0:01

This is exactly right.

0:07

Each

0:07

year's six point five million animals

0:10

enter rescue centers looking for a second

0:12

chance. Cuddly works with more than thirty

0:14

five hundred animal shelters and rescue

0:16

centers to help support animals who have previously

0:18

been overlooked, abused, or

0:20

forgotten. Everyone

0:21

loves an animal survival story, and

0:23

now you can have the chance to make them possible.

0:26

Cuddly makes it easy to donate essential items

0:28

like toys, food, medication,

0:30

and even surgery to an animal of your

0:32

choice. And as that animal heals,

0:34

you'll receive updates on their condition and learn

0:36

about the rescuers who work selflessly to

0:38

help them. And I actually adopted my

0:40

pet cookie through mudscout, which is one

0:42

of Cuddly's favorite partners. So

0:44

go to cuddly dot com slash MFM

0:47

and Cuddly will donate an additional blanket

0:49

for every donation made. Choose a rescue

0:51

animal to support today at cuddly dot

0:53

com. Goodbye. Academy

0:57

Award nominee Carrie Mulligan and

0:59

Emmy nominee Zoe Kazan star

1:01

in she said, as New York Times reporters

1:03

Megan Tuohy and Jody Kantor, who

1:06

together broke one of the most important

1:08

stories in a generation. A story that

1:10

shattered decades of silence around the subject

1:12

of sexual assault in Hollywood and ignited

1:14

a shift in American culture that continues

1:16

to this day. The film CoStar's Oscar

1:18

nominee Patricia Clarkson, Emmy

1:20

Award winner, Andre Brauer, and

1:22

Tony winner, Jennifer Eli, with Academy

1:25

Award nominee, Samantha Morton. She

1:27

said arrives in theaters November eighteenth.

1:29

Goodbye.

1:48

Hello, and welcome

1:50

to my favorite murder. That's Georgia

1:52

Hard Stark. That's Karen Kaligara. And

1:55

this is a very special episode. It's a crossover

1:58

episode with a podcast.

1:59

that we talked about a while ago,

2:02

that you guys know, we all love.

2:04

We're so thrilled. Our guests

2:06

today are two investigative journalists

2:08

who broke one of the biggest true crime

2:10

stories of our time, arguably

2:13

of our time. Through their fearless

2:15

reporting, they took on the Old Boys Club

2:17

in South Carolina in exposed

2:19

years of legal fraud, exploitation,

2:22

and shocking multiple murders.

2:25

Please welcome to the show Mandy

2:27

Matty and Liz Farrell. Hi,

2:29

you guys. Hi. Hi,

2:31

guys. Hello. This is

2:33

so awesome. Yeah, this really is. I'm very

2:35

impressed by how you guys just did that. I was

2:37

reading

2:37

I was reading off the newspaper. That

2:40

I didn't memorize We're very used

2:43

to scripted.

2:43

this is different. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is

2:45

off the cuff. This is and first of all, we

2:47

have to ask if everyone warmed up their vocal

2:49

fry. It's hilarious. Extra

2:51

vocal fry today. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

2:53

Celebrate it. Yeah. Absolutely. People

2:56

are horrible. That's what we realized. So

2:59

You just don't want public feedback

3:01

kind of ever. But

3:03

it was it made me laugh so hard at whatever,

3:06

you know, it was very early on

3:08

when I was listening. and that was a thing

3:10

you started talking about where I was just

3:12

like, I guess this is just what

3:14

every female podcaster is going to have

3:16

to feel if they have any

3:18

kind of an audience. because this is the

3:20

criticism that people love

3:22

to throw as if, like,

3:24

as if it fucking matters, as if

3:27

as if you're supposed to have, like, talk like

3:29

Walter Cronkite. I'm not sure what they're

3:31

looking for. Yeah. I was

3:34

first well, I had never heard of Jessica before.

3:36

I had you guys when you got that I

3:38

literally was like, what are you? I mean, I was

3:40

I was not a rock a test journalist by any means.

3:42

So I didn't even think about, like, the way that I

3:44

talked.

3:45

Obviously, everyone doesn't really like

3:47

the sound of their own So I just always thought my

3:49

voice was annoying, and so does everybody else

3:51

take forever. But --

3:54

No. -- I was shocked. I remember

3:56

after launching, it was like three

3:58

hours in, I started to get a

3:59

flood of emails, and the podcast wasn't

4:02

I mean, it didn't

4:03

really get big for a while,

4:05

but Still a lot of people

4:07

that had found it and the

4:10

the thought process of them like

4:12

stopping what they were doing and emailing

4:15

me. about how

4:17

I need to fix my boys.

4:20

And I remember I remember

4:22

talking to Liz about it. I remember talking

4:24

to Dave and being like, do I address

4:26

this? What do I do? This

4:28

is absurd and I'm really trying to get

4:30

people to focus on the fact that there's

4:32

really bad people and

4:33

There's

4:35

a real point to this podcast. It isn't

4:38

like it's a comedy podcast or you're bantering.

4:39

You're talking, you're just speaking

4:41

about True crime. Yeah. And

4:43

they're focusing on your voice. Yeah.

4:45

Right. If a woman does anything slightly

4:47

wrong compared to men

4:49

doing things. even

4:51

though -- Right. -- the voice isn't even wrong.

4:53

No. It's just how I sound. It's it's

4:56

crazy. And the other

4:58

thing, I was just, like, I'll

5:00

just I'll just address it, who cares? And

5:02

but what shocked me is the amount

5:05

of, like, successful women who

5:07

reached out to me after that. Yeah. that

5:09

were like, I got that too blah

5:11

blah blah. And it felt like it was like a

5:13

community of support from

5:15

women who had been through the same thing.

5:18

And I also got a lot of feedback from just our

5:20

regular audience saying, oh, I had no idea you

5:22

were dealing with all of that on top of being an

5:24

investigative reporter in a super stressful

5:26

case. you're getting yelled at a

5:28

fucking voice on. But Yeah. Yeah.

5:31

And and the other like, I could go

5:33

on about how stupid vocal fryer.

5:37

But in the amount of people who are like,

5:39

you can change it. That's

5:42

why because I, like, compliment you. They're like,

5:44

oh, you guys are doing such a great job.

5:46

Yes. They start out with a compliment. Sure.

5:48

Like, you're complimenting me, but then you're

5:50

also talking about how terrible I

5:52

am about something. Well, and also it it's

5:54

a preference thing that they're expressing,

5:57

but I

5:57

have preferences about male

5:59

podcasters

5:59

speaking that I could talk

6:02

about all day long, and it's not just one thing,

6:04

it's like six, and I would never think.

6:06

Because it's that idea that

6:08

I have been trained in life to

6:10

know that they don't give a shit, that they're not

6:12

they don't even care what I think. So

6:15

why are women raised to if

6:17

they hear any feedback that's supposed

6:19

to be considered negative, they're gonna

6:21

change that right away. because God forbid,

6:24

they're not pleasing some mystery person

6:26

out in the world. It's just like, what are you

6:28

fucking talking about? And also, do you

6:30

know how many people speak like this? Like,

6:32

this is normal talking. Yeah. I got

6:34

to the point where I was like, well, it's not for

6:36

you. Exactly. This

6:38

is about, like, There's lots of podcasts

6:40

out there. There's lots of really

6:43

shitty ones from men. They talk

6:45

about things that they have no idea about listen

6:47

to that. I don't care. This isn't for

6:49

you. And that's fine that

6:51

people have podcasts out there that I don't

6:53

like, but I'm not gonna stop what I'm doing

6:55

and be like, Right. Taylor

6:57

your podcast to my personality

7:00

because I'm just Can you imagine if you've

7:02

lived your life that way? How would hosting.

7:05

But a lot sad. Yeah.

7:07

That's sad. Something that's really hit me in the

7:09

last year. It's like, man, if all these people

7:11

just put their energy to something

7:13

else. Just any Well, that idea

7:16

too of of that you're gonna stop

7:18

what you're doing, where what you're

7:20

doing is an is

7:22

entirely a public service to

7:24

expose some of the most

7:26

insane, like, white

7:28

collar criminals and then straight up

7:31

like murderers. Like this

7:33

story, the idea that that would be

7:35

anyone's reaction when the story you were

7:37

telling, and how that story

7:39

rolled out was so God

7:41

damn insane. Like, I couldn't

7:43

believe what I was hearing on that podcast. I I

7:45

actually called Adrian. I was just like,

7:47

you have to start listening to this. right

7:49

now because this I need someone

7:51

to witness this with me. Because,

7:53

essentially, Mandy, in the very

7:55

early days, you were breaking

7:57

this story Like, as you

7:59

were

7:59

reporting it, you were then coming to podcasts

8:02

to break the story on the podcast. Right?

8:04

You would talk you walk us through that

8:06

for anybody who hasn't heard Merdock

8:08

Motors podcast,

8:09

essentially, what that was.

8:11

Okay.

8:11

So, like, in summary, and

8:13

I thought about this. This story

8:15

is what happens when a powerful

8:18

family and their circle of friends

8:20

in a small town America get

8:23

away with whatever they want

8:24

for a hundred years. And

8:26

that family -- Yeah.

8:28

-- and that family produces Alex

8:30

Murdoch. And we're gonna call him today because

8:32

it's it's known as Elik,

8:34

Murdoch, and it's confusing.

8:36

They call it a South Carolina accent. We'll just

8:38

call Alex and make it simple. Oh,

8:41

wait. Okay. It's a South Carolina act

8:43

yeah. In South Carolina, a lot of

8:45

times sometimes they call Alex

8:47

as Elliott is am I saying

8:49

alright, Liz? Yeah. It's

8:51

Elliott. And we had to do it because

8:53

we're just, you know, to have any

8:55

sort of street cred with the people we are talking

8:57

to. And it's actually several

8:59

pronunciations. It's like, if you are

9:01

actually in Hampton, you're saying

9:03

murder. Like, it's just it,

9:05

like, spits out of your murder flag. You know,

9:07

like, murder. Yeah. And even at his

9:09

own firm, it seems like they were spelling it

9:11

with the c. Like, they didn't even

9:13

know that Alex is not

9:15

pronounced Savi. So I don't know.

9:17

It's hard because it's just like you wanna sound like,

9:19

you know, you're you know what talking

9:21

about, but then it's just so exhausting to say

9:23

it every time. And you know what's weirder is

9:26

during court, he would sometimes

9:28

pronounce his own name the right way.

9:30

it's like was aware. He is aware that

9:32

his name is not the way most

9:34

people say it. Yeah. In court,

9:36

well, we realized that in court,

9:38

they do the way that it spelled so

9:40

the court reporters get it right. And then

9:42

so in court people are like, are you sure you're

9:44

pronouncing this right? And it's like, god.

9:46

You could do a whole side podcast. about

9:49

this. I it really could.

9:51

And I get I get shit for

9:53

it all the time. Like, why are you pronouncing

9:55

it? And, like, I kinda regret it.

9:59

Okay.

9:59

So his

10:01

family ultimately

10:03

produced Alex

10:04

Murdoch who is

10:06

now tied to five deaths since two

10:08

thousand fifteen. And again, not

10:11

accused of murder in all five of those

10:13

deaths. but tied to them in different ways.

10:15

In the last year, Liz

10:17

and I were counting today, and

10:19

he's at ninety charges.

10:21

Okay. I believe

10:23

between -- Oh. -- something like that.

10:25

Between the murder of his wife and son, the

10:27

biggest one. his suicide

10:29

for hire incident, which was just

10:31

the craziest that that was the part

10:33

of the story that just, like, sent everything off

10:35

for rails. So it's like a fake suicide,

10:37

but then we believe that the fake

10:39

suicide story is also fake.

10:41

Really? Yeah. It's

10:43

double fake. I really

10:45

don't think of a suicide. Yeah. Or

10:47

any sort of it it was just to us, it

10:49

always looked like he wanted

10:51

him it it'll look like his family was

10:53

being targeted. Right. Got it.

10:55

So this whole thing, like, the

10:57

world found out about the Murdock family

10:59

last June, for the most part.

11:01

It was making international headlines

11:03

right after Maggie and Paul

11:05

Murdoch were found murdered at

11:07

their hunting lodge called Nozel in a

11:10

very small town and

11:12

the low country of South Carolina,

11:14

which is just an area, the coastal area

11:16

of South Carolina. And

11:19

when that happened, like,

11:21

Liz and I were, like, our whole world's

11:23

changed. Right? Like because we

11:25

were sitting on this pile of research

11:28

for the past and reporting for

11:30

the past two years at that point.

11:33

Because when we were at the island packet,

11:35

two newspaper reporters, I guess

11:37

we were editors at the time, we

11:40

both started covering the

11:42

death and Mallory Beach in the book crash.

11:44

Mhmm. Yeah. So tell us about that. Tell the

11:46

listeners about that one that kinda

11:48

kicked it off. Yeah. Liz, do you

11:50

wanna take the boat crash? Yeah. It was I think

11:52

it was it was a weekend. Right? And

11:54

we got the call that there was

11:56

a boat crash. And we

11:58

found out pretty early on that one

11:59

of the passengers

12:00

on the boat was named Paul Murdoch. And

12:03

we knew that name vaguely

12:05

at that point because we had heard about

12:07

the Steven Smith case. Really,

12:10

like, within the last year before

12:12

that, and we're kind of considering taking

12:14

it on. But, yeah,

12:16

it's this girl. So Paul and his

12:18

friends, there are five people that he had taken

12:20

on a boat. They went to an oyster

12:22

roast. down the road, as you say, I guess, on

12:24

the on the river. And

12:26

they ended up crashing really early

12:28

in the morning, and nineteen

12:30

year old girl from Hampton County named

12:32

Mallory Beach, went

12:34

missing. She was missing for a week in the water,

12:36

which

12:36

was horrible. And

12:37

they found her body. And it basically

12:40

from there, I mean, from the minute, it

12:42

hit go. We knew that we had to look out for

12:44

corruption because

12:46

we knew the thing that people said about the Murdochs was that

12:49

anything they get into as Counterfact

12:51

leaders said that who was one of the passengers

12:53

on the boat they can get out of.

12:55

So we were just looking for,

12:57

like, where law enforcement? Were they

12:59

doing what they were supposed to? Like, what

13:01

was going on behind the scenes? And

13:03

it went how many it was two months

13:05

before we saw charges. And it

13:07

just actually seemed for a minute, like, we weren't going

13:09

to see charges in it. So it was kind of actually

13:11

surprising that that ended up happening. Right? And that's

13:13

because this family is when you say

13:15

a hundred years of this -- Oh, yeah. --

13:17

it's because they're a family

13:19

of lawyers, like a dynasty of

13:21

lawyers. Is that right? Not just lawyers, yeah,

13:23

there so in South Carolina, the

13:25

district attorney of circuit is

13:27

called us the listener. So it's real

13:29

old timing. And so

13:31

they are three generations of solicitors

13:33

up until two thousand six.

13:35

And then the current solicitor of

13:37

this area is somebody

13:39

that they handpicked to put in that

13:41

position. So they had him appointed

13:43

by the governor and he's been reelected

13:45

ever since. And so they are

13:47

not only, you know, Like, what

13:49

people say is the Murdoch's under the law here. Right.

13:51

And it's a five county system. So,

13:54

you know,

13:54

where the coast where we live. So

13:57

there's the boating and all that. They have their hunting

13:59

lodges and the other counties

13:59

and the rural areas. It's it's like

14:01

their playground basically. So,

14:04

everyone knows them in law

14:06

enforcement pretty much. And, yeah,

14:09

that's that you have a reputation of

14:11

getting their way -- Yeah. -- one way or

14:13

another. Mhmm. And they had the law firm too.

14:15

So they were able to it's

14:17

crazy, but, like, two sides of the law, they

14:19

were able in this very small

14:22

town. They

14:22

had this very powerful civil

14:25

law known for a huge payout.

14:27

But this isn't, like, one of those fancy

14:29

lovers. Like, it's not, like, something with,

14:31

like, glen

14:31

clothes. It's, like, it's Wait.

14:35

What else did you say?

14:36

Well, I wanna ask you this. Like, you guys

14:39

mentioned Steven Smith and and

14:41

having kind of a little tingle love. So things not

14:43

gonna be not right and we should look out for this

14:45

Murdoch, you know, name.

14:47

Can you bring us all the way back to twenty

14:49

fifteen and tell us, that,

14:50

like, that's kind of the beginning of a story in

14:52

a in a lot of ways for you guys.

14:54

Right? Yeah. So Liz found out

14:56

about it in two thousand eighteen, and she told me

14:58

about it but

14:59

it was very vague and, like,

15:01

I I kind of remember, and I remember

15:04

writing a little a few things down, but I

15:06

remember at the time being, like, Well,

15:08

that's in Hampton County. And, you know,

15:10

traditional newspapers, you have, like, a

15:12

border that you work around. And if it's

15:14

outside the border, then

15:15

and it was outside Beaufort County. So

15:17

It was like being on the moon. It was so

15:19

far away even though it's only an hour away. Well,

15:22

so what happened? Basically, when this

15:24

boat crash happen, we started

15:26

seeing all of these post

15:28

online saying justice for Steven

15:30

Emallory from Hampton County

15:32

people. Justice for Steven

15:33

Emallory. And we're

15:35

like, what's going on? Like and

15:38

Liz started putting it together, and I started

15:40

I started just messaging

15:43

anybody that I could from Hampton County just like,

15:45

what's going on here? What

15:47

happened to Steven? And within

15:49

a week or two, we

15:52

went to

15:52

go see we found Sandy Smith,

15:55

Stephen's mom, and went to go see her in

15:57

Hampton. And

15:58

she had

16:00

literally a kitchen table full

16:02

of police documents

16:05

that she had personally fully

16:07

had and she had in

16:09

letters that she had written, autopsy,

16:11

everything. She's like, I'll give you give you

16:13

anything. I just want anybody to look

16:15

into this. Mhmm. she

16:16

smelled that something was wrong

16:19

from that case from the very beginning.

16:21

And so Liz and I said,

16:23

absolutely, we'll look into everything

16:25

and we

16:25

pulled at those strings for the next

16:27

two years, but there was no time

16:30

to with a story like that where

16:32

you have to go back in time and dig

16:34

stuff up especially, like, the the

16:36

island pack of the newspaper that we were at

16:38

was so small at the time

16:40

we were down, like, remember

16:42

how many reporters, we were down -- Only them. -- I

16:44

don't remember. But they're we didn't

16:46

really have a reporter. Yeah. It was and

16:48

we were just constantly, like, pressured

16:50

to produce change views and not do like these deep

16:53

dive investigative reporters, which is a big

16:55

problem with journalism today and everything. It's

16:57

a small paper, but we were owned

16:59

by a big corporation. So

17:01

we're owned by a Monologic company.

17:03

So you have, like, the small town park, but

17:05

then you also have this, like,

17:07

pressure from the big guys who who want that profit. Right? And

17:09

so so Steven Smith, his case

17:11

got ruled a hit and run. And

17:13

what about those police reports

17:16

and all the, you know, the reporting that

17:18

his mother had uncovered

17:20

made you think otherwise in this

17:22

case. And he had been it

17:24

was ten miles from the Murdock home was where

17:26

the hit and run had happened. Yeah.

17:28

So, like, in our free time, Liz and I we

17:30

got the investigation and we just started

17:33

like, listening to all the audio interviews. Well, you

17:35

got leaked to the investigation. I think

17:37

that's important because, you know, if we were to

17:39

foil the investigation, it would have

17:42

been redact. and we wouldn't have seen half as

17:43

much. So and it was because technically,

17:45

it was still an open case. So

17:47

Mandy got leaked the entire

17:49

case file or at least what looks like the entire case file

17:52

so for both of us, I would say it was

17:54

the photos. Right? Like, for me, it was

17:56

photos for you, Mindy? Well, yeah, the I mean, the

17:59

photos, it did

17:59

not look like a hit and run, and we asked several law

18:02

enforcement sources of

18:04

like, what do you look for? Blah, blah, blah, show

18:06

them the photos? Yeah. We show them the yeah.

18:08

And said it could this possibly be a hit

18:10

run. And, I mean, most of the

18:12

damage was done to his face. So how do you

18:14

get hit and their conclusion was

18:17

maybe he got hit by a truck

18:19

mirror But,

18:20

like, think about that happening. And the Smith

18:22

will say this over and over there. Like, that's

18:24

insulting to say that about our son. And, like, she was

18:26

a smart kid. was

18:28

a nursing student. He wasn't gonna let and he

18:30

was completely sober that night. He

18:33

wasn't gonna let a truck

18:35

mirror because he have to -- Yeah. -- think it it

18:37

was just crazy. And then he also --

18:39

Not event made sense. Not event. -- none of

18:41

it made sense. And then you looked

18:43

through the case file and everybody

18:45

on scene and everybody who was investigating

18:48

it didn't really believe it was a hit and

18:50

run. Mhmm. And there there's

18:52

nowhere that anybody says,

18:54

this is definitely a hit and run, and here's

18:56

why. Oh. The only person who

18:58

enrolled it was a hit and run was the

19:00

pathologist, doctor Erin Pressnell,

19:02

and she kinda

19:03

gotten to a fight with him. Troll

19:06

and it's weird. Remember

19:08

us reading that document for the person was, we were

19:10

like, I've never seen this in a Never.

19:12

I've never seen this in case file before.

19:14

It's like public officials basically talking shit

19:16

on each other. Yeah. They don't put that stuff in

19:18

writing unless they're trying to signal

19:20

something as a miss here. Wow.

19:22

So you think those cops on the

19:24

scene knew something was up?

19:26

Well, we think that they knew that wasn't a hit

19:28

and run. Mhmm. I mean, that

19:30

is pretty clear. But as far as like

19:32

who was pulling the strings, if

19:34

strings are being pulled, not necessarily

19:36

all of them. I mean,

19:38

But it it definitely, you know, you

19:40

can't you cannot walk away from that case

19:42

file without feeling like something. It

19:45

really definitely was being covered up here. And

19:47

the photos of him, like, from the crime

19:49

scene, his or I should say, the accident

19:51

scene, as they called it, his

19:54

arms are sort of behind him and

19:56

his knees are together and, like, sort of, splayed

19:58

to the, you know, I think, the left or the right.

19:59

So it almost looks like you

20:02

had somebody you know, from our uneducated opinion,

20:04

holding him by his arms and somebody else holding

20:06

him by his legs and dropping him on the ground. And,

20:08

like, you know, where he would lay in place. And when

20:10

Mandy says, you know, he

20:12

didn't look like he was in a head

20:14

run. You

20:14

know, everything about him was pristine. I mean,

20:16

like, he had a few scratches on

20:18

his arm, but when he has his face, it's just

20:21

one clear impact

20:23

mark. And it's on, I believe, inside

20:25

of his head, where had he been walking in the

20:27

direction of his home it

20:29

truly

20:29

would not have made sense because the car

20:31

would have to have been coming oncoming, and it would

20:33

hit him on the other side of the step is for

20:36

it. So it's just logic tells

20:38

you you

20:38

know, this isn't right. And then how many

20:41

times did we see Buster Murdoch's name

20:43

in that report, Mandy? So, I mean, the Murdoch

20:45

name was brought up forty times. Oh,

20:47

wow. Wow. Just all of these

20:49

people that they interviewed saying, we've heard the

20:51

Murdoch Kids have something to do with

20:53

it. We've blah blah blah. And, I

20:55

mean, it just kept going on and on, but

20:57

what's weird is that it just the

20:59

case all of a sudden just ended. like --

21:01

Uh-huh. -- they tried to call Buster

21:03

Murdoch one time and

21:05

left a voicemail. And

21:08

then the case is closed. Wow.

21:10

Wow. Not

21:10

closed, but it went cold. Yeah.

21:12

And then the other main thing that I

21:14

keep forgetting to mention is there was no

21:17

trace of any evidence

21:19

of a vehicular homicide.

21:20

So there was no mere pieces --

21:22

Right. -- on the scene, there was no

21:25

pieces car. Shoes were on loosely

21:27

tied. Like shoes were on.

21:29

There was just no one to get no tire

21:31

marks, which always happens with hit and

21:33

runs even if a person keeps going. There's

21:35

usually some sort of timer. Like, again, it's

21:37

positioning. Yeah. Let me ask you

21:39

guys this because now you're talking about things that go all

21:41

the way to the top

21:43

and these are some big

21:45

scary people at the top. It could be.

21:47

If you guys get worried about reporting

21:50

on And I know there was one incident where you

21:52

felt like you were being followed to get worried

21:54

about reporting on these these big wigs. That's why

21:56

the vocal front thing is so funny

21:58

because it's, like, I

22:00

don't think people realize. We are, you know,

22:02

having to protect our, you know, lives to a

22:04

certain degree here in the sense that, you

22:07

know, yeah,

22:07

if walks up to Mandy's house while, you

22:09

know, we're here, we both sort of

22:11

have that moment of leg because

22:14

this is happening. Yeah.

22:16

Mhmm. So That happens all

22:18

the time. At least probably got a therapy for

22:20

it or something. Right. So you

22:23

guys have dogs. I think get a

22:25

bigger dog. Yeah. Yeah. And,

22:27

like, I've really stepped up my home

22:29

security system in the last

22:31

year. And the

22:31

other thing that's terrible about it is all

22:34

of the and people are

22:36

being nice, but they freaked me out

22:38

even more. I mean, since twenty

22:40

teen at the beginning. Be careful of the smart light.

22:42

I'm I'm worried for you. I'm scared for

22:44

your safety. I hope you're

22:45

being careful. Our friends and law enforcement

22:48

say it. Our friends and law enforcement say it. Our friends

22:49

law enforcement we had one

22:50

of so the incident that you're referring

22:53

to happened when we went to

22:55

go interview a source And

22:58

afterward, we went to the scene where

23:00

Stephen had been killed. And this is

23:02

like

23:02

a wide open road. You know, these

23:04

are you know,

23:05

like, how do people know we're there, but our friend

23:07

who was a cop begged

23:09

us not to go. And he was just

23:11

like, you're not, like, being

23:13

serious here. Like, we you don't need to be

23:15

there. And sure enough, you know, we had

23:17

him we did our, like, location sharing

23:19

with him and sure enough

23:21

it ended up having you know, Mandy ended up having

23:23

to call him because we were driving away from

23:25

the scene and we didn't linger or

23:27

anything like that and We're driving

23:29

way when, like, in the distance, we

23:31

can see, like, a silver SUV kind of

23:33

coming toward us. And I was, like, oh, no.

23:36

And he stopped. So, like, imagine you're on

23:38

a two lane highway. You're going.

23:40

You're driving speed limit. Mhmm. And he's

23:42

driving towards you. And he it's almost like

23:44

he saw. and then he

23:46

stops, and then he does, like, a slow return and comes behind

23:48

me. And it's a state highway,

23:50

South Carolina highway patrolman.

23:52

You know, again, like, the highway patrolman here.

23:54

They're not that's

23:55

not their thing. Like, investigating

23:58

murders. Right? They're investigating hit and runs or, like,

23:59

highly trained in that. And so, these guys were

24:02

handed the case for a

24:04

reason if somebody was pulling the

24:06

strings here. So, yeah, it was

24:08

a very sweaty, like,

24:10

scary moment. So

24:12

Mandy called up our friend and had him on

24:14

speaker just in case. And I'll

24:17

tell you even recently, I

24:19

was driving through. This is the stupidest thing

24:21

I've done. I was driving through Hampton County to go

24:23

to the courthouse, to go to the Probe Court, and I

24:25

was like, why are you doing this? You're

24:28

an idiot. and I had forgotten that I had

24:30

not put the sticker on my

24:32

license plate. Like, you know how you feel like up

24:34

during the year. And

24:36

so I was like, oh, no. Like, it looks like

24:38

I have an expired license plate. So

24:40

luckily, I used to work for the Beaufort County

24:42

Sheriff's Office for about a year and

24:44

a half before joining

24:47

Mandy. And the sheriff happened to call

24:49

me. He just had a question about something. You

24:51

know, just like, randomly, and so

24:53

he stayed on the phone with me until

24:55

I left Hampton County by

24:57

his own -- Wow. -- like, he was

24:59

like, Yeah. So, you know, just sort

25:01

of hammer's home, like, how

25:04

seriously those around us are taking. So,

25:06

like, obviously, we're taking our like

25:08

to. Yeah. Well and there that

25:10

is what gave it that very David

25:12

and Goliath kind of feeling

25:14

at the beginning of that podcast because

25:16

it's, like, you guys essentially

25:18

stumble upon

25:19

one story that leads into another that

25:22

leads into potential cover

25:24

up that leads into this, that there's people

25:26

waiting to go, I can't talk to anybody about

25:28

this, can I talk to you about it, and

25:30

it's building a

25:31

case against one of the most powerful

25:34

legal families for

25:36

hundreds of years in the area.

25:39

So like, that, yeah, that

25:41

idea that that's you were just basically like,

25:43

well, we have to keep going. I mean, did you

25:45

ever think I need to

25:47

quit or I'm gonna quit? No. I

25:49

mean, I I mean,

25:51

maybe we should. Did

25:53

I want to?

25:55

Absolutely. At this

25:57

point, I'm just very tired of it. I'm

25:59

like, god, I'd

25:59

really like to wrap this up, and

26:02

now I'm just kidding. But

26:05

initially, when we started talking to

26:07

those first few sources in Hanson

26:09

who were so upset,

26:11

I remember this one woman called

26:14

me crying a couple. And Mallory was still

26:16

missing at that point. And

26:18

she was just like, this

26:20

family has gotten away with everything.

26:23

and they're gonna get away with this too. And this has

26:25

to end now. Like, somebody has

26:27

to do something. And

26:30

those words just resonated so much

26:32

with both of us and with that

26:34

Liz and I were just kinda looked at each other and

26:36

we're like, we can be the difference,

26:39

whereas for

26:39

a hundred years, there was nobody to I

26:41

mean, they rolled the paper there. They rolled

26:43

everything. Yeah. Everything. Everything.

26:45

And I do understand too, like,

26:48

I

26:49

will admit, I do not feel comfortable in

26:51

Hampton County. Yeah. Things are getting a

26:53

lot better, but I

26:56

under stood the secrecy

26:58

and the fear that we were experiencing

27:01

early on. Yeah. So, like, sometimes

27:03

we joke that this is like a haunted

27:05

house because you are reading, like, old

27:07

stories from the past. And you're like,

27:09

oh my god. We're reading about the same

27:11

freaking people who have the same

27:13

names. you know, I'm not gonna say around that. It's like Thomas Smith,

27:15

you know, the first, and then it goes all the

27:17

way to the sixth. And so you

27:19

just feel like it's never ending.

27:22

So I think the culture like I don't feel bad for the people of

27:24

Hampton County in the sense that they're

27:26

good people.

27:26

It's just that they live

27:28

in a

27:28

place where the industry is

27:32

a

27:32

law firm that has profited

27:35

mightily off of

27:36

its ability to control its

27:39

juries.

27:39

Wow. And how it controls its

27:41

juries is something that, you know, will be

27:43

revealed at some point when it's

27:45

not libelous to say. But,

27:48

yeah, it's so you have that. They

27:50

were known for their, like, astronomical settlements.

27:52

So when Mandy found that document for

27:54

Gloria Satterfield, that is

27:57

Alex Housekeeper, Alex and Maggie's

27:59

longtime housekeeper

27:59

who died as a result of fall

28:02

at their Mossau property. When

28:04

Mandy

28:04

found that document, I

28:06

remember thinking, like, five hundred thousand dollars settlement

28:08

doesn't seem that big a deal.

28:09

Like, you know, given that

28:11

it's Hampton County. And as we found

28:13

out, you know,

28:13

it was much bigger than that,

28:16

who gets a four point three million

28:18

dollar settlement for, you know, a

28:20

trip and fall at a house? So

28:21

that's because of that. That is

28:23

where the power eyes. Right? Mhmm. So you

28:26

have this firm that has helped all these

28:28

people get these types

28:29

of settlements. so

28:32

you owe an allegiance to them in some way or

28:34

you just wanna keep your head down and do your job and

28:36

not, you know so

28:37

I think that's the hard thing about Hampton

28:40

County. Yeah. So they're so scared and

28:42

and they're not complicit necessarily. Some

28:45

of them I definitely aren't, but Some of

28:47

them are. Yeah. Some of them definitely

28:49

are. But this system is just old. It's

28:51

like it's set. It's old and

28:53

new. It benefit it behoves you to stay

28:55

on that the right their

28:56

right side. Yes. Yeah. That's perfectly put. Yeah.

28:58

That is still perfectly put.

29:00

Subscribe

29:03

to HelloFresh and check save

29:05

money off your fall to do list. HelloFresh

29:07

is less expensive than grocery shopping

29:09

and even twenty five percent cheaper than

29:11

takeout. With Lofresh, ingredients travel

29:13

from the farm to your doorstep in

29:15

less than seven days, so you know

29:18

they're plus pre portion ingredients make cooking

29:20

easier and cut down on food

29:22

waste. Kaldafresh is now offering vegan

29:24

recipes on the menu each week.

29:26

These options are made without animal products of any kind

29:28

like dairy, meat, eggs, or

29:30

honey. Try meals like sweet chili

29:32

tofu bowls or spicy coconut

29:34

curry stir fry. And

29:36

now that follows officially here, enjoy a

29:38

rotating selection of fall inspired items

29:40

from HelloFresh Market. Not only did I

29:42

get my three meals from HelloFresh this

29:44

week, but I got one of their

29:47

little quick lunches, which is just an

29:49

Asian chicken salad with the pre cooked

29:51

chicken. So all I have to do is chop up

29:53

the chicken Throw it in the salad, and I have a nice, healthy,

29:55

quick lunch. Go to hello fresh dot com

29:57

slash MFM sixty five and use

29:59

code MFM sixty five for

30:01

sixty five percent off plus free shipping.

30:03

Again, that's hello fresh dot com slash MFM

30:06

sixty five. promo code MFM

30:08

sixty five for sixty five

30:10

percent off and free shipping. Hello fresh,

30:13

America's number one meal kit. Goodbye.

30:15

When you're busy or constantly

30:18

on the go, it can be hard to squeeze in the

30:20

things you love, like reading. That's where

30:22

Audible comes in. You can enjoy a great

30:24

book and multitask at the

30:26

same time. From best sellers to new

30:28

releases, memoirs to thrillers, and

30:30

many others, Audible offers an

30:32

amazing selection of audiobooks across

30:34

every genre, including exclusive Audible originals from

30:36

top celebrities, renowned experts, and

30:38

exciting new voices in audio. As

30:40

an Audible member, you can choose one title

30:42

a month to keep from their entire

30:44

catalog including the latest best sellers

30:46

and new releases. Basically, the way

30:48

I get the dishes done is by

30:50

listening to books or like listening to

30:53

my phone and the idea that Audible,

30:55

you know they have the most giant selection.

30:57

Like anything you're looking for in

30:59

any genre, you're gonna be able to find it

31:01

and then keep it if you really love

31:04

that once you're done listening to it. Oh, yeah. I have so many that I've

31:06

already listened to a million times that I fall asleep to

31:08

at night now. I love it so much. Let Audible

31:10

help you discover new ways to

31:12

laugh, be inspired, or be

31:14

entertained. New members can try it for free for thirty days,

31:17

visit audible dot com slash murder or text

31:19

murder to five hundred five

31:21

hundred. That's audible dot com slash murder or text murder

31:23

to five hundred five hundred to try

31:25

Audible for free for thirty days. Audible

31:27

dot com slash murder. Goodbye.

31:30

i Pluto TV is your

31:32

perfect partner in crime. All month long,

31:34

streamed the biggest crime movies and TV

31:36

shows for free during Pluto TVs

31:40

crime tober. Immerge yourself in the

31:42

notorious world of New York's mafia with

31:44

the godfather trilogy or the Las

31:46

Vegas gangster scene, with sleepless. Or

31:48

maybe you're looking for binge worthy mysteries

31:50

like murder on the orient express, CSI

31:52

and forensic files. Pluto

31:54

TV has hundreds channels with thousands more

31:57

movies and TV shows all available

31:59

live and on demand.

31:59

It's so free, it's criminal. No

32:02

credit card, no subscriptions, no

32:04

fees. Download the Pluto TV app on all your devices

32:06

and start streaming

32:07

now. Pluto TV, drop in,

32:09

watch free. Goodbye. Goodbye.

32:12

Well, how shocked were

32:14

you guys when you're, like, your knee deep

32:16

in reporting all of this

32:18

and this family and

32:20

the unexplained and unprosecuted

32:23

deaths. And then Paul

32:25

and Maggie Murdoch, the son

32:27

and the wife of

32:29

Alex Murdoch, are shot to death.

32:31

Like,

32:31

how and that's why you're

32:34

reporting on this case. How shocking

32:36

was

32:36

that for you?

32:37

Mandy was in Puerto Rico and it was the

32:39

worst night of my life because I wasn't a

32:42

I was at the sheriff's office and

32:44

I got woken up by a source of mind

32:46

when I was a journalist and

32:48

it was about one twenty in the

32:50

morning, one thirty, something like that. Mhmm. And

32:52

he said Maggie and Paul have been killed.

32:54

They've been shot. And I was like, wait, what? And

32:56

I just remember being oddly emotional

32:59

about that even though I

33:01

really viewed those two people as a

33:03

borant to a certain degree at that point

33:05

just because of everything I saw the people around

33:07

them

33:07

being put through. And for just for

33:09

people who might not know sorry -- Yeah. --

33:12

Paul, the one who was shot

33:14

and killed was the one

33:16

driving that boat? Yes.

33:18

That is Paul. Yeah. This is the

33:20

red string connecting. This is your

33:22

homeland red string connecting this

33:24

whole insane conspiracy

33:26

theory. Yeah. That's that's absolutely

33:28

right. He's charged for

33:30

for is it manslaughter BUY

33:33

So it's bloating under the influence? Yeah.

33:35

Three felonies. Causing a death. Yeah.

33:37

So three felonies and two for

33:39

the injuries of other people on the boat for

33:42

the passengers on the boat and one for

33:44

the death and outreach. So

33:46

he was facing twenty five years

33:48

and what I believe in prison. Oh,

33:50

yeah. Yeah. If you had to

33:52

speculate, you think they think that's why his

33:54

father would have killed him is

33:56

just the shame or they

33:58

don't feel shame. I like

33:59

Murdoch has never felt shame in his

34:02

life.

34:02

Right. So I I

34:04

forgot people don't feel what I feel on

34:06

a regular basis for real. It

34:08

must be nice. Right? Yeah. the

34:13

more that we think about it, the more that

34:15

we put the pieces together. And again, this

34:17

is still

34:18

an active

34:19

situation, and we have

34:21

gotten very few actual answers from law enforcement for why

34:23

the murders took place. However,

34:25

we have found

34:27

the boat crash

34:29

was really the first domino to fall

34:30

that would ultimately be the end

34:33

of the Murdoch family -- Mhmm.

34:35

-- in their dynasty. because

34:38

it a put the spotlight on the buttocks

34:40

in a way that they had not had

34:42

before. They were powerful, but they weren't

34:44

-- Yeah. --

34:45

in the spotlight. You know, they they threw

34:47

a lot of money to a lot of different

34:49

political campaigns.

34:51

there They were

34:52

doing their lawyer stuff, have their that they

34:54

weren't in the media all the time. Like, normal people didn't know their

34:56

names. We outside of where they're from, their

34:58

names weren't really well known. Yeah.

35:02

Exactly. And Hampton is very small. It's

35:04

a really, really small county.

35:07

Mhmm. So everyone there, of course,

35:09

need their names. But anybody outside

35:12

I mean, kind of, but and we'll get to that later,

35:14

but

35:14

it put them in

35:16

the

35:16

spotlight. And then right

35:19

after the boat crash,

35:22

there was a lawsuit filed. I believe, and Liz

35:25

believes, really put a

35:26

lot of pressure

35:28

on Alex

35:30

Murdoch. in a way that

35:32

he had not felt before on his finances, which we now realize

35:34

is just a massive

35:38

criminal activity. I I

35:40

can't even how

35:42

could we even have predicted that. Right?

35:44

Yeah. I had no idea that it was

35:46

this bad. it turns out he wasn't really

35:48

a lawyer this or a lot

35:50

of the time he was still feeling from

35:53

people, which is terrible. In the

35:55

most vulnerable people, in the most vulnerable situations, and not something

35:57

that we've really wanted to highlight in our

35:59

podcast is, like, look, these

36:01

are financial crimes but

36:04

he was hurting these

36:05

people and he really damaged in them

36:07

in a way that it's

36:10

hard to explain

36:10

until you have the victims themselves

36:13

slain it. And they were very

36:15

ruthless crimes just because they're

36:17

white

36:17

color or whatever. It's still

36:19

They're still victims. Yeah.

36:22

Yeah. Absolutely. that mean those people where it's like, you're turning

36:24

to a law firm to

36:26

fight for your rights because, you

36:28

know, the the one I'm thinking of is

36:30

the person

36:32

who was paralyzed. And for a car accident,

36:34

they get a settlement, and then they keep

36:36

Okay. Yeah. And then they keep, like,

36:40

what? eighty percent. Nine I mean, just a gigantic

36:42

amount. They kept a they he

36:44

kept a portion of it. It's so

36:47

confused. He was a quadriplegic he was made a quadriplegic by that

36:49

accident, and he was also already deaf.

36:52

And his family, obviously, before the

36:54

settlement came through,

36:56

couldn't afford to keep him close to the home because it's just not that

36:58

kind of care. So he was about I think he was, like, an

37:00

hour and forty five minutes away and sort

37:02

of just vulnerable to the whole

37:04

situation. So his settlement

37:06

came through the timing of it so weird. And

37:08

there's questions about whether he died

37:10

before the settlement. So whether I like

37:12

misrepresented that was alive -- Oh,

37:14

wow. -- you know, in order to get that settlement

37:16

because had he died, it would have

37:18

lessened the settlement altogether.

37:20

So Right. I don't know

37:22

if he stole most of it. It was just more

37:24

that he stole a good bit

37:26

of it, but he also pretended that

37:28

he, you know, definitely pretended that He came

37:30

was alive. when Buckingham was not alive according

37:33

to documents that we found. Which is

37:35

so terrible. Yeah. Just

37:37

craving greed and like, just

37:39

a fraud, just complete fraud. Yeah.

37:42

No no care. Yeah. And we've I

37:44

mean, the amount he clearly

37:47

targeted people for their

37:49

vulnerability. Mhmm. Most of

37:51

their victims are people of color.

37:53

Most

37:53

of them were in horrible

37:56

and Alex was also really good

37:58

at looking people in the eye and saying

37:59

I got your back buddy

38:01

and these people and

38:04

it's so horrible when you think about

38:06

it like think of the worst time in your life and a person that you

38:08

thought was helping you,

38:10

like, ten years ago, that's what the pink knees

38:11

were dealing with. Ten years ago, all this

38:13

went down and

38:16

like

38:16

Alex was their lawyer, their guy, and they thought that

38:18

he was doing the right thing for them

38:20

and fighting for them. And he

38:24

would say, look, we're doing everything. We can't I'm so sorry about all the

38:26

he said all the right things to to

38:28

these people, and then now they're just

38:32

dealing with pure betrayal. Yeah. Yeah. Thinking back to the

38:34

worst time of their life when they were so

38:36

vulnerable and

38:38

and, like, thankful for

38:40

this person who was just robbing them.

38:42

It's just so cold and

38:43

that's another thing

38:45

that we've discovered. a

38:46

lot of people when the murders happen, and we're all over the place here because this whole case

38:48

is all over the place. Yeah. Yes.

38:51

Unbelievable. It's just sprawling. We

38:53

used to say that there's monsters around so in

38:56

two thousand nineteen, when we were we were

38:58

reporting this, Mandy and I would

38:59

like I mean, we were we're trying

39:01

to say the word obsessed, but we were obsessed with it. And the

39:04

sense that we knew, it's like, when you get that

39:06

feeling, you're like, something is not alright. They're trying

39:08

to pull one over on us.

39:09

So we were just constantly talking about it

39:12

constantly researching outside of work

39:14

and, you know, we would talk about there being

39:16

monsters around

39:16

every corner because with

39:18

this case, it's not as simple even when I was

39:21

driving here

39:21

to Mandy's house today, I got a

39:23

text from somebody that

39:26

was, like, Hey, did you hear that the guy who bought Marcel

39:28

from the Murdoch's killed

39:30

himself? And I was like,

39:32

wow. No.

39:34

I don't wanna know that. Is that

39:36

true? No. It is not true.

39:38

But great. Rumor. because that's

39:40

that's a step too far. Yeah.

39:42

But but I would imagine, yeah. the rumors

39:44

going around. Absolutely. Yeah. So

39:46

the rumors, you're, like, the the most

39:48

preposterous rumor comes and mandarin are,

39:50

like, no. because most

39:52

times it does turn out to be true. And

39:54

that is where the monster is, like around the corner

39:56

because it's a whole new thread that

39:58

we have to look into and deal

40:00

with. So it's crazy how ameshed. You guys are just wholly ameshed in this

40:02

case now. It's almost like you're part of it

40:04

because the podcast got

40:06

so huge,

40:08

so quickly. and people

40:10

are turning to you to hear about this

40:12

story and to hear the truth about everything

40:14

that's going on. So that's that's a big

40:16

responsibility. And then, yeah,

40:18

you get these text messages of rumors, and you're the ones who have to

40:19

sort through. Yeah. Because you're part of

40:22

it now. Yeah. Mandy, so I fully

40:24

believe that Mandy's reporting over the

40:26

summer of twenty twenty

40:28

one. Had she not done

40:30

that work for the organization she

40:32

was working for? I don't think

40:33

we would be where we are

40:36

in terms of

40:36

the investigations because she was holding

40:39

them accountable singularly in some

40:41

ways, enforcing the issues. So

40:43

she was forcing them not to be able to look away. And I

40:45

think that that's what was so

40:48

brave, especially given, like, what we

40:49

knew behind the scenes because we can

40:52

only report what we can verify. So there's, you there's

40:54

only

40:54

a lit a little bit comparatively

40:56

to what we know. So

41:00

it Yeah. It was I mean, without that reporting that she

41:02

did, I honestly don't

41:04

think any of this would

41:05

have gone this

41:07

way. Yeah. Was it Alex Murdoch's

41:10

lawyer? When he started

41:12

talking about Mandy, when he

41:14

was giving his statements and stuff? Or

41:16

you're just like, oh my god. It's

41:18

like through the looking glass

41:20

where she's reporting,

41:20

she's telling the story, trying

41:22

to be like, you know, all

41:25

her allegedly's and everything is everything is in line you're doing it totally

41:27

by the book. And this man

41:29

is basically like, this one's over

41:31

here, whatever sex

41:34

this thing that he said to you, where it suddenly just like, oh,

41:36

she this is actually working. Like,

41:38

these people don't want her

41:42

doing this. which means something really huge

41:44

is here. Yeah. Was that the

41:46

feeling you got? Yeah. Well, first of

41:48

all, that story is so

41:50

weird because I

41:53

mean, last and and circling back to, like, just how crazy things were, I

41:55

would not recommend anybody to start

41:57

a podcast

41:58

there aren't a podcast

41:59

while Well, actually, I mean,

42:02

it all worked out, but

42:04

covering breaking news and then

42:06

having to do a podcast at the

42:08

end, oh my gosh, it was so hard.

42:10

And I there was a point after Alex was

42:12

shot and things

42:13

just realized lawsuits were

42:15

being filed and every like,

42:17

every day was just absolutely insane. And

42:19

I was not getting any sleep either at that time. I bet.

42:21

And I really did I

42:24

remember the

42:26

first night that Alex went to jail, like, finally, like, slept

42:28

okay for the first time in a

42:30

really like but

42:33

the the

42:33

that whole period of time was

42:36

just really

42:37

horrible for my mental health,

42:39

my well-being, all of that. And

42:41

it was also dealing with, like,

42:43

just all these awful people. So I mean that hated my boys.

42:46

Damn. I'm not Yeah. It was

42:48

so stupid, but it was just a

42:50

really, like, I

42:52

looked back on that time in my life that it should have been exciting. I mean,

42:54

not it was just very dark. And

42:58

my fiancee and I

42:59

drove to the courthouse

43:02

in Hampton that day

43:03

to cover that volunteering, and that was for

43:06

Alex's suicide or shooting

43:08

incident thing.

43:10

And there was just a

43:12

sea of reporters outside, and it

43:14

just looked like a circus. And my stomach

43:16

just dropped. And I could not

43:19

you know,

43:20

just that feeling and they say, like, listen to your

43:22

body, listen to your instinct. I was like, I I

43:24

can't go in. I I just

43:25

need to go home And

43:27

I

43:27

remember texting Liz that day and she was like, you're not even

43:30

sounding like yourself. Are you okay? Like --

43:32

Yeah. -- I I was just not okay at

43:34

that point. And

43:36

then I go and I'm like, okay. Whatever. The

43:38

bond here is gonna be covered online.

43:39

I can cover it. It doesn't

43:41

really matter

43:42

if I'm there at the end of the

43:44

day.

43:44

And then

43:46

as I'm watching and I'm getting all these text messages,

43:48

like, are you seeing what Dick Harputely and

43:50

said about you? Oh my god. Oh my god. Blah

43:52

blah blah blah blah. And that was a bit

43:54

First of all, I was like, that

43:55

was the first moment and then I

43:56

was like, okay, wow. The target is on

43:58

my back. Like, they're

43:59

noticing me. I didn't know before

44:02

that point.

44:04

Ultimately,

44:04

I think he was saying that he considered being a threat there even though he

44:06

was saying it

44:07

was a sexist bullshit. Ultimately,

44:11

he didn't care about those other reporters. He cared about me

44:13

being there because I was the only man,

44:15

right, holding him and this little

44:18

circle of buddies

44:20

accountable. And And

44:21

the second thing was just like, I'm

44:23

so

44:23

glad I wasn't there because I don't know what I would

44:26

have done. The the worst part of that

44:28

was listening to all of those

44:30

reporters laughing on his jokes about me.

44:32

Yes. But I'm so glad I wasn't there

44:34

because I don't know what I would have done. You

44:36

know? Like Right. And it's just

44:38

one of those things where it's like, if you have that

44:40

feeling, just follow it.

44:42

God. Absolutely. And that was a

44:44

big turning point of like, I need to take care of my

44:46

mental health and take a

44:47

take a little bit of a step back from these things,

44:49

you know. But the

44:51

unprofessionalism from them

44:53

this whole time It was

44:55

a betrayal. Yeah. Let's just call it what it was

44:57

because it's a betrayal. Like, you're

45:00

you are breaking you were making their jobs easier.

45:02

There was an onslaught of national media here

45:05

All of them wanted to pick Mandy's brain. All of them

45:07

just wanted to catch a little coffee. Let me

45:09

pick the brain. What they wanted was her

45:11

notes and her sources and

45:13

her So she's like fending those off at the time. But

45:15

for local media in particular to have left,

45:17

it sounds so minor probably to people not

45:20

in it, but it it

45:22

was

45:22

so indicative

45:22

of the problem because it's like,

45:24

you guys are the ones that

45:26

were supposed to be generous.

45:28

Where were you? Like, in

45:30

the men in the room? Yeah.

45:32

These old white men in the

45:34

room that you're like, you are jumping

45:37

it up just so that you can get a, you know, a

45:39

scoop from this guy later. And it's just it

45:42

just showed you, like, you guys

45:44

were the, you know, the guys in charge

45:46

for a long time.

45:48

And now you have a

45:50

girl who's cut on the

45:52

scene and she's saying the

45:54

things that you

45:55

guys whitewash. And at that

45:57

point, we forget

45:58

the, like, the the week before it. It was

45:59

just pure utter chaos

46:02

after the moment he

46:05

got shot because the lawyers were pushing out this narrative to all

46:07

the media that laughed at me with Dick

46:10

Harputin, the

46:13

somebody's after Alex Murdoch, and we're

46:15

gonna they're gonna have a suspect for

46:17

us soon, a

46:20

guy. they had this whole narrative that there was a guy in a truck that was following him

46:22

and then -- Oh my god. -- he stopped the

46:24

changes tire and that's how we got

46:27

shot. And PR company, by the way. Let's not forget that

46:30

there. And a PR company was behind.

46:32

Yeah. And, like and

46:34

I was the only one to be like,

46:37

bullshit. In everyone in Hampton County, everyone

46:39

was like, first of all, that guy never changes

46:41

his own tires. Oh

46:44

my god.

46:46

So let's start there. Yeah. The row that they were on, they were he was

46:48

saying it was on his way to Charleston, and

46:50

it wasn't on the way to like, the

46:52

story was so bad, and it was

46:54

just a

46:56

pure example of how the media was not just doing their jobs

46:58

and they just wanted to

47:00

have their little quotes and make their little

47:02

stories and their big headlines and

47:06

get lots the clicks because the story was a click mine --

47:08

Yeah. -- it never mattered either.

47:10

So the verdicts, like, are

47:12

so

47:12

used to just being able to say what

47:14

happens. I can just say that,

47:16

you know, the sky is green and people would be

47:18

like, see it too. Right. And we don't have to

47:20

look into it more. So for him to say all

47:22

those things and no one to fact

47:24

check him, they were not used to being fact

47:27

checked by law enforcement or clearly

47:29

the

47:30

media. Remember

47:31

the days before streaming when you'd come up from high

47:33

school and it was only a few hours until a TV show

47:35

that everyone was watching would come on. And then your

47:38

friends were

47:40

on the way over for the watch party and the smell popcorn filled the room.

47:42

Stay with me. Well, in nineteen ninety

47:45

nine, that show was Buffie the

47:47

vampire slayer. That's right. And

47:49

then the new podcast from Wandery, their re watcher, buffy

47:51

the vampire slayer. They're taking it back to

47:54

nineteen ninety nine, so get out your knee

47:56

high boots, put your chokers on, and

47:58

paste that

47:59

poster in Angel, AKA David Borian is on the

48:02

wall. It's time to enter the

48:04

buffy verse. Join morbid

48:06

hosts,

48:06

Ash and

48:08

Elena, as they slay their way

48:10

through buffy's drama, action, and romance

48:12

episode

48:12

by episode. Listen to

48:14

the Re watcher, Buffalo The Vampire Slayer

48:16

on Amazon News to Apple Podcasts or wherever you're

48:19

listening right now. You can also listen

48:21

early on Amazon music or early in

48:23

ad free by subscribing to wonder

48:25

plus in Apple podcasts, or on the wonder

48:27

app. Goodbye. I'm Felicia

48:30

Day, and I'm

48:30

the host of the official The Lord's of Rings

48:32

of Rings of Power podcast. In

48:35

every episode, I'm going backstage for

48:37

an all access look at what it took

48:39

to bring Middle Earth to life. I'll even

48:42

have the first full breakdown

48:44

of credible season finale with the series

48:46

showrunners, JD Pain, and Patrick

48:48

McKay. I will be sharing juicy behind

48:50

the scenes stories and

48:52

processing all

48:52

the holy crap moments

48:53

with the members of the

48:55

casting crew. Numenor has got to be the

48:57

most amazing thing ever, and we wanted it

48:59

to just be the greatest kingdom of men that

49:01

ever existed. The elves are

49:04

arrogant and

49:05

vain. They're not beyond

49:07

being corrupted. Can can I just say

49:09

watching Owen after eat in his full

49:12

regalia is the most

49:14

hilarious thing? So if you wanna deep

49:16

dive into every episode, watch the rings of power on Prime Video and listen

49:18

to all eight episodes of the official, the

49:20

Lord of the Rings, the Rings of Power podcast.

49:24

for free on Amazon

49:26

Music. Download the Amazon Music app now.

49:29

just

49:31

remember seeing and and correct me if I'm wrong, but

49:33

I believe it was an article in the guardian. Was

49:35

it the guardian

49:36

-- Yep. -- where when it

49:38

went so this is starts

49:40

as

49:40

local news and slowly you're watching it spread into

49:43

a national news story of this

49:45

happened. Now these his

49:47

wife and son are dead. Now he,

49:50

someone, quote unquote, tried

49:52

to kill him or shoot him

49:54

which,

49:55

you know, is what you guys are talking about. That's bullshit.

49:57

And then

49:58

basically, this is how I

49:59

found out about

50:02

it was this article in the Guardian that was basically

50:04

like, here's what's going on, and here's

50:06

the one person actually

50:08

chasing down

50:10

what's happening. I felt like that

50:12

was such a great that article

50:14

really was about how alone you

50:16

were and how you basically were holding

50:18

up this

50:20

journalistic ethic to go, we need to figure out what this is

50:22

because this has gone up, like,

50:24

enough people have died, enough people have

50:26

been ripped off, like, this has to

50:30

change. And suddenly, you're getting global I mean,

50:32

I wouldn't say you're getting the coverage, but, like,

50:34

the story is being told accurately to how

50:37

you're seeing as opposed to the good old

50:39

boy journalists that are laughing along with Dick

50:42

Harpoonian. I mean, that did that feel

50:44

good because I

50:46

was thrilled. when I read I

50:48

was like, retweet. Everybody has to read this. Oh my god. What is happening?

50:50

Yeah. Drew Lawrence is

50:53

one of my favorite reporters and he's actually a friend of

50:55

mine now and he was the one who wrote that story

50:58

and it was just so validating when

51:00

it came out because it was just like a bro

51:02

like, Thank you. And from the

51:04

he he approached his conversations with

51:06

me totally different than, like, look,

51:08

I don't wanna I'm I'm

51:10

not beating with you in any way. I'm not

51:13

trying to retell the story that you've

51:15

obviously covered -- Right. -- for years

51:17

now. But I wanna tell it about how

51:19

it's been for you

51:20

and the the journey for you and what's going

51:22

on

51:22

with journalism. And I was like,

51:24

oh, yeah. Let's do that. And

51:26

I also feel like I got very

51:29

I was very misunderstood in those months

51:32

last fall from people

51:34

thinking

51:34

that, like, didn't want other

51:36

media covering the story. I don't care

51:38

about, like, they could cover it.

51:40

Please come investigate this stuff.

51:43

It's very hard. Just do it accurately. Yeah. Like, just

51:45

tell the actual story. Tell the actual

51:48

story. If you didn't

51:50

uncover it,

51:52

give credit to the reporter who did uncover it. Like, it's

51:54

not that hard. And don't

51:56

treat

51:56

the victims like dirt. I was so sick

51:58

of getting phone calls last

51:59

summer less

52:00

of, like, from victims being, like, this

52:03

reporter's in

52:03

my yard right now, and they won't leave. Oh

52:05

my god. And these people were not used to

52:08

anything like that. Like, the

52:10

story just floated in a

52:12

way that nobody ever predicted and all of these people were left

52:14

very extremely hurt by it.

52:18

and the media was making it worse for the most part. Yeah.

52:20

Right? A perfect example of that and

52:22

the reason why I really started my podcast

52:25

I had wanted

52:25

to start a podcast for years and told Lewis

52:28

about it. We were we were always,

52:29

like, had a pipe dream about a boat

52:31

crash podcast because we thought, like, there was

52:33

plenty, it was put the Steven Smith case. And there was one of

52:35

those things, like, one of these days will do it, and

52:38

you just don't get to do it. But

52:39

I remember listening to

52:42

a national some sort

52:44

of talking head for

52:46

the news, talking about this

52:48

case after the murders, and they were

52:50

saying, like, they obviously

52:52

had just googled the case.

52:53

And what they

52:54

could find was that there was a

52:56

boat crash and a girl died in

52:58

the last couple years, but their conclusion was,

53:01

like, That means it's probably one of the victims

53:03

from the boat crash. And, like,

53:05

have they looked at the boyfriend of Mallory

53:07

Beach? I bet he wants revenge, and

53:09

they were just really, revictimizing all these people

53:11

who had gone and these are kids, like, they were

53:13

nineteen twenty when this happened,

53:16

and now

53:18

they're, like, twenty two twenty three. And Liz

53:19

and I were just like, we didn't know for sure

53:21

who it was at the time, but we knew it wasn't

53:23

the kids in the

53:26

boat crash. Like Yeah. And

53:28

we also knew the basic fact that, like, people in Hampton County

53:30

are utterly terrified of

53:33

the Maddox. Mhmm. and they're not going on their

53:35

property and shooting Maggie and Paul. Right. That is the

53:38

riskiest murder -- Yeah. -- in the state of South

53:40

Carolina. Right?

53:42

So the the narrative was just getting so wrong.

53:44

And like Liz said, there was a PR company.

53:46

We can't forget that. But we don't know

53:48

what they were doing behind the scenes to

53:52

push this creative. Mhmm. So I was

53:54

really motivated just to just like,

53:56

here's what's really going on with this

53:58

family. And that's why it sucked that

53:59

you were in

54:02

Puerto Rico because -- Right. -- you know, you get the call and, like, just like

54:04

with the boat crash, but even to a greater

54:06

extent now, you just know, like,

54:08

the fix is gonna be in. We have a small

54:10

window of time right now

54:12

for somebody to say

54:13

what's actually happening because

54:15

if there's going to be a cover

54:16

up, it's going to be starting now.

54:18

So I texted her,

54:21

called her, and I, you know,

54:23

obviously, it was, like, late at night and I

54:25

didn't expect it, but I couldn't go

54:27

to the scene because I worked for the

54:29

sheriff's office and that would have been Mhmm. But I contacted her boss

54:31

at the time and was just

54:33

like, you know, here's

54:36

this information. he published it. As

54:38

soon as he published it, I texted it to a

54:40

former reporter that we worked

54:42

with because it didn't I just wanted it out

54:44

there at that time. But what

54:46

bothered me is just, like, so when Mandy got back,

54:48

like, finally, because it's, like, if you don't

54:50

have a guardian of the truth in keeping

54:52

people honest, like somebody

54:54

like Mandy, it's just all gonna be the same again and, you know,

54:56

whatever they get into, they'll get away with. And

54:58

so if they're if Alec did

55:00

it, if some he hired somebody

55:02

to do it if it was something related to the med

55:04

medics, like, it needed to be done

55:06

now. Yeah. And media needed to

55:08

understand that story from a

55:10

corruption standpoint. not

55:11

a oh, somebody got murdered or

55:13

two people got murdered. It's and it's

55:15

tragic. Not to basically make Alec

55:18

the victim, which arguably,

55:20

and from my very ignorant point of view,

55:22

might have been the reason those

55:24

murders happened in the first place since since

55:26

everything else was averaging down, and

55:29

everything was kinda getting exposed,

55:32

that would be a way to

55:34

report it that would absolutely

55:36

benefit him. So, I mean, not I have no idea what really

55:38

happened or why, but that

55:40

idea where it's like, yeah, you have to get somebody in

55:42

there going. No. No. No. We have

55:44

to keep everything in

55:46

context, and the context is

55:48

not good for this family.

55:50

Mhmm. Yeah. And the context isn't good

55:52

for a lot of law enforcement.

55:54

I mean, still at this point, we don't know

55:56

why it

55:56

took so long to

55:59

arrest Alex.

55:59

And that's another thing we

56:01

just go back to and

56:04

like, what what they have done if we weren't there. Yeah.

56:06

Yeah. But the point of it

56:08

was the point of that story

56:10

and podcast

56:12

when we put it out was that,

56:14

look, we're

56:15

not really sure

56:16

if law enforcement is gonna do

56:18

anything this case. We think

56:20

that they are and we we do have

56:22

good sources that

56:23

are saying we're doing everything that we

56:25

can. Trust me blah

56:27

blah But there was

56:28

evidence that we knew they could

56:30

have arrested him with a long time

56:32

ago and we're just not sure.

56:35

there's just so many accusations

56:37

of corruption that we had to put everything

56:39

out there to keep the pressure on.

56:41

Yeah. And it it worked. Yeah.

56:43

I mean, like, it it really worked.

56:45

You guys did an

56:47

unbelievable job, and you did it in

56:49

the way. It's like, not that I

56:51

know the difference, but, like, old school journalism

56:53

where you're just, like, we're going to do

56:55

the thing. We're just exposing this

56:57

to the light to

56:58

the truth to the public. So it's like, you're just reporting

57:00

what happened. You're not saying anything. It's

57:02

not you're not doing clickbait

57:06

stuff. you're basically like, this has to go on record and and

57:08

it has to go on record the official way

57:10

to say, here's the real story. Don't

57:14

let anyone tell you differently. Like, we're on the ground, all the

57:16

fact checking and the stuff as opposed

57:18

to, here's an unbelievable

57:21

story about this weird double murder. Who what could have happened? Who

57:23

really knows? Where you're just like, no. Really, this

57:26

is important to say, what

57:28

did happen? We need to

57:30

find out someone needs to look into

57:32

this. That's what was so thrilling to me as, like, the as a

57:34

listener, this is, like,

57:37

two women holding up the lantern alone.

57:40

And and in the face of Old

57:42

Boys Club, like,

57:44

centuries

57:44

and series of of corruption,

57:46

the deepest corruption, where the kind

57:48

that people say there's nothing you can do. Give

57:50

up -- Yeah. -- and you guys

57:52

didn't. You fought it.

57:54

It's

57:55

pretty amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And that was something we were

57:57

talking about earlier. Liz has always said

57:59

from the beginning,

58:00

like,

58:02

a big

58:03

thing that really took down this dynasty is

58:05

just technology and social

58:08

media and That's

58:10

something the good old boys

58:12

are very

58:13

bad at and and don't

58:15

understand and they can't control

58:18

it. Yes. in

58:19

a way and so we were we were, like,

58:21

we don't even know what

58:24

grandpa grandpa buster and all of

58:26

them what they did because the Internet

58:28

didn't exist. Yeah. Who knows?

58:30

And it was way easier to get away with

58:32

stuff back then than

58:34

it is now even though for

58:36

powerful people, it's still way too easy

58:38

in my opinion. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, I

58:40

think a really important question would be

58:42

who's gonna play you guys in the Made for

58:44

TV movie about

58:46

this podcast. Dream

58:48

dream dream role. Like, dream person. Who

58:50

would it be? I'm not kidding. Karen,

58:54

actually, Okay.

58:54

We're all

58:57

sisters. So I mean, I'm Irish

59:00

American too. We got the same Oh,

59:02

my got this as a humor. I

59:04

think -- Yeah. -- I'm all about it. Liz,

59:06

I think I could really do justice

59:10

because, like, But I listen and you do your little

59:12

jokes. Like, you might see that you're reporting, but you're

59:14

also, like, then can I just say, like,

59:17

I you coming into the

59:19

podcast too, because I there were there were points

59:21

where I was worried about Mandy. Whereas, it's like,

59:23

this is a person alone doing

59:25

this thing, doing this

59:28

reporting, whatever. and you coming in was really

59:30

a lovely beautiful like the

59:32

partnership working and supporting

59:34

each other. you could just kind

59:36

of feel how nice that was for you,

59:38

Mandy, that you had

59:40

another person to look across and go

59:42

holy fuck too, which makes all the

59:44

difference. Right? Yeah. As you guys

59:46

know, I mean, having a a partner, you

59:48

know, absolutely trust and who

59:50

understands and who you don't have

59:52

to explain all of the

59:54

background and all the other shit that's

59:56

involved because they've been in this.

59:58

It's

59:59

yet

59:59

monumental and so changing and just like a huge

1:00:02

weight was lifted from my shoulders when

1:00:03

Liz

1:00:04

was able to come on and then

1:00:06

she brought humor and light

1:00:10

and I mean, I I'm not gonna lie. There's a lot of weeks

1:00:12

where I'm like, I don't know what we're gonna talk about

1:00:14

next week because I don't know what's gonna happen.

1:00:16

And Liz is always like, we got

1:00:18

this or And

1:00:20

we do have a good thing with our partnership of,

1:00:22

like, one of us is down. The other one goes up. Yeah. We're

1:00:25

kinda like a seesaw. Yeah.

1:00:28

And it works really well. Otherwise, I would have just stayed I

1:00:30

mean, I I definitely would have quit at this

1:00:32

point. Yeah. But Wow. because it's just

1:00:35

it's just it's too hard. And I think people need to realize that. Like,

1:00:37

nobody needs to do this stuff.

1:00:40

No. It's way too hard. And

1:00:42

we all just need to support each

1:00:44

other and keep going,

1:00:46

you know, and do everything that we can to

1:00:48

keep going and take care of ourselves. Especially

1:00:50

if you're fighting the old boys club,

1:00:52

those old crusty reporters laughing at you wherever where it's

1:00:54

like that's fine. Now that you know

1:00:56

that there's like millions of true

1:00:58

crime fans who were like so

1:01:01

behind you and so thrilled about

1:01:03

the work that both of you are

1:01:05

doing and, like, how you powered through.

1:01:07

Like, this is how you powered through

1:01:09

awful stages of life, you just keep

1:01:12

going and you figure out who your

1:01:14

team is and how you get the

1:01:16

support you need and how you can take care of

1:01:18

yourself and like, step out so

1:01:20

someone else can step in. But I don't

1:01:22

know if you realize how

1:01:24

inspirational that looks from the

1:01:26

outside. As as hard as it is

1:01:28

for you, you're modeling

1:01:30

such beautiful behavior,

1:01:32

not just as journalist, but like as a

1:01:34

team of women. I'm trying not to cry. Yeah.

1:01:36

Me too. I want you to cry. Correct.

1:01:40

Correct. Correct. We love

1:01:42

it. It's true though. You

1:01:44

get us. sweet. Thank you. That's so sweet. Which is why it's

1:01:46

so annoying that people could or,

1:01:48

like, change your voice. It's like, that's not what

1:01:50

it's about. Change your voice is

1:01:52

a trick. change your voice

1:01:54

as a distraction so that you stop

1:01:56

doing what you are doing. It's

1:01:58

bullshit. Like, we gotta we

1:01:59

gotta be more gentsy about

1:02:02

that shit. those kids would just be like, what? Fuck

1:02:04

off. Like, who cares? Chink the

1:02:06

chink your voice people don't know what the

1:02:08

fuck they're

1:02:10

talking about. Yeah. It's so weird that you say that because I'm

1:02:12

Genx and Mandy is obviously a

1:02:14

millennial. That's that's like oh my

1:02:16

god. That's it it definitely

1:02:18

is. And we like, when Mandy was going through

1:02:20

that and she was like, should I address

1:02:21

this? Like, it's so dumb. Right? You're like

1:02:24

vocal frat. Why aren't we talking about

1:02:26

this?

1:02:26

But it

1:02:26

was, like, my instinct as somebody older was, like,

1:02:29

no. Just ignore ignore the haters. But Nancy was,

1:02:31

like, look, if I'm gonna be

1:02:33

holding people accountable, for

1:02:36

their behavior here in this story, like in the context of the

1:02:38

story, I need to hold other people accountable

1:02:40

to because their behavior matters as

1:02:43

well. how you treat people matters. And so

1:02:45

she by doing that, like, at first, I

1:02:47

was like, oh, maybe you shouldn't mention

1:02:50

it, but then

1:02:51

I understood it. And, like, it was so brave

1:02:53

of her to do that, and it has changed

1:02:55

my complete philosophy on how

1:02:57

how

1:02:57

to address people who

1:02:59

hey, I to a thing

1:03:00

I would do. Like, if I got a hate mail at work, I

1:03:02

would send an email back and be like, can't win them

1:03:04

all,

1:03:04

Jim. And I always felt like

1:03:08

superior for that because I was like, how

1:03:10

can I sleep? You know? But

1:03:12

gimandy is saying honestly and,

1:03:14

like, authentically, you are hurting

1:03:16

somebody when you say this and it's not just

1:03:18

like you are you are

1:03:20

needlessly putting something out there that doesn't need

1:03:22

to be put out there and I'm gonna call

1:03:24

you out it. And that has been one the lessons think learned

1:03:26

in all of this -- Mhmm. -- especially as

1:03:28

we've dealt with so many

1:03:30

very unsavory characters in

1:03:31

all of this. It's it's

1:03:33

that lesson right there that I think it's so important. Yeah. A lot

1:03:36

of people say although, like, just ignore it,

1:03:38

ignore it, ignore it, and

1:03:40

it's, like, ignoring it a a lot of times, yes. Ignoring

1:03:42

it is the answer because nobody

1:03:44

wants to waste it. Is that your guys' philosophy

1:03:46

just not mine? I'm sure you can hate

1:03:48

on mine. I've

1:03:50

learned in learning, but it there is it is hard and it and it

1:03:53

does sometimes feel like I wanna have a conversation.

1:03:55

I wanna respond. I wanna stand

1:03:57

up for myself. Yeah.

1:03:59

then there also is the part of it. It's like, well, what if it what if they're

1:04:02

right and what if, you know and

1:04:04

that's where you

1:04:04

can't respond. Yeah. And And

1:04:07

I'm sure no matter how successful you get, you're

1:04:09

always gonna get that little voice in your head

1:04:11

saying, well, what if -- Yeah. -- what if my

1:04:13

voice is annoying? Yeah. Am I?

1:04:16

Am I? What if my show does

1:04:18

suck? It's almost like, take

1:04:20

it in, do what you want, but

1:04:22

it's like, you can't really ignore it classically

1:04:24

because ignoring it makes it seem like you can

1:04:26

have it not be in your head

1:04:27

at all. Once you read one

1:04:29

horrible thing, it's stays there.

1:04:31

And that's my thing is, I get

1:04:34

that it's impossible to ignore.

1:04:36

Just don't let it get you

1:04:38

off course. don't actually let it make you change

1:04:40

anything or redirect your plan,

1:04:42

which you guys didn't. Like, you got to

1:04:44

express the strength of

1:04:46

vulnerability by

1:04:48

going yeah, that really sucks. You can stop now. But you it

1:04:50

didn't make you stop reporting. It didn't make

1:04:52

you stop going out and being the person

1:04:54

that you are. That's the important is,

1:04:58

like, you stayed on track, and it wasn't like, oh, now we're

1:05:00

gonna now I'm gonna go to a vocal coach and

1:05:02

I won't be recording this podcast until I get

1:05:04

my voice right? Like, absolutely not.

1:05:07

because that's how you basically make

1:05:10

women shut up is pointing

1:05:12

out that they're not doing it. Right? Where

1:05:14

it's like, we don't need women to shut up these days. need

1:05:16

women to stand up, and you

1:05:18

did. Well, and like women, like

1:05:20

women in television, it's like

1:05:24

when podcasting it's do we have the appropriate

1:05:28

whatever? I don't even know what the opposite of

1:05:30

the bubble. friends. But

1:05:32

feminine, I don't know. I mean, do

1:05:34

we sound like a guy or do we sound like a male

1:05:36

reporter? I think is essentially what it is. Or do we

1:05:38

sound like a a bro? Do we

1:05:40

sound like what we're, quote, supposed to sound like, which is so stupid because

1:05:42

podcasting is so new that there is

1:05:44

no what it's supposed to sound like.

1:05:45

What but boys can

1:05:46

men can sound like whatever. They

1:05:50

they're they're it's just their voice and content. And but,

1:05:52

like,

1:05:52

over I I have a lot of friends

1:05:55

who've been TV reporters over the years,

1:05:57

and TV reporters

1:05:58

go through so much

1:05:59

shit about what they look for.

1:06:02

Yeah. And those girls do not get

1:06:04

paid nearly

1:06:06

enough. Very And and

1:06:08

their bosses also, like, criticized

1:06:10

them for how they look in

1:06:12

a way that they do not criticize

1:06:14

mail. So on TV, they have to worry

1:06:17

about so many extra things besides the

1:06:19

content, and that's just so and,

1:06:22

again, people give me a lot of shit

1:06:24

online for

1:06:24

Saint when I say,

1:06:26

like, this is

1:06:26

a sexist thing. Let's just call

1:06:28

it what it is.

1:06:29

Like, I don't have statistics on this, but I know

1:06:31

male reporters do not go fast.

1:06:34

Absolutely

1:06:34

not. You don't need statistics.

1:06:36

You just have, like, living in the world.

1:06:39

I don't know. Yeah. It's what's

1:06:41

outside -- Yeah. -- entirely.

1:06:43

Well, what's next for you

1:06:45

guys? Anything non Murdoch? related

1:06:47

that you're excited about these days?

1:06:49

We are

1:06:50

trying I we're, like,

1:06:53

silent. Yeah. You're, like,

1:06:55

Absolutely

1:06:55

not. Mandy, you're

1:06:57

getting married. Oh. I'm getting

1:06:59

married next month. Sounds exciting. So this whole

1:07:01

time you've been planning a wedding.

1:07:04

That's insane. Yeah. Yeah. I

1:07:06

got engaged a week before the

1:07:08

double homicide. Mhmm. She was celebrating

1:07:10

her engagement. when and how I was

1:07:12

yeah. I was in Puerto Rico and celebrating

1:07:14

my birthday and then my engagement

1:07:16

and new beginnings

1:07:19

and Yeah.

1:07:21

But we've figured out how to plan a wedding during all

1:07:23

of this chaos for -- Wow. --

1:07:25

and that's been fun. But,

1:07:29

yeah, I mean, we are now trying to focus

1:07:32

on, I think, what we've realized is that our

1:07:34

approach to journalism does work.

1:07:36

And we're listen,

1:07:38

I boost spent a very long time in the newspaper industry just

1:07:40

getting trampled by old white men

1:07:42

who are making very bad

1:07:44

decisions. And for

1:07:47

a lot of money for a lot more money than we were

1:07:49

making. Of course. And, yeah,

1:07:51

we want to empower

1:07:53

other journalists to be doing the same things that we are

1:07:55

doing. Like, I am not convinced I I know that

1:07:58

there's not gonna be a a lot

1:07:59

of

1:08:00

murder docs stories to

1:08:02

repeat. You know, I hope not. I don't wanna find

1:08:05

another monster like this ever

1:08:07

again. Yeah. However,

1:08:10

The podcasting investigative journalism model

1:08:13

really does work. It finances

1:08:15

journalism. Podcasting advertising works. a

1:08:19

lot of people don't realize that in a way

1:08:21

that,

1:08:21

I was always told

1:08:23

since coming

1:08:24

on a journalism school, there's no future

1:08:26

in journalism. You're never gonna make money in

1:08:28

it. it's just gonna

1:08:30

suck forever. That's gotta sound great and exciting to hear. Enjoy your student loans.

1:08:36

Yeah. And my parents for all the

1:08:38

time, like, are you sure? Why are you doing this? And every even

1:08:41

like my counselors

1:08:44

in journalism school. We're like, are

1:08:46

you sure it was? Like, it was it's just been a very, very uncertain, terrible industry

1:08:48

to be in. And I mean, if we wanna talk

1:08:50

about Wait. Wait. because that's what we were

1:08:54

top that it's an uncertain industry to be in. But what's uncertain

1:08:56

and this is what Mandy and I figured out

1:08:58

when we were working at McClatchy is

1:09:01

the profit model for the people at the top

1:09:03

Mhmm. So you get sold, people that are doing the work of

1:09:05

the content creators or whatever we wanna call

1:09:08

them. We're

1:09:08

the ones that are being told, like, I don't know

1:09:10

about this. You might be laid off next week.

1:09:13

And it's like, why? Because you get a thirty five thousand dollar a month

1:09:15

stipend just for your house rental. On top of

1:09:17

your two million dollars salary, remember

1:09:20

that one? Yeah.

1:09:23

That was a real thing. Mhmm. Yeah. You're

1:09:25

having layoffs in our newsroom while

1:09:28

we found out that our CEO

1:09:30

was making over two million dollars a

1:09:32

year less a thirty thousand dollar

1:09:34

thirty five thousand dollar housing stipend a month, and our reporters

1:09:37

were making thirty five thousand

1:09:39

dollars a year.

1:09:42

who we're

1:09:42

getting that off. But I think people conflate

1:09:45

the idea that journalism, there's no

1:09:47

future in journalism with there's no

1:09:49

future for that profit model because it's

1:09:51

too many people doing too little

1:09:53

for too much money. But

1:09:55

journalism itself is a means of communication. It's storytelling. It's

1:09:58

watchdog. It's

1:09:59

accountability. Like, that

1:10:02

has always been necessary. And it's always going

1:10:04

to be necessary. And it it takes us I

1:10:07

think that's why, you know, what we're

1:10:09

thinking is that we wanna motivate other journalists

1:10:11

to do the same thing -- Yeah.

1:10:13

-- while also solving that

1:10:14

problem in different communities because,

1:10:17

you know, there's so many cases

1:10:19

that

1:10:19

just go unsolved because lack of

1:10:21

motivation, you know, incompetence is

1:10:23

obviously always a thing, but

1:10:25

corruption is always a part

1:10:27

of it, almost. always. I shouldn't say always.

1:10:29

But there is some sort of, like, whether it's noble cause corruption or just straight

1:10:31

up corruption. So that that's

1:10:34

what journalism's for to stop that.

1:10:36

Yep. And

1:10:38

you're right. It's like the evolution of

1:10:40

it instead of saying, well, this is a dead

1:10:42

thing or whatever. It's like basically this model

1:10:45

of journalists having podcasts and journalists doing, like, the long form reporting of, like,

1:10:47

no, there will be an audience

1:10:50

for this because there's a huge

1:10:52

audience for

1:10:55

true crime, for people this is the reason people

1:10:57

follow it. It isn't just gore.

1:10:59

It's about getting

1:11:02

to the truth, exposing people

1:11:04

like exposing these monsters in plain sight. All of

1:11:06

that, you know, that's what I think. That's what

1:11:08

is behind the true crime

1:11:11

trend. It's just like, we

1:11:13

wanna witness what these, you know, reporters journalists, whoever it

1:11:15

is, are talking

1:11:16

about and saying

1:11:19

no more of this. Yeah.

1:11:22

No one wants this. This is crazy. You shouldn't be a lawyer that gets to rip people off

1:11:24

and or kill them

1:11:26

if it suits you. That's

1:11:30

crazy. Like, nothing should be this corrupt.

1:11:32

It seems to be the way it's going. I

1:11:34

think what we've figured out is if you

1:11:36

remove the

1:11:37

I don't wanna say, like, white. I hate

1:11:39

to say that, but, like, if you move, like, the the

1:11:41

old school white men from the equation and journalists are left to

1:11:43

do their jobs, my

1:11:46

god. Like, how far they can

1:11:48

go without having to feed that beast. You

1:11:50

know? Yeah. Well, you guys are showing

1:11:52

it. Mhmm. Intermotivated. I mean, I feel

1:11:55

like a lot in journalism, they make you feel like

1:11:57

you took a vow of poverty. And if you

1:11:59

make, like, an

1:11:59

extra cent,

1:12:02

but, like, money

1:12:03

motivates everybody to do better. Especially if

1:12:05

you're if you're making like thirty

1:12:07

five thousand dollars a year like

1:12:09

I used to be making You're worried about all

1:12:11

these other things in your life because --

1:12:14

Yeah. -- barely making ends meet

1:12:16

and you have time

1:12:18

or energy to go invest to get

1:12:20

and take down a time to stay because

1:12:22

you're just you're just trying to get through your job. And and you

1:12:26

go to get with friends and, like, the waitress is

1:12:28

making way more money than you and you're like,

1:12:30

why am I doing this? This doesn't make

1:12:33

any sense. So, like, journalists need to be paid a

1:12:35

lot more and that's something that

1:12:38

we're going to base our

1:12:40

model off of

1:12:42

of, like, yeah, they

1:12:42

need more money. And because this is

1:12:45

as stressful as work as as lawyers

1:12:47

do. Yeah. And and

1:12:49

and a scary, you know, like,

1:12:51

so they need to be paying more and that's just something that nobody

1:12:53

ever talks about. But I will say

1:12:56

that I

1:12:59

I think that society

1:13:00

needs to be better cheering on

1:13:02

people who are making money for doing

1:13:06

the right thing. Yes. instead of just I love

1:13:07

it. Instead of shaming people for, oh my

1:13:10

god, you've made money off of some sort

1:13:14

of true crime Like, no. If somebody's

1:13:16

doing the right thing and if they're

1:13:18

empowering victims and if they're helping people

1:13:20

and if they're taking down systems

1:13:22

and they should make money and that's

1:13:24

fine. And we should encourage other people to do the

1:13:26

same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Somehow it's only honest if you're if you're suffering

1:13:28

through it. And

1:13:31

that's the trick. Well,

1:13:33

what's funny too is, like, meanwhile, the Guardian newspaper,

1:13:35

one of the best newspapers in the world is, like, check out what this

1:13:37

badass woman is doing. And it's just, like,

1:13:39

I think you guys got

1:13:43

the ultimate validation of, like, check this shit

1:13:45

out, look at what is happening, look

1:13:47

at this corruption, and

1:13:49

look at the one person fighting

1:13:51

it. at first, at the Before Liz made her enters, fighting

1:13:53

it alone. To me, that was so

1:13:55

impressive because I

1:13:58

was just like, while this newspaper is basically

1:13:59

pointing out a reporter that's just

1:14:02

kind of like taken up this

1:14:05

battle by herself. People love

1:14:06

you. People love you. You need to know it. You

1:14:08

guys are awesome. And I wanted to say thank

1:14:11

you so much for, first of all,

1:14:13

retweeting that. That was like, there's

1:14:15

a lot of fans. true a lot.

1:14:17

My sister sends it to you, so

1:14:19

my sister doesn't listen to

1:14:21

my podcast as far

1:14:23

as I know. My family never

1:14:25

does that. So they are My Both my sisters. Mine doesn't listen to mine either. My

1:14:27

sister's obsessed with you.

1:14:31

She's

1:14:31

like, oh, can you get

1:14:33

them to say, like, hi to Ashley. I was like, no, not on the business. Ashley.

1:14:36

Hi, Ashley. Yeah.

1:14:41

She doesn't listen to our podcast, but she sent that. And

1:14:43

she's like, oh my god. So it was it was a huge moment. It was

1:14:45

it really was. It was awesome.

1:14:47

Yeah. That's so good. It

1:14:50

is so you guys are such such, like, nice like,

1:14:53

these are really meaningful things because, like,

1:14:55

we are gonna replace these in our

1:14:57

heads because it's like stuff that we

1:14:59

need to hear. because it's so, like, we're in

1:15:01

our own little smaller world because -- Yes. -- and so it's hard for us

1:15:04

to know kind

1:15:07

of like how it looks from the outside other than the people that, you

1:15:09

know, sort of tap you on the shoulder and they're like,

1:15:11

you sound terrible. But so

1:15:14

it's it's really you know, thank you. Our pleasure.

1:15:16

One great thing that I've learned in all

1:15:18

of this is just how it's gonna

1:15:21

sound tacky but like empowering the

1:15:23

sisterhood. Yes. And, like, I have

1:15:25

just been the amount of super successful

1:15:27

women. Like, you have reached Weeded

1:15:29

us and helped so much and so

1:15:32

many people who have reached out

1:15:34

and said ignore the haters if

1:15:36

you need any advice blah blah blah.

1:15:38

I mean, that has been life

1:15:39

changing. Yeah. And and, like,

1:15:41

this whole

1:15:42

podcast and the story of the success is really

1:15:44

a story of women helping each

1:15:46

other. I mean, the very beginning

1:15:50

only advertiser was a

1:15:53

there there are friends now, but the ban

1:15:55

and law group who was a

1:15:57

a female attorney who

1:15:59

she is

1:15:59

the biggest fan of you guys? Yes, she is.

1:16:02

Oh, wow. Meredith is she went to your she went to your

1:16:04

show in Charleston. Like,

1:16:06

she is, like, the loveiest.

1:16:09

ban

1:16:09

in the universe of you guys. But, like, I just think back to her empowering

1:16:11

me at the very beginning and say, no, you need to keep

1:16:14

going and we'll keep funding it. I don't

1:16:16

care. Like, you

1:16:19

need to keep doing this and exposing these people because, I mean,

1:16:21

so many women that I just

1:16:23

kept this thing going and I'm

1:16:25

just so thankful for it and

1:16:28

it's just been a a

1:16:30

huge light in all this darkness. You know? Yes. Our fan base -- Yeah. -- has

1:16:32

given us everything. We talk

1:16:34

about them all the time. it's

1:16:38

so many amazing women who are all, you know, when

1:16:41

George and I used to go on the road, like,

1:16:43

we'd meet people in real life and

1:16:45

just be like, every person that we're meaning is

1:16:47

cool and like us. It's the weirdest thing. Like, there

1:16:49

is such a faction of

1:16:51

women who have come

1:16:53

together under this kind of, like,

1:16:55

quote unquote, you know, pass time or interest, but actually

1:16:57

what they're discovering is we

1:17:00

all need

1:17:00

each other and we all

1:17:02

are here for each other and

1:17:05

there's just so much, you know, it does feel corny to

1:17:07

say empowerment, but it's the best word for it because that's really what it

1:17:09

is, where it's just like

1:17:11

we need to know that

1:17:14

that connection between each other is actually changing the world. Yeah. It really is.

1:17:19

No. It's true. It's corny. I'm

1:17:21

sorry, but it's fucking true. Like So They're doing it. They're all doing

1:17:23

it with each

1:17:26

other and for each other. cool glad you guys

1:17:28

get that piece of it because that's kind

1:17:30

of the point. Yeah. That's what's

1:17:34

kind of actually the biggest joke and all of this is because when we think about,

1:17:36

like, people when they wanna, like, be derogatory,

1:17:38

they'll call us bloggers, and it's, like, funny

1:17:42

to think, like, You can you

1:17:43

can think the least about us. It's kind of funny

1:17:45

that we're the ones taken down the page. We are.

1:17:47

Yeah.

1:17:47

Yeah. It's

1:17:49

like yours.

1:17:52

I know. That's right. Amazing. Well, we

1:17:53

are honored to have you guys here such

1:17:55

-- Absolutely. -- credible journalists --

1:17:58

Yeah. -- professionals,

1:17:59

like, wow. on our show.

1:18:02

Thank you guys so so much. Yay. We're honored to be here. Oh my

1:18:04

gosh. This has been so

1:18:06

fun. Well, you guys can Find

1:18:10

the Murdoch murders podcast wherever you get

1:18:12

your podcast. New episodes are released every Wednesday.

1:18:14

Make sure you rate review, positively

1:18:18

review, and subscribe. Andy and Lucy really, really appreciate you guys

1:18:20

being here with us. Thank you so much. Yeah.

1:18:22

You guys have to come to Hilton Head.

1:18:25

We we will take

1:18:27

you shark and

1:18:28

Yeah. Great. You're one. I want

1:18:30

to see it. Low country. I've gotta

1:18:32

check it out.

1:18:35

Yeah. You really too. It'd be amazing.

1:18:37

We would like to repay you. Yeah. I

1:18:39

could think two wedding invitations or I

1:18:41

know. Right? No. I

1:18:43

know. Okay, though. Congrats.

1:18:47

Thanks again. Bye.

1:18:49

Bye. Elvis, do you

1:18:51

want a

1:18:52

cookie? This

1:18:55

has been an exactly

1:18:57

right

1:18:58

production. Our senior producers

1:19:00

are

1:19:00

Hannah Kyle Kreit and

1:19:02

Natalie Ren. Our producers all hounder

1:19:05

Keck. This episode was engineered and

1:19:07

mixed by John Bradley. Our

1:19:09

researcher is Merin McGrat Email your

1:19:11

hometowns and fucking hurrays to my

1:19:13

favorite murder at gmail dot com. Follow

1:19:15

the show on Instagram and Facebook at

1:19:17

my favorite murder and on Twitter

1:19:19

at my favorite murder.

1:19:25

Goodbye.

1:19:29

Listen, follow, leave us a review on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, or

1:19:31

wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget, you can listen

1:19:33

to new episodes one week early

1:19:35

on Amazon Music, or

1:19:39

early in ad free by subscribing to wonder plus in

1:19:41

the wonder app. You can support my favorite

1:19:43

murder by filling out a

1:19:45

survey at wonderry dot com

1:19:48

slash survey.