14:17

you know, I think that at some point, we need a flag.

1:14:21

Of course, you know, who who's gonna honor

1:14:23

the flag that says, hey. This was this

1:14:25

was created by real people, you know, you know,

1:14:28

with with, organ matter between their ears,

1:14:31

versus, a CHAD GPT script.

1:14:35

They're already putting, links into

1:14:39

output now. So Of course. I don't think

1:14:41

it's out of the range of possibility that

1:14:44

sponsored links will continue. It's just they haven't

1:14:46

migrated into AI yet because they don't wanna

1:14:49

ruin it, too soon. Right? It's going to

1:14:51

get ruined. Yeah. It will. It is inevitable.

1:14:54

It is inevitable. I mean, people are posting

1:14:56

the output of chat chat gpt into Twitter

1:14:59

or x and onto Reddit. That's getting sucked

1:15:02

up again. And and we I just feedback loop is

1:15:05

what it's gonna turn out to be. Right? Well, it's like making a copy of a

1:15:08

copy. Yeah. That's true. I I did an experiment

1:15:11

on, the no agenda show where, comic strip blogger took our episode

1:15:17

1690 6, and he ran it through notebook lm

1:15:21

and came up with the deep dive podcast of these 2

1:15:25

AI voices. They do then an 8 minute summary of

1:15:29

what the show was about. And I then took

1:15:32

the transcript of that and put it back

1:15:35

into note lm, and it started coming at

1:15:37

you know, because the topic was about the exploding pages in Lebanon. And the second iteration,

1:15:43

the second copy, basically, they're already talking about

1:15:45

exploding Walkmans. So so,

1:15:48

you know, what will the 3rd generation do?

1:15:50

I don't know. Your shoes gonna explode. It

1:15:53

lost all context almost immediately. So it was

1:15:57

like it's like, no. No. No. This is

1:15:59

this is completely Yeah.

1:16:02

It's it can't they cannot filter it out.

1:16:04

They can't do it. So I want to stop the engine from what's the what's the

1:16:09

stop the engine from going to that audio

1:16:11

clip and then ingesting that back? And you

1:16:14

you're right. It will. It will. And and

1:16:17

and that's what happens. That's just how systems

1:16:20

work. You know, it's just going to ingest itself. And, you know, there's already $1,000,000,000

1:16:25

companies of humans making content,

1:16:29

for the AI models and tagging it, etcetera.

1:16:32

And so, you know, if you look at, Apple Intelligence and you look at the prompts

1:16:37

that they're using to go into the, you

1:16:39

know, the the model, you know, just to

1:16:42

create some video of your photos,

1:16:47

it already has in there, do not make

1:16:49

it political, racial, you know, sexist, etcetera, etcetera,

1:16:53

etcetera. So it's all gonna be bland. It's all gonna be Yeah. Real. Nonsense. Real arts.

1:16:57

If they don't, then the thing just that's what happened with Tay. Remember that bot that

1:17:00

they had? I think it was Google had Tay, and

1:17:04

it was taking input from the the Internet.

1:17:06

And then Oh, I think it was Microsoft, actually. Within 24 hours, it was a horrible

1:17:11

racist, you know, misogynistic Nazi bot. And, you know, because it was

1:17:16

it was it was just being fed, and it was

1:17:18

feeding upon itself. It it it doesn't work.

1:17:21

It doesn't work. So it's you know, Wall Street needed something

1:17:26

after we had machine learning, blockchain,

1:17:31

artificial intelligence. Wall Street needs a story. They need a

1:17:35

story. And, you know, it's no wonder that

1:17:37

we're getting interesting graphics and videos because they're

1:17:41

being built on chips from NVIDIA who are

1:17:44

a graphics company. So, yeah, it can do that. That's what

1:17:47

it was always doing, but we'll see how close it gets to anything really useful.

1:17:53

Yeah. And again go ahead, Rob.

1:17:56

Oh, and, you know, this is really a

1:17:58

conversation about training data. Where does it get

1:18:00

the training data? And I guess that's also

1:18:03

They're buying it. They're buying it from Reddit.

1:18:05

They're buying it from x. They're buying it

1:18:07

from the New York Times. Or from they're

1:18:09

they're scrape they're scraping Geek News Central new

1:18:12

media show, blueberry.com. That's kinda scary.

1:18:17

They're grabbing it from everywhere, but there there

1:18:19

there's also pathways for them to feed it

1:18:22

misinformation too and lies and deception too. You

1:18:26

know? No agenda show. Oh, is that what it is? Okay.

1:18:30

You know, and that's one thing I've told my team is it's real easy to go

1:18:34

down this rabbit hole. You get a press release.

1:18:36

Put it in chat g b team. You got yourself a new article. I told the

1:18:39

team, no. No. No. No. We're not gonna do that. We're gonna stay original. We're gonna

1:18:42

write original content. We're gonna try to ride that train as

1:18:45

long as we can. I tell you, it's

1:18:47

real tempting to be able to go from

1:18:49

15 articles or 20 articles a month to

1:18:52

15 a week. We could easily do that.

1:18:54

But like Adam said, gotta be you know,

1:18:57

if you're just taking that and write a summary, are you really giving anything of value

1:19:02

to, to a reader? No. You're just feeding

1:19:04

Google and then ultimately, you're feeding the machine

1:19:06

again. So we're gonna continue to do original content. Sure. I get create summaries from

1:19:11

this show, from the transcript. That works real

1:19:13

well. Sometimes, I'll say about Yeah. But they're gonna keep

1:19:18

keep scooping all that information Of course. Make

1:19:21

Yeah. Make the AI models, even even better. Well, depends. If it's if

1:19:26

it's AI generated content like Adam says,

1:19:29

then, you know, how do they how do they

1:19:32

prevent it from ingesting that's not original? I don't know if they

1:19:36

can. Yeah. That's that's bigger brains than that working on it. So

1:19:40

but I I I think there's a 5050 chance it just goes sideways and plats on

1:19:44

itself. They're gonna go broke trying to make

1:19:47

this work. It's just it I don't see

1:19:49

any possibility in One laws of thermodynamics

1:19:54

I was even to to work. I was at a AI conference, and I was told

1:19:57

that every chat and gbt request takes one

1:20:00

bottle of water to cool the chip

1:20:02

or chips that were used to get that

1:20:04

query. So Yeah. We don't hear about that

1:20:07

anymore in the, in the climate change conversation.

1:20:10

No. Not at all. No. No. We don't hear about that. I wonder why. Because it's

1:20:14

money, man. It's money. It's 100 of 1,000,000,000

1:20:16

of dollars and a a nickels coming out the other end. Emily says can't tell us

1:20:19

how they scrape our data. Well, it's very simple. They they hide their user agent.

1:20:24

They download your they write they read your web page. They

1:20:29

probably download your audio, make a transcript if

1:20:31

you don't have one already. And they they enhance they gulp it in

1:20:35

and do whatever they do with it. So Well, I'm sure that all this big social

1:20:40

platforms are are selling that data to other

1:20:43

platforms. Well, you hear about these deals all

1:20:45

the time. New York Times made a deal, you know, because they had lawyers enough to

1:20:49

sue them to say you're gonna, you know, you're gonna I think they still have a

1:20:52

lawsuit. But yeah. I don't know. We'll see where it

1:20:55

goes. But I think real voices with real

1:20:57

intention, with real stories, with,

1:21:00

you know, common sense stuff. But, you know, here's the problem you're gonna run into, Adam.

1:21:04

All of a sudden, all your sources that you get for all your producers out there,

1:21:09

all of a sudden, they're gonna start running into this crap and they're gonna be saying,

1:21:12

hey, Adam. I saw this article and it what if it was AI generated?

1:21:16

Then you gotta discern. You have to make the decision. Is this junk or is this

1:21:20

real? And, you know, you're gonna have a harder

1:21:24

time building your agenda for the show

1:21:27

based making sure that you're not being fed

1:21:31

bullshit. Oh, we get fed bullcrap all the time

1:21:34

and and, you know, the we've always received

1:21:37

videos where it's just cut a little bit

1:21:40

tight and like, oh, that's interesting. I wonder what the full context is. But the the

1:21:44

the producers we have, they're sending firsthand,

1:21:47

experience and experiential knowledge that's different than a

1:21:51

news story. That's true. I mean, I don't

1:21:53

need to spend but, you know, 10 minutes

1:21:55

online to get the the stories of the

1:21:57

day or whatever Right. People think is interesting.

1:22:01

Now what we do is we

1:22:05

dissect and we deconstruct media, which is

1:22:08

more fun because, you know, it's just easy

1:22:11

to it's just more fun because you make fun

1:22:14

of people. Yeah. Yeah. You make fun of

1:22:16

idiots. So that's really what we do. We're not

1:22:20

a news show. We don't try to be a news show, but we do and,

1:22:24

specifically, we're probably more important now than ever

1:22:27

to spin people down from you know, just

1:22:30

like I've seen the story, and it's been repeated many times about Soros is buying the

1:22:35

radio station. Well, you just have to even

1:22:37

read the articles to understand what is going on there. And,

1:22:42

you know, that combined with some radio professionals

1:22:44

who reached out to me and, you know, I can I can create a a pretty

1:22:46

decent story of, you know, or analysis of what's really going on here? But just put

1:22:50

Soros and you've got half of the country, you know,

1:22:54

freaking out even though the guy's a zombie by now.

1:23:01

You know? It's like, it's not even George Soros anymore. Stop.

1:23:05

Right. Before we run out of time, Adam,

1:23:07

where you think podcasting is going? Also,

1:23:11

we've got a lot stuff. We've done, what, 30 some new features, and I'm calling them

1:23:14

features. We don't wanna get too technical and tell people tags because their eyes are gonna

1:23:18

glaze over. We've got 30 some new features

1:23:20

in RSS now. What excites you most about the stuff you

1:23:24

and Dave have been talking about on

1:23:26

what's coming next? What can we look forward

1:23:29

to? Well, as we discussed, I think specialized podcast

1:23:33

players, local content, the combination of those 2, I'm

1:23:38

pretty excited about it. If I can ever get Dvorak to complete

1:23:43

his mission, you know, the by the way,

1:23:45

this is, this is a the Curry 1 beta 3

1:23:48

dot 1. Oh, nice. I'm on the I'm

1:23:51

on the list for the, gold copy. You get the gold version. Yeah. Absolutely. Gold version.

1:23:55

Get rid of this thing here. Very very

1:23:57

competitively priced. I wanna get a I wanna get

1:24:01

gear into people's hands at a very low

1:24:03

cost. I love Audio Sigma. Thank you for introducing

1:24:06

me to Fernando. Oh, he's a guy. It's just it's amazing. I I love what he's

1:24:10

making. Me too. Hands down, it has better,

1:24:14

sound and processing, easier to manage than the

1:24:17

road. I mean, it's really, really outstanding. Doesn't

1:24:19

have everything that I like because I've you

1:24:22

know, we have a kind of complicated setup.

1:24:25

But even with that, I could probably do the no agenda show. It it's really you

1:24:29

know? And the the price points are are

1:24:32

coming down to where, you know, you can really,

1:24:35

get things into people's hands. I just want

1:24:37

more. You know, I'd like to get people doing

1:24:40

more flip a switch, go live. I think that has a big future

1:24:44

in, in podcasting. That's pretty much also what,

1:24:47

what the Roadcaster video is saying. It's saying,

1:24:50

you know, stop with all these ISOs and

1:24:52

creating timeline with, you know, 10 different sources

1:24:56

and switching, and, you know, let's stop with

1:24:58

the editing out the uhs and the umms.

1:25:00

Please stop using AI to do all that.

1:25:03

Just be authentic voices. People people will,

1:25:07

will migrate towards authenticity. I see your little

1:25:10

fancy switcher. People will migrate towards authenticity

1:25:14

every single time. And for content they really want, they will

1:25:18

beg, steal, borrow, do whatever they have to

1:25:21

do to get it, including listening to crap

1:25:24

audio, on a web page if that's all they

1:25:26

can do. So we can make things easier.

1:25:29

We have all the technology. I believe that RSS will be with us

1:25:34

until we're no longer here. It's a great

1:25:36

distribution mechanism. Not great for the advertising

1:25:40

industry as, as it envisions itself now, and

1:25:44

I'm not trying to I've given up on

1:25:46

trying to shoehorn that into anything.

1:25:49

You know, it's fantastic. I hope that,

1:25:53

our hosting companies stay in business for a

1:25:56

long, long time. By the way, thank you,

1:25:58

both of you, and Blueberry and the boys

1:26:00

and girls there and all the other hosting

1:26:02

companies. I could mention them all, but they've

1:26:05

all contributed. They have really kept the podcast

1:26:07

index project running, with some runway should everything keel over. So

1:26:12

we're very, very happy about that. And it's an architecture that that should,

1:26:19

be with us for a long, long time, and it will it just routes around all

1:26:23

the noise and all the nonsense. That's what's beautiful about it.

1:26:27

So educate your listeners. Educate them on,

1:26:31

podcast apps they should be using and why.

1:26:35

And I would say what I always say on the No Agenda Show is use a

1:26:38

modern podcast app. You get alerted within 90

1:26:41

seconds of publishing. You get an alert that it's up there.

1:26:45

You don't have to wait several hours because,

1:26:48

most of the the good hosts are using

1:26:50

Podping. You have a multitude of exciting features like chapters.

1:26:55

Transcripts, of course, is something that our group

1:26:57

pioneered. Apple, adopted that, which is fantastic.

1:27:03

But I think the cloud chapters, which can

1:27:05

be crowdsourced, is very exciting.

1:27:08

There's many other pieces of data that we're

1:27:11

now creating. I think the location tag will

1:27:13

be important moving forward. There's a lot of

1:27:16

things. We we're still kind of stuck in a

1:27:20

in a inbox mentality of what a podcast app should be.

1:27:25

We'll get out of that. Some some creative

1:27:27

people will come in and just do something completely off the wall. There's frameworks you can

1:27:31

grab right now that are open source that gives you the the basics.

1:27:36

It's kind of interesting. I was invited into a WhatsApp group. I

1:27:40

know, Rob, you're in there. Todd, you're probably

1:27:42

in there as well. And, and I'm very

1:27:45

silent. I'm just lurking. I'm like, this is

1:27:47

this is the same thing that happens over and over and over again. There's nothing new.

1:27:51

Yep. It's the same conversations. I don't you

1:27:53

know, I'll stay in it because it's interesting just to

1:27:57

see it happen, but, you know, what's really

1:27:59

gonna come out of it? Well, you know, I don't know. Nothing really. I

1:28:03

mean, we need to run with scissors. We

1:28:05

need to be creative. We need to be nuts. Yeah. We need to come up with

1:28:09

nut so ideas and throw stuff against the

1:28:11

wall, and all the elements are there. All

1:28:14

the pieces are there. The only thing that's

1:28:16

holding us back is ourselves. You know, and and activity. Right? And and

1:28:20

I'll and I'll just take a second here for all the podcasters

1:28:23

that are listening to this today or watching

1:28:25

whenever however you've tuned in. If you care

1:28:30

about this thing we call Open RSS and podcasting,

1:28:35

if you care about that and if you care about your livelihood

1:28:40

to continue for the next 20 years and for not these

1:28:44

monopolies and these gatekeepers taking over and you wanna

1:28:47

have a little control and have a say, that's the most important

1:28:51

part, have a say. The first thing you should do is go

1:28:55

over to podcast index.org and, get your checkbook out. At the very

1:29:00

bottom here on the web page, there is

1:29:02

a place where there is a PayPal donation.

1:29:04

It's in check. Oops. So you you go

1:29:07

and you hit that and, and send, some value back to Adam

1:29:12

and Dave so that we consist because all

1:29:14

the cash goes in a in a kitty

1:29:16

to keep this running in case Adam gets

1:29:18

hit by a bus or Dave or whatever. You know, we wanna make sure this thing

1:29:21

continues. At the same time So make make copies

1:29:25

of of the of the index. Make make

1:29:27

another system that runs it. Make a backup. You

1:29:30

know? It's all there. All the data's there.

1:29:32

All it's all open. Anybody can do whatever

1:29:35

they want. Just keep it going. Keep it

1:29:37

alive. We were beholden to Apple. They were the

1:29:40

the default on ramp to podcasting 4 years

1:29:43

ago. They're no longer that. They just aren't.

1:29:46

And, you know, I'm delighted to see that

1:29:48

Overcast is is waking up. And, you know,

1:29:53

it's hard maintaining a big app. You know?

1:29:55

So it takes time. Now they're gonna be stuck in their inbox model forever.

1:30:00

Someone new coming into the space, oh, I

1:30:02

said said space. They can, they can literally come up with

1:30:07

something that is very specialized for a target

1:30:09

audience, and you will succeed. You will succeed

1:30:13

if you do that. I guarantee it. The

1:30:16

top program makers are asking for it. They're asking for this

1:30:20

type of stuff. And for those of you, making a reference

1:30:24

to my checkbook, come on. You know what analogy is? Then get your PayPal account out.

1:30:29

Hey. I still use checks. I love checks.

1:30:32

Yeah. I I love checks. Yeah. I I write one one

1:30:35

one a month. 40% of No Agenda's income is from people

1:30:39

who send checks? That's beautiful. Mhmm. Wow. Yeah. Because some people don't have

1:30:45

accounts. They might be that It's no,

1:30:49

no processing costs. Yeah.

1:30:52

Very little, like couple pennies. People send cash. People send gold,

1:30:57

and soon we'll be taking Bitcoin finally. And

1:31:00

and if you and if you look at the app section of the website, you can

1:31:03

see who's participating. It's not Blueberry. You've got

1:31:06

a whole bunch of podcast host in there, rss.com,

1:31:08

buzz sprout. You you it it shows everyone that's involved

1:31:13

in this in this ecosystem. And there's a

1:31:15

there's a massive list of stuff that you're probably not even aware of

1:31:20

of companies that are trying to help you as a podcaster make

1:31:25

this industry go our own way. And we have to

1:31:30

remember in 2,004 when when Adam and Dave

1:31:32

came up with well, when Adam came up with this idea and then Dave

1:31:36

dropped it into, what the hell was his his,

1:31:41

bug Actually Use radio user land. Yeah. Yeah. I pitched

1:31:45

him on the idea in 2000. Wow. And I flew to New York, and

1:31:49

I said, here's what we need. And he told me to buzz off, and I came

1:31:52

back the next day. I I said, no. No. Let's do this. And

1:31:55

he put the enclosure into RSS. We were

1:31:57

using it, sending QuickTime videos back and forth for 3 years,

1:32:02

longer than 3 years. Had 911 in between.

1:32:05

And it was till I saw the iPad that I made the connection.

1:32:08

Right. So it it really has been 24 years

1:32:12

since the enclosure element came into RSS.

1:32:15

It just it didn't click until I saw the iPad and went,

1:32:18

that's a radio. I was like, I get

1:32:21

it. That's a radio. And and I'm not gonna get here to do

1:32:24

re rehash history. But in 2,005, we

1:32:27

we gave up. The podcasting space gave up.

1:32:30

What did we give up? Innovation. We let

1:32:32

Apple take over in July of 2,005. The

1:32:35

innovation stopped for how long? Until what year, Adam? Did

1:32:39

you guys come back in and kick Podcast Index off?

1:32:42

And and I'll take some of the blame for that because I didn't really realize,

1:32:47

because I remember the first disappointment when

1:32:51

so so it was really it was very Steve Jobs flattered me, man. He invited me

1:32:55

to a personal chat and everything, and then he introduced

1:32:58

the integration of podcasting into iTunes

1:33:01

and, you know, played the daily source code

1:33:03

was fantastic. But if you looked at it, even

1:33:07

from day 1, all the content on their home page was

1:33:11

NPR, BBC, PBS. I was like,

1:33:15

so and they were the directory. And, really, the

1:33:19

reason why is because they had the one click subscription. We were

1:33:24

still telling people to find the RSS feed,

1:33:27

right click, copy, go to your podcast application

1:33:30

because we didn't have apps, paste in go to your subscribe, paste in

1:33:34

the feed, and hit okay. Whereas today, another podcasting 2 point o group

1:33:40

invention, episodes dot f m, which Nathan Gartright

1:33:43

put together. I mean, when I send out

1:33:45

a link to my podcast, I send an episodes dot .fm link now. And if you

1:33:49

go to podcast index.org, you find a show there. You'll see a

1:33:53

little green icon. You click on that, and

1:33:55

it opens up this entire list of everything

1:33:58

you can play it in, and you select

1:34:00

it. If you want, it will always select

1:34:02

that one for you. And we solved a

1:34:05

huge problem, something that we should have solved in 2005

1:34:09

or 2006. Instead, we found you know, we were arguing

1:34:14

about Atom versus RSS and all kinds of other

1:34:19

nonsense. And it's it's it's just like when

1:34:21

we introduce subscribe on android.com to make it

1:34:24

easy to subscribe on an Android app, no

1:34:26

one adopted it. You know why? It because Blue Berry did it. Can't do

1:34:30

we can't let Blueberry have any credit for this. So, you know,

1:34:33

we turned agree with that. You know, and

1:34:35

that's fine. But, you know, we turned over

1:34:38

what we could to this, to Podcast Index, and a few of our

1:34:42

things got adopted. But it's And that's why

1:34:45

it's important that

1:34:48

Podcast Index is what it is. Dave and

1:34:50

I have been offered stock and and board

1:34:54

positions and all kinds of stuff with everybody

1:34:56

and everything. We we continue. We say no.

1:34:59

We are just the guys who are independent.

1:35:02

I was very touched. I was, asked to be part of the,

1:35:07

hall of fame commission, and I said, no.

1:35:10

Thank you very much. This is actually how this this show came

1:35:14

about. Rob said, well, you don't wanna do that. Will you come on the new media

1:35:17

show? Okay. And and it's truly because we can't be

1:35:21

seen as anything but completely independent of everything and everybody. We're there

1:35:26

for RSS. We're there for podcasting.

1:35:29

We're there for innovation. We're there for picking

1:35:31

people up. When they fall down, the scissor

1:35:33

puts an eye out. That's what we're there

1:35:35

for. So before we get out of here, 16,000

1:35:38

stats came in from Darren. Oh, he says no check checkbook here, but I have lightning.

1:35:42

Thanks for the show. That's how instant feedback

1:35:44

works. 1701 stats from Mike Dell. YouTube died right when

1:35:48

we were talking about some censorship stuff. 1700

1:35:52

and sats from Mike Dell. Hi, Adam. Go

1:35:54

podcasting. So we wanna thank for you that provided some value back via sats today and

1:35:58

those who streamed sats too. Adam, we could go for 3 more hours

1:36:02

here, dude. I know you So I wanted yeah. I wanted to throw one thing out

1:36:05

before we go, Todd, is is as we've

1:36:08

seen over the last probably the last 6

1:36:10

months to a year is kind of a stagnation in new content

1:36:14

creators coming into the podcasting medium as we've

1:36:17

seen the the show's publishing active episodes,

1:36:22

kind of trail off a little bit, maybe stabilize a

1:36:25

little bit that that we've seen here more more recently. But is there anything that you're

1:36:30

seeing or that you think could be done in the industry right now

1:36:35

to reinvigorate, you know, reinvigorate

1:36:37

the interest in creating a new podcast,

1:36:40

Adam? Local.

1:36:42

That's all I got. That's it. A broken

1:36:44

record. Do something about your school. Do something

1:36:47

about your community. Do something about your church.

1:36:50

Do something about your boy scout group, your

1:36:52

girl scout group. Same thing these days.

1:36:55

You know, do do something for local geography,

1:36:59

for your local community. It's a wide open space. It is completely

1:37:04

wide open. I think there's money in it,

1:37:08

for from community support or from local advertising.

1:37:12

I truly believe that. That's where I advise

1:37:15

everybody to focus right now. And as, I know Adam won't promote it,

1:37:21

but if you're not listening to the podcasting 2 point o show, you need to get

1:37:25

subscribed to it. That's the board room where we talk about

1:37:28

in or that's where Adam and Dave talk

1:37:30

about all the in-depth, stuff that's going on podcasting 2.0. Then they

1:37:35

have guests on in the space talking about the cool stuff that they're doing. So,

1:37:39

you know, it's my first listen every Friday.

1:37:41

If I don't catch it live, you would definitely wanna listen. That's that's mandatory

1:37:46

if you're a podcaster and care. If you

1:37:48

care, if you don't care, then, you know, let someone else own this space.

1:37:53

But if you care, listen to that show. Yeah. And if you want to hear Adam

1:37:58

and John Dvorak's, No Agenda Show, Adam,

1:38:04

where should a listener go check it out? Noagendashow.netoranypodcastappexceptforspotify.

1:38:13

Just look for no agenda.

1:38:19

Adam, do you wanna give out any other

1:38:21

contact information beyond that? Or I have only

1:38:23

one thing to say. Go. Yes.

1:38:27

Oh, god. Do it one more time. It got muffled a little bit.

1:38:30

Go. Get the same. I don't know what

1:38:33

the hell. Zoom cut it or something. You can't hear it? Yeah. It uh-uh.

1:38:37

Is this too loud? I don't know what

1:38:39

happened. You don't hear Go Podcast? We hear it.

1:38:43

We hear it. We hear it. Podcasting.

1:38:48

It's Something's getting shot. Some reason it's not

1:38:50

coming through. Right? Yeah. Well, screw that noise. Yeah. There goes my

1:38:55

bit at the end. The hell the hell is Zoom. Man. Okay. Yeah.

1:39:01

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for having me on. It's always a pleasure. Thank you

1:39:04

for doing the show. I do listen to it pretty much every single week.

1:39:08

Listen to it, because it's just I have other things in

1:39:11

my life to do, and I love doing it at the same time. That's right.

1:39:15

But I appreciate it because, you know, I love hearing about the things you can't talk

1:39:18

about. It always gets me very excited. Yes.

1:39:22

I had one of those meetings this week. So I I'm sure you did. Yeah. And

1:39:25

it and it again, it was with people that were important, and I kind of, how

1:39:29

should we say, I lectured for 30 minutes.

1:39:33

Alright. Thanks, Adam. Appreciate you coming on and Take

1:39:36

care, guys. Alright. Thank you. Thank you, chat room. Bye bye. Thanks. Thanks, everybody.

1:39:40

So, Rob, wow. You went really wide screen. Yeah. Now

1:39:44

I did. Yeah. So Super wide. No. Probably

1:39:47

no way for me to fix that. I don't think

1:39:52

anyway, well, like I said, we we could

1:39:54

have talked to Adam for another hour or 2.

1:39:58

Oh, of course. Yeah. There's a million things

1:40:00

that we could talk about. That's for sure. So yeah.

1:40:04

Yeah. Let's say the rest of you.

1:40:07

Who should we have on next? Who should we have on next? Did did

1:40:10

you get the did you get the opinion Adam does not like AI?

1:40:15

Yeah. I think My opinion a lot of ways he's he's

1:40:19

actually, it's it's true what he was saying about

1:40:23

AI and the and the dangers of it.

1:40:25

And where it may be leading us is

1:40:28

into just not clarity, which is what I was hoping

1:40:32

that AI was going to bring to our

1:40:34

world and to podcasting was, you know, number 1, the truth. And number

1:40:40

2, more clarity that all of us have towards

1:40:43

what's happening in the world. But I'm not sure that's going to be the outcome here.

1:40:46

I think it's just going to be more of the same,

1:40:49

more kind of confusion and,

1:40:54

incorrect information because there's people putting thumbs on the scale

1:40:58

and trying to control all the information that

1:41:00

comes out of this stuff. I think the way we looked at it, and I wrote

1:41:04

up a piece about it here recently, we're really trying to be responsible and

1:41:08

can straining outputs that we're getting in, at least at

1:41:11

Blueberry and our AI, to exactly what's in

1:41:14

your transcript. So that, you you know and and so

1:41:18

far, it's not running home to mama and putting, but, you know, who knows? It could

1:41:21

change tomorrow. Things could go sideways. I think if you have specific tools and

1:41:25

specific use cases, it's fantastic. You know, I've

1:41:28

been doing some stuff recently that if nothing else, maybe go, I never thought

1:41:32

of that. And it sometimes it gives you ideas. You're

1:41:36

like, that's as stupid as they come,

1:41:39

because it's like it's not you know, I

1:41:41

said I asked it like a question, like

1:41:43

like a moonshot question recently. I said, give

1:41:45

me a moonshot for this. And then what it came up with was like, well, I

1:41:48

don't have a $1,000,000,000 to build what it suggested

1:41:53

for a moonshot. You know. And,

1:41:56

so but I I don't know. I think,

1:41:59

I think it's gonna be interesting time, especially,

1:42:02

2 years from now, it's it's really. If

1:42:06

we ever hit, level 3 then

1:42:09

if it really works at level 3, if

1:42:11

it works, it's gonna be life changing for everyone. But

1:42:16

that that I don't know what's gonna happen

1:42:18

to all of us on the web. I think I think we're all screwed

1:42:22

unless we put our foot down and build our brand.

1:42:24

You know, I I talked about it in the in the previous show. And for those

1:42:27

of you that haven't been here recently, your brand is gonna be very, very important

1:42:31

and you know who you're who your brand

1:42:33

serves. Who loves you? Yeah.

1:42:37

Yeah. And I've been hearing increasingly people saying

1:42:39

that, you know, really all of us need

1:42:41

to be thinking about our personal brand. That's

1:42:43

right. And and what authenticity

1:42:46

of connection that we bring to the market

1:42:49

that is outside of AI. Right?

1:42:52

And, and that's going to be the value

1:42:54

of human contribution in the world is going

1:42:57

to be our ability to connect with other

1:42:59

humans, at an authentic level.

1:43:02

And, and the big question I have in my mind

1:43:06

is what does that mean for our connection

1:43:08

with AI? How do we,

1:43:12

partition that away from our, the influence on our ability

1:43:17

to be human Yeah. Is really where the

1:43:20

the battle lines are gonna be drawn. AI

1:43:23

is not gonna replace humans. You know, case

1:43:25

in point, I'm hiring 4 people right now,

1:43:27

in specific areas. And,

1:43:31

but it will definitely change some of those

1:43:34

positions in 2 or 3 years might be able

1:43:37

to be done by an agent. Time will

1:43:39

tell. Or someone that knows how to manipulate

1:43:42

the data coming out of the agent so it doesn't sound like it, you know.

1:43:45

Anyway, we'll see. We'll see where it goes. Okay.

1:43:50

There was a 152100 things. So I wanna thank Martin, Emily, Darren,

1:43:56

everyone that made a comment today. Jennifer,

1:44:00

Dead America, everyone that was in the chat.

1:44:02

There was just too much stuff going on. You guys had a good time today, so

1:44:05

thank you. The chat is saved so that

1:44:07

you'll be able to go back if you want. Anyone that's listening to this later, you

1:44:10

can look at the chat that happened on the YouTube

1:44:13

channel. Rob, I'm sure your channel's been busy

1:44:16

too. So, lots of Eileen and just looking back

1:44:20

here. So thanks everyone that's been here for

1:44:22

the show. Of course, Adam's a big draw and

1:44:25

and, I appreciate again, appreciate Adam coming out.

1:44:28

I can be found at, geek at geek

1:44:31

news excuse me. Geek news atgmail.com@geeknews@geeknews.chatonmasadon@geeknewsonx.

1:44:39

Yes. I'm still over there and active because I'm a nerd.

1:44:43

And I can think for myself and sort

1:44:46

through the the stuff that, you know, the crazies are

1:44:49

talking about. Rob, how about you?

1:44:52

I can be found on x too, and, you

1:44:54

know, I think x is, a a glimpse into

1:44:59

the various extremes in our culture. And it's,

1:45:03

if you can moderate your your emotions and just ingest it for what it is

1:45:08

and not get too caught up in it. I I I think that's the key, but

1:45:12

but I do think it's a glimpse into the complexity of our society and our world

1:45:17

today. And if you can handle it, I think

1:45:20

it's good to keep an eye on it. So I'm over there as well and on

1:45:24

all the other social platforms. And,

1:45:27

I have a website, robgreenley.com. And

1:45:30

this show has a x account as well.

1:45:33

It's, n m s podcast.

1:45:38

Yeah. Nms podcast. Right. And

1:45:42

and I think anything else, if you wanna

1:45:44

send me an email, you're certainly welcome to.

1:45:47

It's just robgreenley@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you and input

1:45:51

about the show. And also, I'm sure Todd would love to

1:45:54

get that as well. If you are a

1:45:57

Blueberry customer, we are headed for a team,

1:46:01

and basically put our heads together. We're going

1:46:03

to, Jensen, Florida, Palm Beach,

1:46:06

next week. And we are going to be head down and strategizing

1:46:10

the next 12 months of what we're gonna be doing at Blueberry.

1:46:13

We're talking marketing. We're talking, AI. We're talking,

1:46:18

everything. So, 16 hours of

1:46:21

contributions of no email, no answering the phone,

1:46:25

basically working together to come up with some ideas for a Blueberry customer and you have

1:46:29

a bitch, complaint, suggestion, whatever it may be,

1:46:33

feel free to send me them over there and that's real easy. Todd@blueberry.com.

1:46:37

Otherwise, Rob, I will see you in 2 weeks. Now

1:46:41

here's the dealio. Our next show

1:46:46

on September 9th is excuse me. On October 9th is gonna

1:46:51

be my 2 year anniversary in podcasting.

1:46:55

Oh. So I a 2 year. 20 20

1:46:58

year. Year anniversary in podcasting. And I'm gonna be doing a special,

1:47:03

20 year anniversary Geek News Central that night

1:47:06

as well. So you'll get,

1:47:09

2 two bashes of it. If you're a g and c listener, you'll get,

1:47:14

me talking about it on the next episode

1:47:16

we're able to do together, then, you can

1:47:18

tune in about an hour and a half later and and get another run out of

1:47:21

it. So by that time, you'll be sick of me, if you aren't already. So,

1:47:25

yeah. Put that on your calendar. October 9th,

1:47:28

show up here same time, 3 o'clock EST.

1:47:31

We'd love to to hang out with you, and then, we'll be able to get to

1:47:35

the chat room a little more. And, then then, you know, Adam loves to talk

1:47:40

as he's obviously a a a great narrator in the podcasting

1:47:44

space. Yep. Alright. Alright. Well, thank you. Thanks for joining

1:47:49

us today. It's great to do another show and do a show

1:47:52

with Adam. It was fun. So, everyone, thanks

1:47:55

and stay subscribed. Newmi show.com. Take care. Bye