4:00

of the attacking players that England have of how

4:03

you cannot get them all into the team?

4:05

This comes with the job unpopular decisions and

4:07

of course with the job as a national

4:09

coach the decisions that some supporters maybe don't

4:12

like or don't understand but we

4:14

will look from January for the best group

4:16

of players. We will maybe not necessarily look

4:18

for the 24

4:21

best individuals but we will look for

4:23

the best group and but

4:25

I have huge trust and

4:27

belief in these players because I know

4:29

what it takes to play in the

4:31

Premier League, I know what it takes

4:34

to play for these top clubs in

4:36

this competition. They have the character, they

4:38

have the hunger and they

4:40

have the commitment to achieve

4:42

something very special but like you

4:44

said and you're very right it

4:47

comes also with difficult decisions and comes with

4:49

the job we will not be shy of

4:51

taking them. Do you know that we

4:54

have long referred to this job as

4:56

the impossible job? Okay good

4:59

I didn't know that before so I

5:01

know it now and so let's make

5:03

the impossible possible. Well

5:05

that was a good answer to you at the end John Murray

5:08

wasn't it? Well I

5:10

think over all these decades I was going to get one

5:12

sooner or later. But actually

5:18

that answer summed up I actually

5:20

felt all day he seemed to

5:22

handle himself really well

5:24

today actually I thought. Yeah absolutely

5:26

right and I have to say

5:29

and I don't mean this

5:32

to be disrespectful to Lee Carsley but

5:34

we were in the same auditorium at

5:36

Wembley as we had

5:38

been last Thursday night in

5:40

the immediate aftermath of the defeat against Greece

5:42

and the team that Lee Carsley picked that

5:45

night and the fact that it didn't work

5:47

it backfired for him and he

5:49

really struggled in that room with the questions

5:51

that he had to answer and actually at

5:54

the time as we now know he knew

5:56

that Thomas Tuckel had already signed a contract

5:58

to get the job on a permanent and

8:00

he's been very pleasant. That's the

8:02

most impressive I've seen him mark that

8:04

time at Chelsea and those in those

8:06

months when you know there's

8:08

no one saying anything was there publicly as

8:11

far as I can recall you know everyone

8:13

was just basically sending sending

8:15

Thomas Tuchel out you know

8:17

Roman Abramovich's ownership had suddenly ended and and

8:19

he had to be the public face of

8:21

that club and face some difficult questions you

8:24

know when he was talking about they weren't

8:26

quite sure how they were going to get

8:28

to a certain game and he might drive

8:30

them there himself and I thought he dealt

8:32

with it really well and on the night

8:34

actually at Luton Town at Kenilworth Road when

8:36

we covered that match you know

8:38

he couldn't have possibly known what the

8:41

future was going to hold for Chelsea

8:43

and I thought I thought he you know

8:45

if you're going to audition for a role

8:47

like this where you can face anything then

8:49

that was it. Is

8:51

he the right fit football wise

8:53

Andros? Yes

8:57

having watched his first six months

9:00

at Chelsea and in particular

9:02

three games I think they played three

9:04

games against Man City including the Champions

9:06

League final just the way he

9:08

was able to control

9:10

the game with possession with Giorgino

9:12

in midfield and I've never really

9:14

seen a team play

9:17

against Man City and really grab the game

9:19

and have majority of possession and majority of

9:21

control of the game and I think that's

9:23

what England need at the minute looking at

9:25

the final against Spain which

9:27

is probably the blueprint we

9:29

didn't really weren't really able to grasp

9:31

possession and have control and have spells

9:33

in the game where we make Spain

9:35

chase and make Spain get tired and

9:38

make drag them out of position so I think he's probably

9:42

in a football sense he's probably the exact

9:44

appointment we need at this stage for this

9:46

team who are good enough

9:48

to win tournaments like the Euros in the summer. Let's

9:52

focus on the FA here

9:55

and how they came to appoint Thomas

9:57

Tuchel we ought to say he's He's

10:00

signing or he's starting in January John.

10:02

He signed for 18 months

10:05

and they said They

10:07

interviewed Approximately 10 candidates

10:11

for this. That's right. Yep. That's right. So

10:14

He said it's an 18-month contract

10:16

But he intimated that that could be

10:18

extended if things go well, he said

10:21

they could sit down together So he

10:23

will start on New Year's Day 2025

10:27

so not immediately It'll be January the

10:29

1st and Lee cars Lee will remain

10:31

as the interim head coach for the matches

10:33

next month The final two group matches in

10:36

Nations League B before he will return to

10:38

the under 21 job So

10:40

there is no more hopefully about that anymore and

10:44

He will as the first German

10:46

coach to manage England He

10:48

will have an Englishman as his assistant

10:50

in Anthony Barry Who

10:53

worked with Tookle at Chelsea and at Bayern

10:55

Munich over the course of the last couple

10:57

of seasons and they say that there Will

10:59

be further appointments to be made to quote

11:03

small backroom team Okay,

11:06

John's been talking today to the FA

11:08

CEO Mark Bullen them on why they've

11:10

gone for to call We

11:12

did a lot of work before the Euros and

11:14

what was the ideal? characteristic and profile of an

11:17

England manager to help us give us a best

11:19

chance of winning in the tournament and Thomas

11:21

fitted that really well. So he was always on our target

11:23

list So we made a proactive approach

11:26

to speak to him In amongst

11:28

speaking with a number of other people in the

11:30

industry because we wanted to run a thorough process

11:32

But he was outstanding. He gave a really really

11:34

strong presentation outlined how he

11:36

felt he could help us win and The

11:38

chemistry felt really good and we concluded the partnership quite

11:41

soon after that we did interview some English coaches And

11:44

amongst interviewing some international coaches But our focus was

11:46

on having someone to give us the best chance

11:48

of winning in the USA and we think we've

11:50

got that We felt it was really important for

11:52

our fans for the players and for the whole

11:55

country That we appointed the coach that would give

11:57

our talented group of players the best chance to

11:59

win in the USA and that's

12:01

what we believe we've done. Are you surprised

12:03

Mark that that has actually been a thing

12:05

bearing in mind England have gone down this

12:08

road before? Do you think it's because he's

12:10

German? All I

12:12

can say John is we really wanted to get

12:14

the very best for the job, the

12:16

one that would give us and our players the best

12:18

chance to do well in the USA and we believe

12:21

we've done that. And I hope

12:23

you'll understand Mark, I do have to ask, you

12:25

know, was there any possibility that Pep Guardiola might

12:27

have been the England manager? So,

12:29

John, as you'll understand, I won't be able to comment

12:31

on any individual that we spoke to or perhaps didn't

12:34

speak to as part of the

12:36

process. Confidentiality was really important for us, but

12:38

for all set of candidates we spoke to.

12:41

What about the two issues

12:43

of availability and affordability? You

12:46

know, were they right at the front of your mind?

12:49

I think, of course, those are factors when you're going

12:51

into a new recruitment process. Look, we cannot afford to

12:53

match the salaries of top clubs pay,

12:55

but we felt we had something really special to

12:58

offer. We've got the opportunity to win a World

13:00

Cup. We've got the opportunity to work with a

13:02

really, really talented group of young players. And Thomas

13:04

absolutely bought into that. And to be fair, there

13:07

were quite a few coaches interested who saw

13:10

the opportunity way beyond any financial measures.

13:12

Have you had to break the bank

13:14

for Thomas Tuchel? No,

13:17

absolutely not. We've got a really tight salary structure.

13:19

Gareth and his team fitted within it. Thomas and

13:21

his team fit within it. This is about far

13:23

more than money, though, to him and the team.

13:25

They see the opportunity to work with a super

13:27

talented group of players and to challenge for honors

13:29

in the USA. I said to

13:31

him, you know, was he aware that

13:33

we refer to this as the impossible job? What

13:36

makes you think that he might be able

13:38

to pull it off? Well, I

13:40

think one of Gareth's biggest achievements is he's shown

13:42

that the job is possible. You know, we've been

13:44

knocking on the door in the last four major

13:47

championships, and we are really confident that we've

13:49

now got a team that's ready to win. We wanted

13:51

a coach that was then able to take us that

13:53

final meter. We obviously felt

13:55

Gareth was incredibly close a number of times and

13:58

we didn't quite get there. Let's see if we can. can get

14:00

there with Thomas. And bearing in

14:02

mind, you know, we know what Serena Vigman

14:04

achieved, are you trying to pull off the

14:06

same kind of thing? Well I think Serena

14:09

would say that she felt she came into a

14:11

team that was ready to win and she instilled

14:13

that confidence in the team and I

14:15

think part of that came from the fact she was

14:17

a proven winner. So of course we see parallels with

14:19

that and that was forefront in our mind when we

14:21

were looking for a head coach, someone that could really

14:23

give the team confidence that they had what it takes

14:27

And just finally, why is he

14:29

not starting until January? Why not

14:32

jump straight in? So we were

14:34

always really clear with Lee that he had three

14:36

international windows to run the Nations League and we

14:38

think that was the right thing to do and

14:40

then Thomas was always very clear that he wanted

14:42

this absolute focus on the World Cup so to

14:44

come on on 1st of January on an initial

14:46

18 month project to see if he can do

14:48

as well as possible in the USA, worked for

14:50

him and worked for us. Is he allowed, is

14:52

he able to have any input next month? He's

14:55

absolutely able to be in contact with us

14:57

but the reality is he's going to leave

14:59

that to Lee. It's Lee's camp to run,

15:01

there are Lee's games to run. Of course

15:03

he's available if he ever wants to speak

15:05

to him but Thomas takes over from the

15:07

1st of January. Mark Pullingham, the FA CEO

15:09

with John Murray. Do you think if he

15:11

leaves the FA he could go into politics

15:14

bearing in mind he managed to tell you

15:16

absolutely nothing in that four minutes? I

15:20

thought actually to you know

15:22

there's all sorts of salaries will be mentioned

15:25

that Thomas Tookle might be might be on.

15:27

I thought that was quite revealing that he

15:29

said that they have not broken the bank.

15:31

It's along the same lines as

15:34

the salary that Gareth Southgate was being paid

15:36

which I think is interesting for a manager

15:38

who's been at Bayern Munich, Chelsea, Paris

15:41

Saint-Germain and Bridget Dortmund. Yeah

15:43

but I would imagine if you've been

15:45

at Paris Saint-Germain and Bayern Munich and

15:48

Chelsea you've probably been fairly well remunerated

15:50

wouldn't you? Well as

15:52

I find when I rub shoulders

15:54

with wealthy people they always

15:57

seem to want more don't they? I

16:00

mean there are

16:02

so many things that you kind

16:05

of question partly

16:07

through some of those answers but

16:10

the one that stands out for me

16:12

Andros is first and foremost is the

16:14

first of January. I

16:16

just don't understand why you

16:19

don't let him start now. I don't

16:21

understand the argument about he wants to focus on the

16:23

World Cup. Do you? I

16:25

think there's got to be something behind

16:28

the scenes with Bayern

16:30

Munich in terms of his severance package

16:32

or Mani O to him. He may

16:34

forego that if he starts

16:36

before January. I don't know because like you said

16:39

it doesn't make sense and sort

16:41

of the next camp you've got Lee Carsley picking

16:43

a squad, you've got players who know he's not

16:45

going to be there, the squad after yeah it's

16:47

just a bit of an awkward one but there

16:50

must be something contractually because like you said it

16:52

doesn't make sense. I

16:54

don't think that I haven't gone through that

16:56

the weekend. I don't think I

16:58

think the FA will have turned around and

17:00

gone this isn't fair on Lee Carsley. This

17:03

isn't fair to do like this. He's already

17:05

signed the contract. It's agreed to start that

17:07

in January like we know. Well we

17:10

can't go through another international window. We're trying

17:12

to be fair by Lee Carsley. He's already

17:14

here. He's our under 21 coach. He's doing

17:17

a good job. Let's stick by him. Well

17:19

what's the right thing to do by sticking by him? Let

17:23

him suffer through another press conference

17:25

where he's talking in riddles. Let's

17:27

just get it out in the open. Let's get

17:29

it done. Let's get on with it. But Rob

17:32

do you not think it's worse now because he's

17:34

going to have to take

17:36

training the next camp. He's going to

17:38

have to try and command respect. Try

17:40

and get players to listen and buy

17:43

into what he wants to do and

17:45

these players know that he's

17:47

gone. He's gone after the week. So yeah I

17:49

think it leaves him in

17:51

an even worse scenario than leaving him hanging and

17:53

waiting to see if he gets the job full

17:56

time. Well there'll be someone else who's

17:58

watching as well who's the next get-up player. and

18:00

coming manager and he'll be taking notes, I'm sure.

18:02

You know, having been with England last week, we

18:05

did wonder, didn't we, why Dean Henderson had played

18:07

in the match on Sunday. And one of the

18:09

reasons given for that was that Lee Carsley wanted

18:11

to make sure that the next coach was going

18:14

to see as many players as possible. And I

18:16

think now that we know that he knew that

18:18

he was getting the job last Tuesday, I think

18:20

that it would be, if you

18:23

were going to put one and one together, I think

18:25

you would think that there had been some influence

18:28

over the course of the last week. Well,

18:30

yeah, but I mean, I mean, as we

18:33

discussed on the Monday nightclub, Andros, you know,

18:35

we were all feeling very sorry for Lee

18:37

Carsley actually after the week that he's had.

18:39

I feel even more sorry for him now,

18:41

given that he had this to sort of,

18:44

well, don't I mean, I know you laugh

18:46

at Rob, but they basically

18:48

threw him to the Wolves last week. Oh,

18:51

he's a willing volunteer. He's

18:53

not some of it. Come on. Do

18:56

you know? No, I think, I think,

18:58

look, I think they've reacted and they've made the

19:00

appointment. They had the best guy who they said

19:02

they're going to do. They've

19:04

made this appointment. They had to get

19:06

the contract signed now before any other

19:08

clubs sack their manager and came in

19:11

for him. And you're looking at

19:13

big clubs who could do that in the very

19:15

near future. And it's from there, they're saying, well,

19:17

we've got to do that now. And

19:20

actually, now that it's happened, we

19:22

don't really want Lee Carsley to go through again. So we're

19:24

going to go through this now. I don't think this was

19:26

any of their own doing. I think this is just the

19:28

situation where it's come to. John. And

19:32

Anthony Barry, by the way, will

19:34

still be involved with Portugal until

19:36

the end of these matches. So

19:38

there's another little factor there as

19:40

well. And Tuchl did on several

19:43

occasions talk about being very, very

19:45

happy with the timescale involved here.

19:47

Yeah. Okay. The other thing that

19:49

when we look at the timescale

19:52

is an 18 month contract.

19:56

Did they give any reasons for that? Bearing

19:58

it bearing in mind, Garris Southgate's first. contract

20:00

was a four-year deal wasn't it John? Yeah

20:03

and and funny enough I think from memory

20:05

I think most England managers that's that's the

20:07

stock contract isn't

20:09

it for two tournaments. I

20:13

think as well there's a little bit

20:15

of uncertainty here because you know when

20:17

he does take over he right

20:20

now doesn't know who his first match is

20:22

going to be against because the

20:24

the draw for the qualifiers the World Cup

20:27

qualifiers is going to be made in the

20:29

second week of December and

20:32

what they could find is if

20:34

England do finish second in the Nations League group

20:37

there will actually be Nations League playoffs

20:39

for England to play in

20:41

in March and the latter part of

20:44

this season so it could be that

20:46

or it could be World Cup qualifiers

20:48

and also this hasn't actually

20:50

been confirmed yet but I do believe

20:52

that the seedings for the World Cup

20:54

draw are going to be based on

20:56

how you've done in the Nations League

20:58

so it's entirely possible that Thomas Tuchl

21:00

and England could find themselves in in

21:02

quite a tough group. I

21:05

think that they've got around the technicality chappers I think

21:07

when they said they weren't breaking the bank they put

21:09

all four years money in 18 months. I mean unlike

21:18

with a club side Andros the length

21:20

of contract for a manager is is

21:24

not relevant here it's not like you are

21:26

considering your future as a player and how

21:28

it's tied into a manager's contract for the

21:31

England players it's kind of irrelevant

21:33

isn't it? I don't know I think it

21:36

in a way it probably puts more pressure

21:38

on this one tournament knowing

21:40

that it's the only one you're

21:42

contracted for you could get a

21:44

horrendous draw and face France

21:46

in the last 16 for example and go out

21:49

even though you're building something well you go out

21:51

in the second round all of a sudden the

21:53

fans turn on you the media

21:55

who don't need a second invitation turn on

21:57

you and all of a sudden it makes

21:59

it difficult for you yourself. So yeah, I

22:01

probably go the other way. I think it

22:03

puts a lot of pressure now on this

22:06

next World Cup. So do you think the

22:08

message is basically, and maybe we

22:10

should from an England point of view, all of

22:12

us embrace this, they've basically gone, right, we

22:15

need a coach that's won something, we need

22:17

him with a world class reputation, we've got

22:20

to finals, we've got to semi-finals, we've

22:22

got to quarter-finals, right? This

22:24

is the tournament we

22:26

have to go and win. Is that basically the

22:29

message, do you think? I

22:31

think 100%. If that

22:33

wasn't the case, they would have gone for Lee

22:36

Casley, another up and coming manager, a

22:38

project, a four-year plan to get England

22:41

to win something. But the fact that they've gone for

22:43

a winner, similar to, I liken it

22:45

to Spurs when they kind of had the

22:47

Pochettino five-year plan. And then they went for

22:49

Mourinho because they knew that this current group

22:51

needed to win something. It reminds me of

22:53

that a little bit because you've got world-class

22:56

striker Harry Kane, is it his last

22:58

one or two tournaments? They need to

23:00

get a trophy while they've got,

23:02

for me, the best number nine in world football. And

23:05

it's like, do we risk that with an

23:07

up and coming manager? Or do we go

23:09

for the best? And it looks as if

23:11

they've gone for what they perceive to be

23:13

the best coach to get them the World

23:15

Cup in two years. And

23:18

he doesn't last longer than 18 months at the clubs, is

23:21

he? Previous clubs, he's roughly

23:23

the big clubs. He's done good jobs, but they've

23:26

lasted about 18 months. Well,

23:28

I'll come on more to his reputation at clubs and

23:30

when we look at how he's going to approach this.

23:32

But actually, if you follow, you know, Andros'

23:35

train of thought there, John,

23:37

that is actually quite refreshing for four

23:39

wants, actually. And I'm not just talking

23:42

about England men's football here, but a

23:44

lot of sports. Oh, it's a four-year

23:46

plan. It's a five-year project. You know,

23:49

by the time we get to 2030, we'll be able to

23:51

do X, Y, Z. It's

23:53

quite nice to go, hang on a minute.

23:56

This is the period. Let's go and win

23:58

it. Yeah. there

24:00

was no Shilly Shallying today. Do you

24:04

know what the German for Shilly Shallying

24:06

is? They're Shilly Shally, maybe.

24:10

But he

24:12

was talking himself about the target

24:14

is the second star. Again,

24:18

as I said at the outset, he

24:20

had that air of the

24:23

super in control

24:26

Euro coach when he stepped in,

24:28

you know, that he was the

24:31

more than a steady hand on the teller,

24:33

you know, this, this is my domain, you

24:35

know, that's what he's got. He's definitely got

24:37

that presence. Just

24:39

going back to draws

24:41

and seedings and so on and so forth,

24:44

presumably in a World Cup

24:46

qualifying group, if

24:48

they're basing it on the nation's league, they're not

24:51

going to be in the top seeds,

24:53

are they because they're not in there? No, that's how I read

24:55

it. Although I don't think that's

24:58

actually been completely nailed down. I think they've

25:00

said it. So presumably if you are in

25:03

the group, a group, then you will get

25:05

the top seeds in those qualifying groups. Yeah,

25:07

that's right. But you can still qualify for

25:09

the World Cup through the nation's league playoffs,

25:12

through nation's league and also there will be

25:14

playoffs there as well. But you've got to

25:16

finish top of the group to qualify automatically.

25:20

This is the Football Daily Podcast

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with Matt Catman. Who

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Go to bbc.com/Women's Football where you'll also

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GMT. This

26:04

is the Football Daily Podcast with

26:06

Mark Chapman. John

26:09

Murray, Andros Townsend, Rob Green are with

26:11

us and here are the thoughts of

26:13

Alan Shearer. I think in

26:15

the grand scheme of things it's a really

26:17

good appointment. When you look at

26:20

where England are and how long

26:22

it is since we have won

26:24

a trophy, we've got a guy

26:26

in who wins trophies and who

26:29

was used to handling big name

26:31

players, superstar players and

26:33

has a proven track record. And

26:36

at this moment in time, he

26:39

was probably the best guy that was

26:41

available and free to come in and

26:43

do the job. I

26:46

understand they sounded out Pep and Jurgen

26:48

and Ancelotti and one or two others.

26:52

My understanding also is that they

26:54

didn't sound the best English

26:57

coach at the moment at this moment in time,

26:59

which is Eddie Howard at Newcastle, which

27:01

for me is a Newcastle fan I'm quite

27:03

happy about. But then that

27:05

would also send a message out to other

27:07

English coaches and think, well, hang on, what's

27:10

this big system and big track

27:12

record that St George's Park

27:14

was or is for English

27:17

coaches? But I think for

27:19

where England are at this moment in time, I think

27:21

it's a really good appointment. Do we

27:23

all play a part in the state

27:25

of or the situation

27:28

that English coaches find themselves in?

27:31

How would you mean that? Well, I mean,

27:33

media fans, whatever, of different clubs might demand,

27:35

oh, this glamour one, that glamour one. I

27:37

know people keep going back to Grand Potter

27:39

at Chelsea, but that

27:41

that was such a unique situation,

27:44

wasn't it, that it shouldn't cloud

27:47

future appointments to try and get English

27:49

coaches a chance. Yeah,

27:52

I think we do because I mean,

27:56

and also in the young, open

27:58

common English coaches. if you don't

28:02

do really, really well immediately, then

28:04

it seems as if you're not gonna get a chance

28:07

again. And even when, if

28:09

you do really well, and then the following year,

28:11

that you have a little bit of a sticky

28:13

patch, that seems to be, that's it, you're finished,

28:15

you're done. That's your chance done, you know? And

28:19

that is a really, really difficult

28:21

situation for young English coaches coming

28:23

through. And yeah, perhaps we all

28:26

play a part in that in terms

28:28

of what we have to see and

28:31

do with our job in terms of

28:33

analysis and criticism. From your experience as

28:35

an England player, from your experience as

28:37

an England captain, would it really matter

28:40

for you, the nationality of the man

28:42

you played under? No, not

28:44

one bit. I

28:46

play for the country, yes, it

28:48

would be, I was fortunate

28:50

enough to play under some really, really good England

28:53

coaches in terms of Terry Venables and

28:55

Glenn Hoddle and Graham Taylor. I was

28:58

lucky enough to give me

29:00

my first England cap. It

29:02

didn't bother me that, or it

29:04

wouldn't have bothered me if they weren't English guys,

29:06

they were really good coaches. But

29:08

there's no way it would have affected

29:11

me as a player or my performance

29:13

if it was a foreign coach. And do

29:16

you think it gives England

29:19

the best chance of winning the next

29:21

World Cup this appointment? In

29:25

terms of his experience, in terms

29:27

of his knowledge of winning trophies,

29:30

in terms of him also managing in England,

29:32

I think when you look at who

29:35

we've, the foreign coaches we've had

29:37

in the past, who also had

29:39

great CVs, I think what Thomas

29:41

Tuchel's got over those two was

29:43

he's actually managed in England before,

29:45

so he knows what to expect.

29:48

He knows how we operate and how we roll.

29:50

And I think that will be a huge help

29:52

to him. So in terms of all of those

29:54

things, for the next World Cup,

29:56

then we've got a very, very good coach. charge

30:00

of England. That

30:02

was Alan Shearer talking to me a little

30:05

earlier on as someone

30:07

who has played under a foreign

30:10

coach as England manager Rob Green. I know

30:13

you've told us many times it was laugh

30:15

a minute under Fabio Capello. Did it make

30:17

a difference? Yeah, and Sven. Yeah,

30:22

it didn't make a buying bit of

30:24

difference. No, didn't like him at all.

30:26

So it's whether it was English or

30:28

Italian. No, I think once you're in

30:30

the dressing room and you're in the

30:32

training ground and you get in direction

30:34

and instruction and sometimes

30:36

berated bit too much, it's kind

30:39

of it doesn't really

30:41

matter so much. So as

30:43

a player, you have managers chop and change

30:45

all the time. What you have

30:47

is tactics, what you have is motivation, what

30:49

you look for in a manager is leadership.

30:51

And if those things come together, it's

30:54

surpassed that by a million miles now football.

30:56

You don't think of it at all. You

30:59

just want to be coached properly, don't

31:02

you, Andros? Yeah,

31:04

100%. As

31:06

long as like Rob said, as long

31:08

as the manager can get his point

31:10

across in English, it doesn't

31:12

matter what nationality you are. And you

31:14

just want to be coached. But these players, they just want to

31:17

win. Most majority of the squad have had

31:19

two heartbreaking final

31:21

defeats. They just want to

31:23

get over the line and they want to

31:25

win. And Thomas two cores proved that he

31:27

is a winner. He came to Chelsea within

31:29

six months at the Champions League title under

31:33

his belt. So I know these guys just want to win. And the

31:36

FA feel that this man is the best chance of us winning

31:38

the World Cup in two years time. Do

31:41

you think he do you think

31:43

his stature is going to be

31:45

important and trust in the sense

31:47

of and John asked

31:49

him this, we'll come back to John on it.

31:51

But the, you know, if

31:53

you have to leave people out, is

31:56

his stature within the game important? Yes,

32:00

I think he will command respect.

32:04

I don't think there will be players

32:06

turning down call ups if

32:08

they don't get their own way, if that's what you're

32:11

asking. But

32:13

also on the other side, I

32:15

think international football and Rob will

32:17

probably agree is totally different to

32:20

club football. I've seen. The

32:23

best thing Gareth Southgate did when he came

32:25

in was just changed the whole environment. It

32:27

wasn't about tactics, it wasn't about coaching, it

32:29

wasn't about training sessions. It was about changing

32:32

the whole environment when players join up with

32:34

the national team. It was it

32:36

went from business like to a

32:39

week away with family. I think that that you

32:41

started to see that on the pitch and off

32:43

the pitch, the the the brotherhood

32:45

and even what he did with the

32:47

media. Absolutely genius. The way he got

32:49

the media on

32:52

his side by just doing silly little

32:54

things, silly little games, just interacting with

32:56

the media, getting them on site. In

32:59

the international football, for me, that is three

33:01

quarters of the battle. And two calls got

33:03

the coaching. For me, can he do the

33:05

other side of it that Gareth Southgate did

33:07

so well? He's really

33:10

well liked within the players, within the dressing room

33:12

and by the coaching staff as well. The backroom

33:14

staff is speaking to the guys at Chelsea when

33:16

he was there. And they said he's up there

33:18

with the best of the

33:20

however many they'd had at Chelsea at the time.

33:22

And he was up there with Mourinho for man

33:25

management. And he was up there. And

33:27

he invited the whole backroom staff to

33:29

his house in London. And he listened

33:31

to everybody's opinion. They sat down, had

33:33

a drink. He played some records. His

33:35

vinyl collection is vast. And he

33:38

asked everybody of their opinion. And in

33:40

tournament football, you've got to get everybody

33:42

on side. And it's to keep the

33:44

ball rolling and to keep that feel

33:46

good feeling going for over a month,

33:48

over six weeks, over two months by

33:51

the end of it. So I

33:53

think that's critical part of it. And he is

33:55

a charismatic guy. He has got that about him.

33:58

And he was up there for the guys at Chelsea. said he was

34:00

one of the best. So

34:03

why is there also the impression,

34:05

Rob, that he

34:07

doesn't mind ruffling

34:09

feathers and causing the odd

34:11

rock then? Because you make it sound

34:14

like he's brilliant to deal with and

34:16

go and put some vinyl on and

34:18

have a glass of wine and it's

34:20

all great. But there is also this

34:23

perception of him that, oh,

34:25

he's happy to get stuck in. Yeah,

34:28

and he'll be stubborn, he'll cut his

34:30

nose off his face at times. But

34:32

I think that's more in

34:34

the environment in club football. He

34:36

fell out at PSG because he

34:38

wanted a deep line midfielder

34:40

and they got him De Nio who he

34:42

saw as a centre-half and played him at

34:45

centre-half despite him not being there. He wouldn't

34:47

play at Bina, Upper Mercano and Kim Minjay

34:49

on the other side of centre-backs, £80m

34:52

worth of signings. He wouldn't play them because

34:54

they just lost his trust. Matsurawi was another

34:56

one. He just went, no, don't want anything

34:59

to do with you. And

35:01

so he is stubborn in that regard.

35:03

What is international football is

35:05

entirely different. And I think that's

35:07

where the

35:10

shortfalls maybe lend

35:12

itself to international football for him because

35:15

he's only got the cards that he's dealt. Bring

35:17

John back in. I'll bring you back here

35:19

in a moment. Let's hear from Touk himself

35:21

on how he would describe his own personality.

35:24

Maybe I try to describe my

35:26

coaching personality, but I think it's

35:29

pretty obvious. I'm very emotional and

35:31

I love what I'm

35:33

doing. I'm passionate about

35:36

football. And like

35:38

we said before, this task

35:41

and this role just brought

35:43

the young me alive and

35:46

it brought back my teenage

35:50

days, to get excited for

35:54

such a big task, for the

35:56

three Lions, for playing matches at Wembley,

35:58

for working. with this group of players

36:00

so everyone can be assured that we

36:03

will do it with passion and with

36:05

emotions and we will try to install

36:08

values and principles

36:10

and rules as

36:12

quickly as possible to make

36:16

the dream come true. First we

36:18

have to of course go through

36:20

the qualification process to the World

36:22

Cup but it starts for us

36:24

in January and we will dive

36:26

in completely. John? Yeah

36:30

and that was one of his best quotes of

36:32

the day wasn't it about the role bringing the

36:34

young me alive but

36:36

I am with Rob I think that

36:39

generally his reputation for

36:41

ruffling feathers has really

36:44

been about transfer policy hasn't it he doesn't

36:47

want certain players he wants he wants other

36:49

players brought in and that is one

36:51

of the fundamental differences between club

36:53

football and international football you have to get on

36:55

with it that's why I feel and find the

37:00

international football has a unique

37:02

appeal now because

37:04

of everything we're seeing in the in the

37:07

game right now whether it's the the APTs

37:09

and the legal challenges you

37:11

know international football is a much feels like

37:13

a much purer form of the game and

37:16

you know if he was at a club he presumably

37:19

would be saying to the the

37:21

the hierarchy I need a left back

37:23

I have to I have to get a left

37:25

back here he's going to have to be creative.

37:29

I think it's the opposite I

37:31

think in all his other clubs like you said he's had

37:35

players thrown upon him and he's

37:38

been made to play them whereas I think

37:40

he feels like right it's international football I've

37:42

got the freedom to pick whoever I want whoever

37:45

I think is best that position and nobody really

37:47

has a say in it so I think in

37:49

a way he prefers the freedom

37:51

of being able to do all himself

37:53

as opposed to having to fit people

37:55

in because they're paid x amount for

37:57

them or he's got pressure from up

37:59

upstairs and all the nonsense that goes

38:01

goes along with club football these days.

38:04

John. I'll tell you

38:06

what, the scene that I saw today that I

38:08

thought we've never seen this before,

38:10

when he was doing all of the usual

38:12

photo shots that people have probably seen on

38:14

the social media, I will see them in

38:16

the newspapers in the morning, you know, the

38:19

classic hold up the shirt stand in front

38:21

of where it's written Wembley in the stadium,

38:23

they actually had the American football posts in

38:25

the pitch at Wembley. I was

38:27

thinking not a single

38:29

one of the previous 15 permanent England

38:31

managers can surely have done their photographs

38:34

with an American set of American football

38:36

posts on the pitch. Alf

38:39

Ramsey? No. Was he never

38:41

excited about the New England Patriots? And

38:45

another little bit of insight, which I think you'll enjoy

38:47

today, when he

38:49

had done all that and then came up to

38:51

do our interview, we ended up

38:53

talking about what he was wearing today

38:56

and he said he'd bought

38:58

a new suit for the occasion and

39:00

he did want to wear a tie

39:02

today because he wanted to give off

39:04

the impression of an English gentleman. But

39:06

the but the FAA suggested to them

39:08

that today was going to be a

39:10

ties off affair. Did they? Goodness

39:15

me, right. Let's

39:17

move on from the sartorial side of

39:19

this appointment and look at what it

39:21

says about the state of English coaching when St. George's

39:24

Park was opened in 2012, the chairman

39:26

at the time, David Sheepshanks, said

39:30

this goodness, he isn't a chairman anymore.

39:32

That would cause me all sorts of

39:34

problems over many shows. This is a

39:36

deliberately long term view, he said. Really,

39:39

it is the investment in coaches that

39:41

is crucial. And from 2020 onwards,

39:44

we will have winning England teams. Thoughts

39:46

of Andros and Rob after we hear

39:49

from Gary Lineker. It's a

39:51

long time since English coaches have won anything

39:53

in this country, so that itself says a

39:55

lot. We've always been a little bit behind

39:57

the rest of the world in terms of

39:59

tactics. because

40:01

we were kind of stuck in this

40:04

mire of long ball, direct

40:06

football, partly due to the conditions that we

40:08

played, but mainly due to the way we

40:10

taught our kids to play football. Nowhere

40:13

else in the world did they play full-size, small

40:16

kids on small full-size pitches. That

40:19

changed obviously a decade

40:21

or so ago and now we're producing

40:24

and we're getting the rewards of that because we're

40:26

producing some wonderfully gifted footballers.

40:28

The next level to that I think

40:30

is the coaching side of it and

40:33

we're starting to see some really

40:35

talented young English coaches, Eddie Howe

40:38

obviously at Newcastle, I don't know

40:40

whether they interviewed him, I heard

40:43

they didn't which would be

40:45

surprising, Graham Potter, Russell Martin, but

40:47

these are coaches now that

40:49

are actually trying to play out

40:52

from the back passing, they're more

40:54

tactically aware. At the moment they

40:57

didn't seem fit to

41:00

go for an English coach, I think Lee Carsey would

41:02

have fitted the bill perfectly, we've seen

41:04

in the last two major tournaments they've been won

41:06

by two coaches that have

41:08

not really coached teams from the

41:10

league, they've come through the system

41:13

and with De La Fuente

41:16

Spain and of course Scolone at Argentina

41:19

so I think

41:21

we have got the coaches but they've

41:23

probably not quite built the trust in them

41:25

enough for the FA to go we want

41:27

someone that's won trophies even though the last

41:30

two major tournaments have won by

41:32

coaches that had never won trophies

41:34

for four clubs. Interesting about

41:36

Lee Carsey you say would have fit the bill

41:39

perfectly, would you have chosen him? I would

41:41

personally yes. He won

41:43

the under 21 World Cup with a

41:46

lot of these players without even conceding

41:48

the goal. So he is

41:50

no question imaginative coach, whether he could handle

41:52

media side I don't think he

41:55

enjoyed that aspect of it, is

41:57

that absolutely essential to enjoy and come

41:59

over Brilliant in press conferences, probably not.

42:02

It's all about what happens on the pitch. But

42:05

they've decided not to go down that path.

42:07

I think he knew they weren't. Hence

42:10

his kind of statements like, hopefully I'll

42:12

go back to the under 21s. And

42:16

at the end of his last game

42:18

when they actually won the game quite

42:20

comfortably, saying, no, this job needs someone

42:22

that's won trophies. Andros,

42:25

you've played in different countries.

42:27

You're in Turkey at the moment. You've

42:29

played in different leagues. And

42:33

for a whole variety of different clubs over

42:35

many years. What do you think

42:38

the state of English coaching is? I

42:41

don't think it's as bad as what's

42:43

being made out currently. I

42:46

think for me,

42:48

my choice would have been Grandpa. I

42:52

know things didn't end well at Chelsea,

42:54

but having had the

42:57

pleasure or displeasure of playing against his

42:59

bright insights, man,

43:01

like they were one

43:03

of two of the toughest games

43:05

I've faced in a season

43:08

playing his bright insights. It was tough, tough

43:10

games away. He got an

43:12

average, I put quotation marks, an

43:14

average set of players to play

43:16

so well to control again, to

43:19

dictate the tempo, to make you chase,

43:21

to overload in

43:23

forward areas, to honestly,

43:25

I'm just really thinking about it now.

43:28

I generally thought that he would

43:30

be the best candidate, whether English or

43:33

foreign. Do you think if

43:35

he hadn't have gone to Chelsea, he

43:37

could be in the manager tonight? No,

43:42

because Chelsea has been a mess

43:45

for a few years, especially since

43:47

the takeover. It was a difficult

43:49

time, like we spoke about before.

43:52

Toucault himself lost his job

43:54

at Chelsea. Many

43:56

have come and gone and not succeeded at

43:58

Chelsea. I don't know. think that would

44:01

have gone against him. I think anyone

44:03

under power would have remembered his amazing

44:07

spell at Brighton and where he took them. So

44:09

I don't think that would have counted against him

44:11

but I just think for this

44:13

appointment at this time the

44:15

FA seemed to be just dead set on

44:17

having a winner and that's one

44:19

thing Grandpa hasn't done in England is

44:22

won anything. I think that ultimately that's probably

44:24

what went against him in the end. I

44:29

think with with Grandpa, I think

44:31

what did actually help him further

44:33

down the road was how Mauricio

44:36

Pochettino also found it very difficult

44:38

to get everything moving in the

44:40

right direction at Chelsea which he

44:43

eventually did but it took him

44:45

months and months and months but

44:47

I think it is still

44:50

a bit of a mark on his record Grandpa.

44:56

We talked about this when I was

44:58

commentating on the last weekend of the

45:00

Premier League when it was when it

45:02

was Everton against Newcastle and what a

45:04

rarity it was, what an unusual sight

45:06

it was to have two English coaches

45:08

in the technical areas in a Premier

45:10

League match and generally

45:14

they will have to get promoted

45:16

into the Premier League in order

45:18

to try and enhance their reputations.

45:22

Yeah we're going back to this you know

45:24

comparing it to the players and St George's

45:26

Park and that sort of thing and I think

45:28

it's a bit of a false commodity really

45:31

because we're talking about the

45:33

players improvement and the education structure

45:35

and that came in the academy process

45:37

came in in the late 90s

45:40

so we're talking over 20 years of football

45:42

in education the players who are playing

45:44

now won't have some of them won't

45:47

have been born when the

45:49

academy process came in so the coaching

45:51

process 2012 St

45:53

George's Park comes in now that's to get certificates

45:56

that's the qualifiers coaches then you go off and

45:58

do your thing This is day-to-day

46:01

education of players, not

46:03

day-to-day education of coaches. We're going to have

46:05

to wait 20, 20

46:08

more, something, a lifetime for these

46:10

coaches to come through. It's a

46:12

long, long process. Is

46:15

it, is it waiting a lifetime, Rob? Because

46:18

you could, they may be there,

46:21

but they're not, they're not getting, I

46:23

mean, Gary, Gary, in that interview, you

46:25

mentioned Russell Martin. Russell Martin is trying

46:27

to play what many people could perceive

46:29

the right way at Southampton,

46:32

whether those players can do it or

46:34

not is a different matter.

46:36

Russell Martin then sees, would

46:38

appear to, you could have a perception that

46:41

he's struggling at Southampton. Where's he, where's he

46:43

going to get another opportunity if he's moved

46:45

on from Southampton? It wouldn't necessarily

46:47

be a Tottenham, would it? Because then people

46:49

go, well, hang on to me. He didn't

46:51

succeed at Southampton. It's a, it's

46:53

a, it's a system that isn't giving young

46:57

English coaches the opportunities unless

46:59

they're abroad. Like Will Still,

47:01

who's at Lons, or Liam

47:03

Rossigna, actually, he was sacked

47:05

at Hull and he's,

47:07

he's now at Strasbourg, isn't he? I

47:09

think it's part of the Chelsea project.

47:12

Vincent company stuck to his guns and got a

47:14

job at Bayern Munich, but it's, uh, yeah, I

47:16

know what you're saying, but it's, I don't think

47:19

it's there yet. I don't think the

47:22

process is, is taking place. I don't

47:24

know whether it's the right process or

47:26

not. Clearly the education for the football

47:28

is in the way it's structured now

47:30

has helped bring this talent, this wealth

47:32

of talent to the fore for English

47:34

football. It's not done it for the

47:36

coaches yet. Well,

47:39

I think for, go on, go on. I

47:42

experience, I think players that

47:45

go into managers mirror the

47:47

managers that they played under, if that makes

47:50

sense. So for a, for

47:52

a whole host of time, like

47:54

Gary said, we were behind the

47:56

times in this country tactically. So

47:58

the manager, so the players that

48:00

turned into managers were sticking to

48:02

that 4-4-2, no real tactics, getting

48:04

behind them. Whereas now, like the

48:06

likes of Pep and Klopp and

48:08

all these head coaches have come

48:10

into our game, I

48:12

think when this generation of English

48:15

players retire, we will see

48:17

a better crop of managers because of the

48:20

managers they've played under. Does that make

48:22

sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But

48:25

Thomas Tuchel retired at 26 from

48:27

playing. He's now in his early 50s. That

48:30

is a lifetime of coaching. That is

48:33

how long it takes. Jurgen

48:35

Klopp was not a great footer.

48:37

Jose Mourinho, Arsene Wenger, all these

48:39

names that we put up in

48:41

the night. Yeah, but Rob, Thomas

48:43

Tuchel is part of a group

48:45

of German managers who were given

48:47

their opportunities through a pyramid

48:50

within the Bundesliga and Bundesliga,

48:53

Zwei and whatever else. Whether

48:55

that's Klopp, obviously, and

48:58

Tuchel and Nagelsmann, they

49:01

have tried to promote

49:03

their own. And they

49:05

had success. He had success at Mainz

49:07

and then went to Dortmund. And then

49:09

had success. Yeah, if you are successful,

49:11

you will succeed. And I

49:14

think you do need a pioneer. I think you

49:16

need someone to lead the way,

49:18

whoever it is. So who is it? Well,

49:21

I don't know. I mean, for example, if

49:23

Garris Southgate, for example, off the back of

49:25

what he's done, got a

49:27

big job, whether it's this country somewhere

49:29

in Europe and was able to then

49:31

be successful and

49:34

win, then that naturally enhances the

49:36

reputation of English coaches. But

49:39

let's say, I don't know,

49:41

maybe that's a rubbish comparison, but

49:43

let's say Hansi Flick hadn't gone

49:46

to Barcelona, but Hansi Flick

49:48

was on the market and Garris Southgate was on the

49:50

market. And I don't know,

49:52

Aston Villa were looking for a new

49:55

manager. Which

49:58

one? Oh, that's a rubbish example as

50:00

well. Southgate. Southgate's a former bit. I should have

50:02

thought of an example before coming on there. But

50:04

Southgate is a former bit. You want to say

50:06

Manchester United. Yeah, OK. All

50:08

right. We'll say Manchester United. Hansi Fligg

50:11

and Gareth Southgate were available. Right.

50:13

But both had, you know, had

50:15

their international experiences. Who do you

50:17

think they'd go for, John? Yeah,

50:19

well, we all know the answer to that because

50:22

of the trophies that he's won. Hansi Fligg. The

50:25

last English manager to win the European

50:27

trophy was? Hmm,

50:31

not Ron Saunders. Tony Barton.

50:34

No, Bobby Robson with Barcelona in 97.

50:36

So a bit after that. The

50:38

last English manager to win the league

50:40

title, Howard Wilkinson in 92. No

50:44

English manager has won the FA Cup since Harry

50:46

Redknapp in 2008. The

50:49

League Cup since Steve McLaren with Middlesbrough

50:51

in 2004. Since

50:54

2003, English managers have

50:56

taken charge of a combined total

50:58

of 44 matches in

51:00

the Champions League. Lampard

51:03

16, Frank Lampard 16, Redknapp

51:06

10, Grand Potter 7, Eddie

51:09

Hows 6, Craig Shakespeare 3,

51:12

Michael Carrick 1 and the

51:14

final one, Gary Neville 1. 44

51:19

matches in the Champions League since 2003. I

51:22

mean, they are stark stats,

51:24

Andros. When

51:27

you're reading like that, yeah, that's not

51:29

good enough. But you've reeled

51:31

off a number of names. You can't say

51:34

English managers in the last few years haven't

51:37

been given a chance. You mentioned Frank

51:39

Lampard, Steven Gerrard, Avila, Wayne

51:42

Rooney's. I

51:44

can name a few more, but chances

51:47

have been given. And

51:49

like you guys said, it probably

51:51

needs that one English manager to come

51:54

in and win the lot for more

51:57

English managers to start getting

51:59

trusted. and believed and

52:01

respected but like you said

52:03

until that happens nobody's

52:06

really going to respect English managers

52:08

over the foreign managers because of

52:10

what the foreign managers have come

52:12

over here and won and transformed

52:14

our game into. I

52:16

guess Eddie Howe would probably say that he feels

52:18

that he's a better manager for his experience of

52:21

being in the Champions League last season but then

52:23

of course he's not in it this season so

52:26

you've got to repeat and repeat haven't you to

52:28

get better and better. Let's

52:31

look at in the last six or seven minutes

52:33

about some of the issues

52:35

for Thomas Tuchel on the playing side of things when he

52:37

takes over in January. How

52:40

is he going to use Harry Kane? He was asked whether

52:42

he was going to be his captain today which he kind

52:44

of swerved. Obviously he

52:46

knows Kane from his time at

52:48

Bayern. I did not

52:50

speak to Harry,

52:53

I didn't speak to Gareth. Normally

52:56

I never do this to get my own feeling

52:58

for it and then get my own point of

53:00

view and let it sink in and reflect on

53:02

it so no haven't done it yet. It's

53:06

too early to answer these kind of questions.

53:08

You know how highly I think and feel

53:10

for Harry and how much I fought to

53:14

bring into Bayern Munich.

53:16

He is already on

53:18

his way to be a legend in English

53:20

football but now

53:22

I think it's also very important to

53:25

give the respect to Lee and the

53:27

upcoming camp in November to

53:30

take his decisions free

53:32

and without me interfering and

53:34

then we will

53:36

answer this question in latest in March. What

53:39

do you think his biggest issue is playing

53:42

wise with his playing squad Rob?

53:46

I think he's looking

53:48

at players he can trust that's a huge part

53:50

and he's got to find that out fairly quickly.

53:53

I think he played with Chelsea with

53:55

three at the back because he absolutely

53:58

loved Thiago Silva. that's

54:00

what he wanted and that's what he felt he

54:02

could rely upon was those with the two centre

54:04

halves around him he'd I don't think he felt

54:06

he could play as a two at the back

54:08

two centre halves at the back so

54:10

that balance of trust and what he feels

54:12

he needs to get in there and the

54:14

players that he has he's got to get

54:16

that feel and that sense and I talked

54:18

before about players more importantly probably he didn't

54:21

trust he needs to find that as well

54:23

and I think that's the key thing for

54:25

him is the ones that really sit

54:27

right with him and how he sees this team to

54:29

play. I think his biggest

54:32

test is he needs to make some

54:34

uncomfortable decisions fortunately we're in

54:36

a situation at the moment in this country we've

54:38

got so many good players to

54:41

choose from that 11 just isn't enough

54:43

and maybe in the past we've squeezed

54:46

players into positions that maybe not comfortable and

54:48

just to get him on the pitch but

54:50

I think he has to make the uncomfortable

54:53

decisions of sticking to his principles if that's

54:55

a three at the back or a four

54:57

at back and fitting the players in to

54:59

fit the way he wants to play rather

55:02

than changing his philosophy for these top players

55:04

that we do have in attacking areas. And

55:07

got to do that Andros right from the outset

55:09

yeah and if they're all available for the first

55:11

match whoever it is

55:14

go for it and do it do it there. 100% he's

55:17

got to lay down the marker straight away he

55:19

can't start

55:25

changing his philosophy and then all

55:27

of a sudden it doesn't work and he goes back to

55:29

what he wants to do he needs to lay down the

55:31

marker straight away and he's a big name

55:33

he's a proven winner so like we said at the top of the

55:35

show the players are going to listen to him so if he has

55:37

to for example drop a

55:39

Phil Foden, Phil Foden's

55:41

going to have to sit on the bench and that's the way

55:43

it's going to be because these players

55:45

can see the bigger picture as well which is what

55:48

they all want to do is win the World Cup

55:50

in two years time or 18 months time wherever it

55:52

is. Yeah and however

55:54

he sets his team up for that first

55:56

game doesn't mean that that is going to

55:58

be his nailed on star. starting 11 for

56:01

every game. Don't we all need to get

56:03

there for Andros a little bit more

56:05

grown up about this? Just because Phil Foden

56:07

is benched. What? Why are you laughing at

56:10

me, Rob? You're

56:12

sat there with your arms folded in a

56:14

big huff and ten hours to grow up.

56:16

I know. I'm not in a big huff.

56:19

But if Phil Foden is left out for

56:21

the first game, because I

56:23

don't know, it works better for Ante Gordon

56:25

to be on the left and Cole Palmer

56:28

to be as the 10. That might work

56:30

for whoever the opposition is in

56:32

March, but come a World Cup in 2026, when

56:35

you're trying to balance your squad and depending

56:38

on the opponents, then you might

56:40

have a slightly different personnel. That's

56:42

the beauty of international football with

56:44

a 26 man squad. It's not

56:46

about a first 11. Rob?

56:54

Well, I don't I

56:56

agree entirely with with the 26

56:58

man squad, but I do

57:00

feel that he's he's got to

57:02

hit the ground running. It is a sprint here. There

57:05

is no margin for error. It's

57:07

qualification and then you're into the

57:09

tournament. So yes, it can chop

57:11

and change, but it's

57:13

a short term appointment. It's a short term

57:15

thing. It's short term success and then see

57:18

where we are. So there's

57:20

there's there is that element. He can change, but

57:22

he's got to know himself. He's got to find

57:24

himself and he's got to find it quick. Even

57:27

as we were sitting in the auditorium there today

57:29

and he was talking about Harry Kane, Gary,

57:32

our producer showed me a post that had

57:34

come from Harry Kane. Welcome to the new

57:36

manager. Jeff Altman is a very shrewd

57:39

move. It actually says, I

57:41

actually said looking forward to playing under

57:43

the boss again. Yeah. Let's

57:46

put it laid down a marker. I

57:49

know two hasn't said he hasn't spoken

57:51

to Harry, but 100 percent Harry would

57:53

have been consulted. Before

57:56

they made the appointment, having had the

57:58

year with him by immunity. I know

58:00

Bayern have come out and said that

58:02

good luck England or something like that,

58:04

it was a disaster at Bayern, but

58:06

Harry Kane to give the C-Liver approval,

58:08

it's been as bad as what the

58:10

German press are making out. I

58:13

thought last year, on a number of occasions, last year

58:15

when we would go to Bayern

58:17

Munich, Thomas Tuchel would always say,

58:19

whenever he was asked about Kane, he would

58:21

always have a smile on his face and

58:23

say, yes, yes, we got your England captain

58:25

and took him out of the country. I

58:29

felt like same to him today, so the

58:31

tables have turned. But

58:35

for all the number

58:37

10s that are in this England squad, for all

58:39

the attacking talent, Rob, I mean, there are still

58:42

decisions, big decisions

58:44

actually for him to look at

58:47

and make. What he does at

58:49

Rybak, who's alongside Declan Rybak, what

58:51

happens left back,

58:53

how he uses his centre forward

58:56

with, you know, Ollie Watkins knocking

58:58

on the door. You would expect

59:00

that that central defensive partnership is

59:02

probably secure now with Mark Gae

59:04

alongside John Stones. But there are

59:06

question marks over certain positions in

59:09

this squad. And

59:11

it can move and it can change and I

59:13

think he'll have his own ideas and I do

59:15

think he will have his input in the next

59:17

two games as to who he wants to see

59:19

and how he sees about them. And he's

59:21

a smart man and he's a man

59:23

who will have watched so much football,

59:25

so much of what it's about, so

59:27

much of what England's about. He'll

59:31

have these predetermined ideas. He'll have, I

59:34

don't know how many names, 20 names already

59:36

of a 26 man squad, I

59:38

think, going into those qualifiers. Maybe not

59:40

the tournament, but this is my squad.

59:42

This is what I've got. And I'm

59:44

really, really going to nail it down

59:47

during these qualifiers. Rob, John, Andros, we

59:49

will leave it there. Good to have

59:51

you with us. More reaction and analysis

59:53

of Thomas Tuchel's appointments on the BBC

59:55

Sport website. And next on the Football

59:57

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