0:00

Well, well, well, we're back

0:02

again for episode one, and

0:05

we've got a very special episode in store

0:07

for you today as we continue getting ready

0:09

for the upcoming season with a former

0:11

long term NBA assistant and head coach,

0:13

currently the head coach of USC's men's

0:15

basketball team, Eric Musselman,

0:18

on today's episode.

0:20

Hey, look, this is the top tier show.

0:22

What wait, it's what

0:24

we do. It's what we do, got Eric?

0:27

Yes, yes, okayim, he's

0:29

here now, Okay for in a moment, but let

0:31

me introduce myself.

0:33

There.

0:34

I'm Jack O'Brien and this is

0:37

my Boosties

0:40

do Sorry, got it?

0:43

Looka don chic his Okay?

0:47

Here you gob driving spinty

0:52

fat number night Gene.

0:53

That's good.

0:54

Secure.

0:55

Let's sell picture NBA champions

0:58

over the double team.

1:04

To be honest with the time, Eric

1:10

Musselman, coach muss, welcome

1:12

to the show. Even though I am

1:15

a former Bruin at heart, I

1:17

welcome you as the USC men's basketball

1:20

coach to our illustrious show. Thank

1:22

you so much for joining us. I

1:24

mean, look, you've we were saying like before

1:27

you actually got on. I'm like, I think this guy has probably

1:29

seen the game from almost every conceivable

1:31

angle in terms of coaching and

1:34

whatnot.

1:34

So it's really great to have you here so we can pick

1:37

your brain a bit.

1:38

Now, Thanks Miles, I appreciate you and and

1:41

jack having me on today.

1:42

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely

1:45

So. We have so many questions. We don't

1:47

even know where to start. Which way should we go? Jackson's

1:50

to us since we are the hosts.

1:51

Yeah, I mean you you

1:54

recently told a story about working with Jerry

1:56

West that was

1:58

pretty interesting to us. Get to sort

2:01

of just the level of skill, the level

2:03

of intensity that I feel like you

2:06

only see behind the scenes. Can

2:08

you talk about just your experience with with

2:10

Jerry West just to give people

2:12

a little taste of like what kind of you've

2:15

seen it all? It's Blade Runner.

2:20

There's so many stories. You

2:23

know, working at Memphis,

2:25

the head coach was Mike Urtello, I was one of the

2:27

assistant coaches. Obviously, Jerry West was

2:29

the general manager. And you

2:32

know, I like in the draft room, Uh,

2:35

the most competitive person I've ever been around.

2:39

And you know there was a game where

2:43

Kenyan Martin was not blocked out

2:45

by one of our bigs and UH,

2:48

and Jerry West came in after the game.

2:50

Uh.

2:50

In the locker room, uh, and addressed

2:53

the non blockout in about is the

2:55

most intense post

2:58

game locker rooms situation

3:00

I've ever seen. Can't

3:02

really use a lot of the words that were used

3:05

in that locker room that night on not blocking

3:07

out Kenyan Martin, But

3:09

I mean there were so many stories that you know. One

3:12

of them I was I

3:14

was rebounding or working

3:16

out whatever term you want to use for

3:19

Dante Jones and the phone

3:21

rang at the Scorge table. It was like a four point

3:24

thirty in the afternoon for

3:26

seven o'clock seven oh five tip off,

3:29

and the phone kept ringing and Scott

3:31

Adebata was one of the assistants, and he

3:33

said, must go answer that phone. It's probably Jerry

3:36

West. And I had just joined the team, because

3:38

remember that was the year that for Tello, I

3:40

took over you for Huby Brown

3:42

once the season was already underway and the only

3:45

coaching changes were for Tello

3:47

and then myself. And

3:50

what had happened is Jerry was watching

3:52

the workout that I was putting Dante Jones

3:54

through and didn't agree with

3:57

some of the skilled development stuff I was working

3:59

on, some of the areas that I thought Dante needed

4:01

to improve on Wow, Jerry

4:03

just wanted him to work on what he was going

4:06

to do that night, and he used

4:08

to sit up in the owners suite and

4:11

watch. He wanted to know who the first players

4:13

on the floor were for the opposing

4:15

team and our own home team, and then he wanted

4:18

to watch the players work

4:20

out to look at their intensity level,

4:22

attention to detail, and he wanted to watch

4:25

the assistant coaches on both teams

4:27

to see who knew what they were doing. So

4:30

that's just one example of his attention to

4:33

detail and then his work

4:35

ethic. Obviously for a guy of his stature,

4:37

I mean, he's the logo and he's there, first

4:40

executive in the building at four point

4:42

thirty, already up in his little

4:44

perch waiting to see and look

4:47

down and evaluate everybody that

4:49

was on the floor, way

4:51

before even the first bus came, because obviously

4:54

in the NBA there's a first bus, second bus.

4:57

He wanted to see about those guys

4:59

that were you in a taxi cab

5:01

with maybe a lower level assistant

5:03

coach at the time. So super

5:05

super detail and about as competitive

5:08

as any human being I've ever been around.

5:10

How is his competitiveness And in the draft

5:12

room, specifically because I mean legendarily

5:15

the guy who saw Kobe before

5:18

anybody else saw Kobe. But like, how

5:20

is how is that manifesting

5:22

itself?

5:23

Yeah, I mean I think all those Kobe stories

5:25

I wasn't around obviously, then I

5:28

think they're all true.

5:29

I know that.

5:30

You know, the year that I was with him, he

5:33

went and saw Monte Ellis play before

5:35

anyone really knew who Monte Ellis was.

5:38

And he came back and said

5:41

that he thought he saw a guy that could average fifteen

5:43

and twenty points a night, and he was right. And you

5:45

know, that was evaluating a high school player,

5:48

which is you know, super

5:50

super hard to do. Yeah, and

5:53

we just were we drafted that year.

5:56

It was more in the mid first, so we were not

5:58

going to take Monte early.

6:00

But I remember him keep saying, like, hey, Monte

6:02

Ellis is going to be better than any of these guys that

6:04

were going to draft in the mid first. But

6:08

he had his eye on uh Gerald

6:11

Green uh and Danny Granger,

6:13

and both those guys went pretty

6:16

close to right before uh

6:19

we picked, and he walked out of the draft

6:21

room. He was so frustrated that

6:24

those two guys had gone directly in

6:26

front of our pick, which ended up that year being

6:28

Hakeem Warwick. But

6:30

he was so competitive and was

6:33

so fired up to get one of those two

6:35

guys, and and and and he

6:38

was he was so right on with his evaluation

6:41

of players and how they would fit in with

6:43

the current roster.

6:44

Yeah.

6:45

I get that.

6:45

I I sometimes get frustrated when I got

6:47

my eye on someone in a fantasy draft and taken,

6:50

you know, a couple of picks before me. So basically

6:53

the same thing.

6:55

We were on the clock, you know what I mean. It's

6:58

like, hey man, we're down to nine minutes.

7:00

Yeah, you got to make a pick, and it's he's

7:03

just leaving because he's so mad.

7:05

Yeah, it was between an NC State

7:07

guard that Denver took

7:09

and Warwick and and we're trying

7:11

to make this decision. And then Jerry came in about

7:14

a minute and a half before the draft and and

7:16

went with the guy that had a little bit more size.

7:19

There you go. Was it hard

7:22

to argue with him

7:25

when he when you're taking a call from

7:27

him, I'm assuming he's

7:29

being very diplomatic about telling you what you should

7:31

be doing with Dante Jones, setting

7:33

your workout and just being like taking

7:36

your feelings into consideration, But you

7:38

did you have a moment where you look down and looked at

7:40

the logo and you were like, the logo is

7:43

calling me.

7:44

Yeah, yeah, Well, the.

7:45

First encounter with with with

7:49

Jerry West was, uh, we

7:51

had made a trade in Golden State

7:54

going into my year two and we had a really

7:56

good year one with

7:58

a lot of young pieces. But Gilbert Arena

8:00

swalked after year one and

8:04

there was a shift in the organization

8:06

where they went with a lot of older vets,

8:09

probably knowing they were going to fire me, and

8:11

they were going to fire the general manager, Gary

8:14

Saint Jean and Chris Mullen was going to take

8:16

over, right, Avery Johnson,

8:18

Popeye Jones, Nick Van Exel.

8:20

We got a whole group of older

8:23

guys that were coming into

8:25

our program. But a trade

8:28

was made and Jerry called

8:30

me and said you're gonna get

8:32

fired time

8:34

in the next twelve months based on the

8:37

way the roster was moving, and he

8:39

was one thousand percent right. That was literally

8:41

the first time that I ever talked to

8:44

Jerry West.

8:46

Hey, man's up, you get fired,

8:48

coach, and let me start the clock real quick.

8:50

There's the countdown.

8:51

Yeah. She hit my phone and said, hey,

8:53

Jerry West is on. At that point, I was like

8:56

thirty seven year old coach

8:58

and I'm like, hey, just directed to Jarry Saint

9:00

Geane like I don't want to, you know, be

9:02

involved with talking to another GM, and she said

9:05

no, he insists in talking to you. It's not necessarily

9:08

about a trade proposal. And I

9:10

got on and literally he said, you're not

9:12

going to make it bad. Chemistry stuff

9:15

going on there with your with your with your additions

9:17

and so on and so forth, and he goes, you'll be

9:19

fired in twelve months. Click and wow,

9:25

he gave me three months more than

9:27

what I actually got from the from the moment of the

9:29

phone.

9:30

He was he just doing that

9:32

to talk trash or was he like, so keep us in

9:35

mind when you're looking for the next job,

9:37

or what was his purpose in telling you that

9:39

you were about to get fired, just like something

9:41

he had figured out and wanted to make sure you knew.

9:44

I'm not really sure, you know, Jerry mysterious

9:46

way. I don't. I'm not really sure what was when

9:50

he when he made the hire

9:52

of of coach for Tello. I was, you

9:54

know, I got a phone call right

9:57

after he and coach for Tello got you know,

10:00

came to an agreement, and you

10:02

know, he was the one guy that I brought on with Mike.

10:05

So I don't know if

10:07

he had been watching studying or what, but

10:10

but I you know, was fortunate enough to then

10:12

end up working for him obviously.

10:14

Yeah.

10:15

I mean, like in terms of, like I identifying

10:18

talent and stuff. I know you've seen

10:20

a lot of players come through and had your

10:22

own sort of opinions on them and what

10:25

their careers could be. I mean I've heard that, like,

10:27

you know, when you were in Orlando and ninety

10:29

eight, you you're like Dirk,

10:32

Dirk, like, what was sort

10:34

of like, you know, give me a little bit of texture

10:36

in terms of like what your experience has been, because I know

10:39

you had also seen Vince Carter or

10:41

like Deer and Fox and seen something special but sort

10:44

of described like for you, like what those experiences are

10:46

like and seeing them and kind of immediately sort of trying

10:48

to get your gears going and you're like, Okay, I

10:50

see the weaknesses here, these are the strengths in the

10:52

past. Nope, this will be good in a couple of years, or

10:55

you know what, how does that? How does that work in your mind,

10:57

especially after you know, being around so many really

10:59

gift at people in the game.

11:01

Yeah, I mean, you know, my role kind

11:03

of in Orlando was John Gabriel was a general

11:05

manager and Chuck Daly was the head coach,

11:07

and it was kind of a bridge between because I had

11:10

come from the minor leagues in the old CBA,

11:12

so when we needed to, you know, call a player

11:15

up, I was heavily involved

11:17

in that stuff. But then Coach Daily had, you

11:20

know, kind of because I was so young, I

11:22

wanted to mentor me in evaluation and

11:25

and and how to kind of go maybe

11:28

potentially in that player personnel development

11:31

role. And you

11:33

know that particular draft, like John

11:36

Gabriel sent me to watch Vince

11:38

Carter playing Daytona Beach because

11:40

he was from Daytona Beach and they played

11:42

Bethune Cookman and I

11:45

came back, and you know, my eval

11:49

was that, you know, he was always grabbing a different

11:51

body part. He looked like he was always hurt.

11:54

You know, the particular game

11:56

he got poked in the eye and went in the locker room for a

11:58

brief moment. And then I look back

12:00

all these years later and I'm like, you know, how dumb

12:03

was my worst

12:05

email ever.

12:08

You know, I don't know, he didn't have much like his

12:11

He didn't have a long career, did he he was yeah,

12:21

yeah, yeah, But that.

12:22

That same draft for

12:25

Shard Lewis had come out, and

12:28

part of my stuff was hanging out in the weight room

12:30

when the when the strength coach tested him,

12:33

and Mick Smith was our strength

12:35

coach, and I just remember how little

12:38

Rashard Lewis could bench press, you

12:41

know that when I tried to report

12:43

back to coach daily and then John

12:46

Gabriel, I just you know, continually talked about,

12:48

hey, I don't know how his body is going to withstand

12:51

uh, NBA Force and NBA and then

12:53

obviously another guy. But but I feel

12:56

super lucky that I was part

12:58

of remembering my opinion

13:01

and how that opinion was wrong because

13:04

I lacked experience, yeah,

13:06

and I lacked the vision and looking long

13:08

term. So I think it's really helped me

13:11

at the collegiate level, looking back at some of the stuff

13:13

that that I said about

13:16

players when they were coming out

13:18

of college.

13:19

Yeah right, you

13:21

weren't the only one, by the way, who had that

13:23

year's draft wrong. Michael Olowa Candy went

13:25

number one, like Bibby who

13:28

was you know, all these things made sense at the

13:30

time. Rafe LaFrentz maybe didn't make as

13:32

much sense at the time.

13:34

Uh.

13:34

And then Anton Jamison, his own

13:36

teammate, went before Vince

13:38

Carter. I still remember that draft

13:42

because my dad was an assistant

13:44

for the Boston Celtics, and it was like peak

13:46

me being like super bought into just

13:48

whatever was going on, like you know,

13:50

needling him for any extra information that

13:53

he could get me. And he was like, there's this guy Dirk

13:55

Noowitsky that like if we can, I

13:57

think he might slide to us. They were

13:59

at ten, and like

14:01

he was just like all week all we care about.

14:03

We're just like begging, like hoping that

14:06

Navitzky slides to us, and

14:09

he went one before he went number nine

14:11

and there but Paul Pierce

14:14

slid that year for no, for no good

14:16

reason, like nobody has a good explanation for

14:18

why he ended up at ten, and so they ended

14:21

up with a you know, generational player

14:23

anyways, But yeah.

14:25

The Dirk story too, for that that

14:27

I experienced, Jack was we

14:31

did not know who Dirk was. About

14:33

thirty days before the draft. We had

14:35

not his name wasn't on the draft

14:38

board. Word started circulating

14:40

about three weeks before the draft,

14:43

at least for our you know draft

14:45

war room in Orlando, and then

14:47

we tried to go over there. We tried to send different

14:49

staff members over there, and and

14:52

to my you know memory,

14:54

you know, don Nelson just had him on lockdown.

14:57

Like there was all types of stories about

14:59

how how Dirt couldn't play, and

15:02

I really truly think it was a lot of it

15:04

was fabricated by the Dallas

15:06

Mavericks and and Don Nelson. You

15:09

know, one of the stories, you know, with

15:11

the Timberwolves was in the inaugural

15:14

year, Don Nelson

15:16

had called my dad and told him how bad Tim

15:19

Hardaway's knees were. And

15:21

we drafted poor Richardson and he turned

15:24

into a really good player for us. But obviously

15:26

Tim Hardaway's a Hall of Famer and

15:29

Tim Hardaway don

15:31

Nelson Nelson who was telling

15:33

my dad he had a bad meat. So

15:36

you know, part of the game, never hear any

15:38

never believe anything you hear in the draft room.

15:41

Yeah, amazing, all

15:43

right, we should take let's take a quick break. We'll

15:46

come back. We'll get into uh, just

15:48

kind of the different eras

15:51

the conversation that started with Aunt, but that we

15:53

like to talk about about whether basketball is progressive,

15:56

Are the guys getting better? Is the game getting

15:58

better?

16:00

Be right back.

16:08

And we're back and

16:11

coach. This is something I think the first

16:13

episode we talked about this idea

16:15

that basketball kind of has this specific

16:19

shape to it at least. This is

16:21

my thinking that, like, you know, baseball,

16:23

part of the appeal is that it's been the same game

16:26

for a long enough time that like the stats are

16:28

comparable and you know, basketball

16:32

really like you can just look at games

16:34

from ten years ago, fifteen

16:37

years ago and like see a pronounced difference

16:40

in how the game is played, and

16:42

it seems like they're adding new skills,

16:45

Like you can see the players

16:48

getting better and or

16:50

at least getting good in different ways.

16:53

And so just curious to hear

16:55

your thoughts on that, Like is

16:57

that something that you kind of are keeping

17:00

in mind or that gets you excited

17:02

about the game.

17:03

Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, I'm a big baseball

17:05

fan. I think, like you know, when you look

17:07

at baseball, I mean it's it's predominantly

17:10

played in the United States

17:12

in places like Dominican Republic in

17:14

Venezuela, so it's kind of a smaller

17:18

world participation right

17:20

and what I believe has changed the NBA

17:23

is the influx of the of

17:25

the overseas coaching and

17:28

players and the fundamentally

17:30

sound players that have come over from outside

17:33

the United States. The coaching

17:35

right now, like if you're sitting

17:38

in the USC's office and you want to try to

17:40

come up with a new offensive

17:42

scheme that's a little bit outside the box,

17:44

more than likely you're turning on a FOBA

17:47

game because there's body

17:49

movement, there's player movement, there's

17:52

there's five to six seven passes

17:54

being made. There's three to four

17:57

to five options instead of one or

17:59

two options. I think

18:01

the creativity of of of

18:03

FOEBA basketball right now is as

18:06

at a way way high level. I

18:08

don't think the coaching is any necessarily

18:11

better in

18:13

the NBA than it than it has been

18:15

in the past. I look at QB Brown

18:18

and and and and your dad and

18:20

his defensive reputation, and

18:23

the Mike Bertello's and the Chucked and

18:25

the pat Rileys. I don't necessarily

18:27

think the coaching

18:30

in the NBA is any better. I actually

18:32

think the coaching has dipped in

18:34

the n b A and and has slid a

18:36

little bit compared to what it was.

18:39

You know, the guys like Cotton fitz Simmons,

18:41

those guys worked their way up and

18:44

and were unbelievable X and

18:46

O coaches and guys like Doug

18:49

mo way ahead of their time. From a passing

18:51

standpoint, George Carl, but

18:55

I do think the European coaching and European

18:57

players have changed the NBA

19:00

and made the game better than it ever

19:02

has been. And you do you

19:05

know, nobody fifteen years ago would

19:07

have thought player would have the shots

19:09

selection of Steph Curry. So

19:12

because of player development, because

19:15

of you know, the

19:18

work ethic, and guys solely focusing

19:21

on one sport. When I grew up, you

19:23

know, if you were a decent athlete, you played three sports,

19:26

right, That does not happen anymore. Players

19:29

going into their eighth grade a

19:32

year pretty much have to commit

19:34

to one sport. And that's

19:36

another reason why I think you see better

19:39

players than maybe what you've

19:41

seen in the past.

19:42

A lot of people I hear criticism

19:44

a lot is like that.

19:45

A lot of the players coming from overseas, there's

19:47

so much emphasis on like teamwork and team

19:50

play, where in the US it's become a

19:52

lot more individualized, and you

19:54

know, we're like in the business of really

19:56

churning out stars rather than getting kids

19:58

more familiar with playing like a team game.

20:01

How do you look at that or or how do you like

20:03

sort of balance the two or does do you see that

20:05

as a deficit or more just that the emphasis

20:07

is different and they sort of kind of blend

20:09

together and they sort of compliment each other once

20:11

these players are together, No.

20:13

Miles, It's really interesting when

20:16

I ask our players or recruits,

20:19

Hey, who is your favorite NBA

20:21

team? Almost

20:23

nine out of ten guys say, oh,

20:25

I don't have a team. I have a player. I

20:29

like whoever Durant's playing on, or

20:32

I like whatever team Kyrie's on. When

20:34

I grew up, I mean, you were either a

20:36

Laker fan or a Celtic fan.

20:39

I mean, for the most part, for sure, sure.

20:42

And I never almost

20:45

never hear a player say, hey,

20:47

I got this team. It's always hey, I like Miami

20:50

when Lebron was there. I like the Cavs when

20:52

Lebron's there. I like the Lakers

20:54

now because Lebron that's a whole

20:57

different mentality, you know. Then

21:00

when I grew up, for sure, So I think

21:02

that the star power has

21:04

changed. I think even when you look at women's

21:06

basketball, like the star power right

21:08

now is really

21:11

really prevalent in in the

21:13

in the women's game, in the w n b A,

21:16

and so I think it's just

21:18

a different mentality of

21:20

maybe what younger people feel

21:23

about the game and how they're attached

21:25

to two stars, you know. I mean, shoot,

21:28

when I grew up, if if if a guy played

21:30

on your favorite team and then he walked from

21:32

for free agency or got traded, you.

21:35

Didn't like to player at all, right, right, right, yeah,

21:38

right, yeah, it was wrong with you. You never forgave

21:40

him, yeah, of course, yeah,

21:42

yeah, yeah, total yah.

21:44

So one of the things that this is

21:47

in the news lately because somebody who

21:49

didn't do the one sport thing who actually

21:51

was more of a football player,

21:54

I think through high school, Anthony

21:56

Edwards and then like kind of started

21:58

coming around to basketball became one

22:00

of the best players in the in the world. Was

22:04

asked about players

22:07

in the eighties and his

22:10

quote starts out, I

22:12

didn't watch it back in the day, so I can't

22:15

speak on it, and that should have been

22:17

the end of it.

22:18

Yeah, right, but

22:22

confident guy, Yeah, he's like, what if I must

22:24

answer.

22:25

But then yeah, he kept on. They say it was

22:27

tougher back then than it is now, But

22:29

I don't think anybody had skill back then. Michael

22:32

Jordan was the only one that really had skill,

22:35

you know what I mean. So that's why when they

22:37

saw Kobe they were like, oh

22:39

my gosh, now everybody has

22:42

skill. It really feels like my six

22:44

year old trying to like having watched

22:46

three YouTube videos, like trying to come up

22:48

with an explanation of like thirty

22:51

years the best. Well, so they saw this guy

22:53

and then this other guy who also has a lot

22:55

of highlights. Everyone was like, wow, he's.

22:57

Also then that guy dunked really good

23:00

in that one clip.

23:01

Yeah.

23:01

Oh to Magic Johnson,

23:04

who I'm just hearing about now in this story

23:08

but apparently also a good player now. Magic

23:12

in response, I never respond to a guy who's

23:14

never won a championship. He didn't

23:16

win a college championship. I don't even think he

23:19

won a high school championship. So he's gotten

23:21

a little snippy, Yeah I

23:23

do. I don't know, like this

23:26

seems like it takes it too far in the other direction

23:28

of Blake. It's nobody was

23:31

good back.

23:31

Yeah, But then then Kevin Garnett on his show

23:34

of Paul Pierce, Like Kevin Garnett was like,

23:36

He's like, I don't think these kids could have even lasted

23:38

twenty years ago. Felt like, again,

23:41

I know the I'm like, I have

23:43

great love for the nineties, eighties and two

23:45

thousand, so I understand the pain to

23:47

hear someone say Michael Jordan was the only player

23:50

with skill.

23:50

But that felt like a bit of like a overreaction

23:53

to that response.

23:54

He kept saying like, you can't hit no triple step back three

23:56

like anymore now, And sure, that's one

23:59

thing we're talking about, But to say that

24:01

they couldn't last, I don't know. I think they

24:03

would adapt if that's how the game

24:05

is being played. I guess two parts. Do

24:08

you just look at that as like sort of like the hubris

24:10

and confidence of a young player like Anthony Edwards,

24:12

like obviously he's starting off acknowledging his ignorance

24:15

there, but also as someone who has coached

24:17

young young people who are getting in the game,

24:19

how much emphasis do you put on

24:22

people understanding the foundations

24:24

of the game and how the game has been played, or do you kind

24:26

of think it's not as relevant to how we're

24:28

playing now.

24:29

Well, to answer the second part, I

24:31

think for sure it's relevant. I think that young

24:34

players should watch Magic Johnson and see

24:36

his vision, see his willingness

24:39

to be a passer, see his willingness to make

24:41

teammates better. I mean, he's probably

24:44

one of the greatest teammates, maybe the greatest

24:46

teammate ever, because I mean you

24:49

saw in that Philadelphia series when Kareem

24:52

couldn't play and Magic went and played

24:54

the five spot and was shooting

24:56

hook shots. I mean, how many guys could

24:58

ever play the one in the five in the

25:00

same championship round. It just

25:02

doesn't happen. But he could do it. He's

25:05

probably the only player in the history of the game that

25:07

could play the one one

25:09

night and then go play the five and be

25:12

equally effective. But

25:14

I do think there's some brilliance in Anthony

25:17

Edwards too, Like he must watch TV

25:20

in an interview because you never know what he's gonna

25:22

say. Sure, yeah, And so there is

25:24

beauty in the fact that he

25:27

can bring attention with some

25:29

of his you know comments and

25:33

you know, cause discussion points.

25:35

But look, when I look back

25:37

at game planning, you know, when you had

25:39

the game plan for Charles Barkley.

25:42

That's about as heart a guy as

25:44

ever. The game plan. Yeah, mid

25:47

post draw fouls, six

25:50

foot four, but built like a linebacker,

25:53

like could draw a rethrow attempt as

25:56

well as anybody in today's game. So I

25:58

think that all the young player should really sit

26:00

down. There should almost be like a history

26:03

class, right for every college

26:05

player where they take

26:07

a class, you know, once a

26:10

week for an hour where you go back and

26:12

you look at, you know, how did Carl

26:14

Malone improve as a free throw shooter? Like

26:16

that thing is that story on his free throw

26:19

percentage increase is a phenomenal

26:21

story. So I think that you

26:23

got to know the history of the game because

26:26

I think it's it's the only

26:28

way to learn. It's the only way to to

26:30

try to get you know, little nuggets

26:32

that can help you improve as well.

26:35

I mean, part of I think aunts appeal also

26:37

is that he brings a sort of new

26:40

to this earth point of view, Like

26:43

that one interview where you like heard an Irish

26:45

accent for the first time, it was like, oh,

26:48

that's.

26:48

Kind of cool. Yeah, like that kind of like that so

26:51

from Iron, Yeah, So that's.

26:54

What that His description of

26:56

NBA history seemed like to me. Is

26:58

like someone who just found

27:01

out about that there wasn't an

27:03

NBA in the eighties and nineties and.

27:05

It wasn't just Michael Jordan playing himself the

27:08

whole time.

27:08

Yeah.

27:08

Yeah, yeah, it's like, huh.

27:10

Okay, I saw the documentary Space Jam

27:12

and I was intrigued, so I wanted to learn more

27:14

after that. But yeah,

27:17

but I mean I think that's kind of like what makes the comment

27:19

obviously not like feel like too antagonistic

27:21

or anything, because he does start off, admittedly

27:24

just saying like, hey, I didn't watch, so I can't

27:26

so what I'm about to say, don't

27:29

bother.

27:29

Taking it seriously because the

27:31

world were text.

27:33

Yeah, but it's just funny even to do that,

27:35

like you say, and then still give the answer

27:38

and then everyone's like it comes out with their pitchforks.

27:40

But like, as you talk about history for you, we've

27:43

been talking about sort of some older players that you

27:45

know, we have like listeners that span

27:48

many generations in terms of fandom. A

27:50

lot of younger fans, you know, some

27:53

like to get into highlights

27:55

and look at old tape and see how like the

27:57

players of Yesterdyear played, But who are like

27:59

some people that you feel like you would you would

28:01

emphasize to your players, who are you kind

28:04

of.

28:04

Like does everybody know about this player?

28:06

Does everybody know about this person's game or

28:08

the evolution they had with their game? Like

28:10

who are some people like that? Do you feel as somebody

28:13

who's leading younger players? Like who are

28:15

those sort of important players that you'd want them to be familiar

28:17

with?

28:17

I mean I think when I, you know, you look at the point

28:19

guard screening of John Stockton, like

28:22

you know, I think point guards need to look

28:24

at a tape of John Stockton and see

28:26

how physical he was at setting screens.

28:28

Obviously we all know about the assist

28:31

with Stockton, you

28:33

know. I think when you look at off guards, you

28:36

could think about like Rip Hamilton running

28:39

off of screens and the pace that

28:42

he used to come off as screens. I think,

28:44

you know, when you when you think about small forwards

28:47

like Dominic Wilkins, everybody talks about

28:49

the human highlight reel, but in

28:51

reality, guys like Dominic Wilkins, Bernard

28:54

King, those guys were

28:56

great small forward rebounders. You

28:58

know, Yeah, you could rebound your

29:01

position and then you had a

29:03

small forward like those guys that could

29:05

arrange rebound rebound outside their

29:07

area. So I think there's a you know, Carl

29:10

Malone's pick and roll game, understanding

29:12

when to roll, understanding when to pop, understanding

29:15

how to draw fouls at that power forward

29:17

spot. And then certainly, you know, if you're

29:19

a big guy, you know, if you watch Bill

29:22

Walton's passing and his vision and his

29:24

full court passing, or Wes Unsell

29:26

and his outlet passing, or even his

29:28

inbound passes after a made basket,

29:31

and then you know, I'm surprised that

29:33

more guys that are six ten, six

29:35

eleven seven foot have not tried

29:37

to, you know, emulate Kareem

29:39

Abdul Jabbar with this hookshot. So

29:42

I think there's a lot of guys that's just off the top

29:44

of my head. If you're a if you're a player

29:46

that's being moved to the point guard

29:49

position, you have size, certainly

29:51

you should watch the way that Magic Johnson would

29:53

get his team into offense where he might have to

29:55

play with his back to his rim

29:58

because of his size, but he could look over his shoulder

30:00

and find people. I know that you know, we did

30:03

that with Cody Martin a little bit where where

30:05

where we've tried to convert him from a

30:07

four to a point guard and Magic

30:10

Johnson clips were something that we felt were important.

30:13

Oh that's cool, all right, coach, let's take

30:15

one more break. We'll come back, and you are

30:17

in for the rapid fire round of questions,

30:19

the fastest question answer segment in

30:23

the history of this podcast.

30:26

So we'll take a quick break. We'll

30:28

be right back, getting your triple threat

30:30

position, because it's gonna be yeah.

30:33

Deny, deny, den't I deny, and

30:45

we're back.

30:45

We're back.

30:50

Us.

30:50

You know they're gonna say, I'm

30:52

really enjoying this because you're the head

30:55

coach of SC men's basketball. But really,

30:58

the hot seat is for everyone. It doesn't

31:00

discriminate, and it's hot for everybody.

31:03

This is the fastest question answer segment off podcasting

31:05

history, at least on this podcast history.

31:07

Where we're gonna ask you a question. Just just

31:10

take us quick second to think about it. Just

31:12

chest pass it right back, fire right back.

31:14

Don't give too long of an answer, because we want to

31:16

keep our title of the fastest question and answer segment

31:19

off podcasting history. And if you take too

31:21

long, we will be rude to you. And I just want

31:23

to warn you that that that's just that's the caveat

31:25

I want to enter with. So there's no hurt feelings

31:28

or surprises because we take our

31:30

superlative title very seriously.

31:33

That we gave ourselves.

31:34

That we gave ourselves. Obviously there's

31:36

an asterisk by that, but don't read the fine print.

31:38

Uh, Jackie ready? Yeah, coach

31:41

mus you ready?

31:42

Yep? Let's do it, all right, ran start the clock.

31:48

This is the fastest segment of all

31:51

time. Should should we? Who's

31:53

going to go first? You should? I could go first?

31:55

I think first one? All right, go Chris

31:58

Thomas h Are you familiar

32:00

with the concept of nominative determinism,

32:03

where a person's name determines what they do

32:05

for a living, Examples being

32:08

Hussein Bolt becoming a sprinter. Doug

32:11

Bowser is the name of the person

32:13

who is the head of Nintendo America,

32:16

or somebody who works in a

32:19

gym and in sports with the last name

32:21

muscleman. Has that ever come up?

32:23

That has never come up?

32:25

Okay, No, we just made

32:27

history.

32:27

Been your life?

32:28

Yeah, that's history?

32:29

All right? Okay.

32:31

I mean you're kind of shredded and you've got dumbbells

32:33

on your shirt right there?

32:34

Yeah, exactly.

32:35

Yeah. In the gym.

32:37

Yeah, I saw you in Nevada. I saw that clip of

32:40

you on a on a treadmill highlighting while

32:42

running.

32:43

I was like this, Yeah, how do you do that?

32:45

Yeah? I still

32:47

do it. I go six miles every day

32:49

with the highlighter and print

32:52

articles before I leave for work, and

32:55

then highlight them the next morning,

32:57

and then the staff all gets the cliff notes

33:00

of leadership articles, coaching articles.

33:02

I do it every day.

33:04

Oh amazing.

33:05

I was gonna say, you're hertridges

33:07

running through a moment. Yeah, you're

33:09

regular at Staples, aren't you.

33:11

Coach bus is back just load up his toner.

33:14

The Atlanta Hawks stan cast and actually

33:17

called me into the office and told me stop

33:19

printing and if I printed

33:21

a article that was

33:23

in color, I had to use black and white.

33:26

That was Lanta Hawk's president

33:28

at the time.

33:29

Wow wow, wow wow.

33:31

Now the president of the Dodgers. Uh yeah,

33:33

what a guy. Okay, next

33:36

question. This is something we've been talking. We've

33:38

been talking about.

33:39

Players of yesteryear.

33:40

But I'm just curious, even though we wrapped

33:42

up our nineties nostalgia series, we want

33:44

to play a game of would he be even

33:46

better now in this era?

33:49

And I'll give you three players, and you kind

33:51

of give me your thoughts if, if if they ended up in

33:53

our current era.

33:54

Amari Stodemeyer, Andre

33:56

Kirolinko and lamar Odom.

33:59

How do you see what you look at those two players, who

34:01

do you feel would really thrive in

34:04

our current era?

34:05

Lamar odhim, I think he was one of the first

34:07

positionless players, a guy that could play

34:09

three, four to two if need

34:12

be, could play a little bit of point forward.

34:14

So I would say, Odim, that's pretty easy.

34:17

Okay, Wow, I agreement that

34:19

was the right answer. That was the right answer.

34:21

That was but I you didn't

34:23

need to make fun of us for how easy it was.

34:25

All Right, that's the easiest question I've

34:27

ever been asked. That's actually I

34:30

answered that with my eyes closed. Do

34:33

you is there a player other than those

34:35

three that sticks in your mind?

34:38

Like you mentioned Barkley being really hard to game

34:40

plan four, But is there a player that you're like,

34:42

God, if he had come along twenty years

34:44

later, he would have been incredible.

34:48

Doctor J. Yeah, he

34:50

was just like he could play in any era. And

34:53

I think about social media now and

34:56

how every highlight gets exemplified

34:59

and put out. The Doctor

35:01

J would make a lot of money.

35:03

When you think about his personality,

35:06

when you think about how artistic his

35:08

game was.

35:10

That his name was doctor j It's

35:12

pretty cool. The

35:14

dopest name ever.

35:15

I remember as a kid, I thought he was an actual

35:18

doctor, like when I first heard of him, and

35:21

well, but I was like, but don't you go to college

35:23

for like four years and then you go to the NBA.

35:26

But then he became a doctor And my dad was like

35:28

he had just never told me. He's like, yeah, but he's a

35:30

doctor.

35:31

H And I'm impressive.

35:33

I embarrassed myself in fifth grade. Pretty

35:35

bad, coach Musk.

35:38

From your perspective, you know, looking

35:40

at this upcoming NBA season, who

35:43

do you see as kind of like a dark horse team,

35:45

like someone we're not talking about, but as you've seen

35:47

some bit of progression, you feel like, Okay, this

35:49

is.

35:50

A team that I think, you know is going

35:52

to make some noise.

35:53

You know, we're so I'm so immersed in the in the

35:55

college game. I mean I do like so,

35:57

you know, like Timberwolves are, in my mind,

35:59

are a team that if they remain healthy,

36:02

if their coach can remain healthy.

36:03

As well, Uh, I

36:06

get taken out.

36:08

I like what Minnesota has, you know,

36:10

with the size and and and

36:12

a superstar player and a team

36:14

that continues or organization that

36:16

continues uh to get better and better.

36:19

And and you know for me, I you know, I

36:21

like watching the Utah Jazz play just

36:23

uh from a studying a younger

36:26

roster with a younger coach that runs

36:29

really really good stuff. So

36:31

that's a team that I like to watch. And

36:34

then Oklahoma City is another team that that

36:36

I love to watch, another really

36:38

good young coach with some really great

36:40

young pieces. Actually have two of our Arkansas

36:43

guys. So you know, I'm a big Thunder

36:45

fan. And and uh and I think I

36:47

think the Thunder and t Wolves both can

36:49

make noise this year.

36:51

Wow, word for word again, you

36:54

got it exactly right. The answer is

36:57

looking at our note, I think he might be copying

36:59

off of me, off my answer sheet. We'll

37:02

coach Muscleman. What a pleasure having you

37:04

on Miles and Jack got mad Booth. Yes, uh,

37:08

congratulations and looking forward

37:10

to seeing what the what the Trojans

37:13

do this year here in southern California.

37:17

Where can people find you? Follow

37:19

you? You know all of that stuff?

37:22

Yeah on Twitter, it's just DP

37:24

Muscleman and

37:27

we're pretty active on social media. I

37:29

know it's a little bit outside

37:31

of the way I was raised with, you know, coming

37:34

much like you did, Jack, when you know,

37:37

your dad was pretty old school, so was my dad,

37:40

but you got to change with the times, and so I'm

37:42

pretty active on social media, at least I

37:45

try to be for recruiting. But

37:47

hey, it's been great joining you guys. I

37:50

appreciate it. Jack, Miles, thanks so much

37:52

for.

37:52

Having me on Oh yeah, thanks man.

37:55

All right, well, you can follow us at the hashtag

37:57

mad boost He's beat A S t i e

38:00

Y for show links and updates, and you can join the conversation

38:02

on our discord server, and you can follow

38:04

me on Twitter at Miles of Great.

38:06

I'm at Jack Underscore O'Brien.

38:09

And that was another splendid

38:11

edition of Miles and Jack dot Mad Boosties

38:13

with Coach where Musselman thank you so much

38:16

for joining us again and we'll see you next

38:18

week.

38:19

Bye bye,