14:00

in charge of the English national team.

14:02

It's about getting the best manager for

14:04

the job. But just to pick up

14:06

on a point you made earlier, if

14:08

you're a, for example, Graham Potter, you're

14:10

one of the senior English managers, do

14:13

you think that they would be, it would be

14:15

understandable if they felt hard done by, if they

14:17

felt that a door had been closed to them

14:20

that maybe should have been open? Well,

14:24

no, because you've got someone who's

14:26

won a Champions League, who's

14:28

managed at a high

14:30

level and performed at a high level. Now, if

14:33

you just mentioned the name there, what you've mentioned,

14:35

Graham Potter, he's had a fantastic managerial career in

14:38

the rise that he's had. But when you look

14:40

back at his last job at Chelsea, yes, he'll

14:42

have learned a lot from it, but it's almost

14:44

like he needs to go back and rebuild himself

14:46

a little bit more. Thomas Tuchel

14:48

is, he's won at the top level. He's

14:51

won trophies at the top level. I

14:53

think from just to go away from that

14:55

point as well is, if

14:57

I'm an England international current and I

15:00

hear the name Thomas Tuchel is getting

15:02

the job, I'm excited by that because

15:04

I'm thinking straight away, this is a

15:06

guy who's tactically very good, who also

15:08

improves players, I

15:11

think doesn't have any allegiance towards any

15:13

players in any way because majority of

15:15

the Chelsea players that he had will

15:18

have left the squad by now. So he'll

15:21

know them and he'll obviously know their

15:23

attributes and what have you, I think

15:25

he will excite the players

15:28

coming in and looking at it

15:30

from a player's point of view, what do you

15:32

want them players? And I was the same, I

15:34

went to a World Cup and I was desperate,

15:36

I remember getting on the plane and

15:38

Jamie Carragher turned around saying, if we

15:40

win this, we come back as legends.

15:42

And that's what they're trying to retrieve

15:44

is a legacy to win something. They

15:46

don't care who's at the helm. Is

15:49

it, if as long as it's someone who

15:51

gets them over the line, who's got that

15:53

ability to tactically change a game, to see

15:56

games out towards the end when something might

15:58

need doing, but he's got... the ability to

16:00

do that, then the players will be happy.

16:02

The other thing I like about this appointment,

16:04

I was just thinking about it then is,

16:07

is he's got a sense of,

16:09

I don't want to cross him. And

16:12

you've got to have a fear factor when you

16:14

play for a manager in a certain way. You've

16:16

got to respect him and have

16:18

his respect, but also you've got to fear

16:21

him a little bit. So you don't step

16:23

out of line. So you know that there's

16:25

a boundary. And I think he's got that

16:27

in abundance. I think he's so good at

16:29

that, that side of it. He's

16:31

got that steely look, hasn't he? Which I

16:33

just would be petrified of at times, but

16:36

also knowing that he's a genius on the

16:38

other side of it. This

16:41

is the Football Daily Podcast.

16:43

With Kelly Kitz. Curls

16:46

in forward, disabled and chest in down. Welcome

16:50

to you'll never be Kyle Walker. Walker

16:52

is in on the challenge with him,

16:54

shoulder to shoulder. Walker, car hunters, brilliantly,

16:57

brilliantly. I'm Kyle Walker, man city and England

16:59

right back. And I'm Chris Hughes. And each

17:01

week, Kyle and I are going to kick

17:03

back and talk football. We'll

17:06

tell stories of the beautiful game, dig through Kyle's

17:08

footballing journey and find out what it takes

17:10

to win. A lot. That's

17:12

excellent. In the Walker, Walker scores.

17:15

From BBC Radio 5 Live, you'll

17:17

never be Kyle Walker. Listen on

17:19

BBC Sounds. This

17:23

is the Football Daily Podcast. With

17:25

Kelly Kitz. Let's

17:28

move on and get the European

17:30

perspective. We can hear now from

17:32

Bundesliga reporter, Archie Rintott, on how

17:34

it's all been received in Germany.

17:36

It's headline news, but I

17:39

think the bigger point is, is

17:41

how is Thomas Tuchel perceived? Because-

17:44

That was the next question. Yeah. In

17:47

the, he's not

17:50

viewed with the warmth and

17:52

the favorable eye that Jurgen

17:54

Klopp is in Germany. So

17:57

it's not like everybody's going to be

17:59

saying- are the team I'll be looking

18:01

out for after Germany at the next

18:03

major tournament will be England because Thomas

18:05

Tuchel is in charge. He's

18:07

never had that vibe

18:09

to him despite having managed

18:12

the two biggest clubs now

18:14

in German football. And

18:17

that's what makes it really interesting is I think

18:19

that he's not... he

18:23

didn't get the results ultimately at Bayern that

18:25

he would have wanted, but there were qualities

18:27

that were shown there which I think made

18:29

him attractive to the FA on top of

18:32

obviously winning the Champions League before with

18:34

Chelsea. So I think

18:36

that here it's obviously

18:39

a big headline, but

18:42

it's not got the same attraction to it

18:44

say as the Jurgen Klopp Red Bull story

18:46

for example. That I think has caused bigger

18:48

waves than this will. He's coming

18:50

into this new challenge at an international level

18:53

and one of the things that's been pointed

18:55

out about him across the

18:57

course of well really just today because that's

18:59

when the story has gained traction is that

19:01

he's very flexible

19:03

tactically as a coach and that might be

19:05

really well suited to international level. He

19:10

is, but he's also very much

19:12

got his ideas and

19:14

there's an approach that he

19:16

has and at Chelsea

19:19

it was successful. Bayern...

19:24

Nyeh, I would say. Because

19:27

he was accused of... his team

19:29

was accused of being boring in

19:31

January and when we

19:34

think about the discourse surrounding England

19:36

and it's let's play with the

19:38

handbrake off. So

19:40

I think that you can expect a

19:42

controlled but dominant kind of football that

19:44

he'll want to play. And

19:47

the question for me is with the

19:49

squad is he

19:51

will make tough decisions that I think

19:54

Gareth Southgate was trying to... where he

19:56

was trying to satisfy maybe too many

19:58

top players when you look at the

20:01

sides that he was picking in the

20:03

Euros. And I think that Thomas Tookle

20:05

will say... No names, Archie. Cole

20:09

Palmer, Phil Foden, Jude Bellingham, Bukayo Saka,

20:12

Harry Kane, do all of these players

20:14

fit in a side, I think is

20:16

the thing. And Thomas

20:18

Tookle will go, I'm going to make this

20:20

decision because I believe this is the right

20:22

way to do it. And I think that

20:24

he'll have less qualms about upsetting people, which

20:28

will be very interesting to watch in

20:30

both how that plays out in the

20:32

media in England and how that plays

20:34

out in terms of the squad dynamics

20:36

and how he gets players onside and

20:39

how he gets players to try

20:41

and accept that they're not going to have

20:43

the same star role that they

20:45

have at club level. That was

20:47

Arturin Tutt, former Chelsea and Scotland winger

20:49

Pat Nevin, former England international Stephen Warnock

20:52

and European football expert Julien Laurent are

20:54

here as well. Stephen,

20:57

is this what England needs? Someone

21:00

ruthless, someone unafraid to make difficult

21:02

decisions, someone who is very much

21:04

their own person. Yeah,

21:07

I think it might be a

21:09

little bit disrespectful towards Garret Selkate because

21:12

he will have obviously made

21:14

tough decisions within his managerial

21:16

career at England and admitted

21:18

players from squads, made

21:21

decisions in games. He was loyal to

21:23

certain players within games. I think that

21:25

was a frustrating part of the

21:28

fans looking at the team. He

21:30

is, he will have to make big

21:32

decisions and I think there's a lot of

21:34

talk at the moment around Harry Kane and

21:36

what his future holds at England. For

21:38

me, he's still the best striker that England have and he

21:41

should play. I think you've got to build

21:43

the team around him to make it work,

21:45

whether people agree with that or not, but

21:47

he's your natural goal scorer. But

21:50

he'll still have big decisions to make and

21:52

listening to Archie there. Archie obviously knows that

21:54

the Bundesliga so, so well has

21:56

watched how he plays his football, but I

21:59

just think there'll be a... different style with

22:01

this England team because he has got so

22:03

many attack minded players, exciting

22:05

players. I do

22:08

think tactically he's superb in

22:10

the way that he'll play. And

22:12

I think when

22:15

Archie talks there about this

22:17

style of football, if he

22:19

gets over the line, and I know this was a criticism

22:21

of Gareth, but he never got over the line. If

22:24

Thomas Tookle gets over the line, it's the

22:26

correct decision. And that's the be all

22:28

and end all of it. He will

22:30

be judged on tournaments and

22:33

winning tournaments. If he doesn't,

22:35

he'll just be another. And I don't like

22:37

to use that word because it shouldn't

22:40

be deemed that way, but it'll be deemed

22:43

a failure if he doesn't win trophies.

22:45

And that's just the height of expectation

22:47

of being the England manager. I

22:50

just wonder if the England manager's

22:52

job needs someone who

22:54

is politically astute in

22:56

charge. And Jules, when you look at

22:59

Tookle's time at PSG,

23:02

I wonder how you reflect on that

23:04

given the way the hierarchy works at

23:06

PSG. And you could almost say that,

23:08

you know, about his time at Bayern

23:10

with the Bayern board at that time.

23:12

And you could potentially say that at

23:15

Chelsea because it was in a time

23:17

of change that he was the coach

23:19

there. So particularly with

23:22

sort of reflection on PSG, what are

23:24

your thoughts on that? I

23:26

think it's a really smart guy to start with.

23:28

And I think like what Pat was saying earlier,

23:30

it's a very different dynamic with the national team.

23:32

You don't see your bus every day like you

23:34

do when you come to the training ground, maybe

23:37

not every day, but very often like

23:39

he did at PSG, Leonardo, who was a sporting

23:42

director then, who sacked him after that Fort new

23:44

wind just before Christmas. Happy Christmas, Thomas, by the

23:46

way. They would see each other every

23:48

day. Every day, the offices were next to each

23:50

other. You would see the PSG

23:53

hierarchy all the time after a defeat.

23:55

This is a very different dynamic again.

23:57

And I know all the listeners know

23:59

about it. but it's very different

24:01

not to go to the training ground every day

24:03

and see all of that and

24:06

be part of that. It's a very different

24:08

rhythm to it. And yeah, of course he

24:11

will have bosses from the

24:13

English affair, obviously. He's accountable for what

24:15

England are going to do, the result,

24:18

etc. Of course he does. But

24:20

it's a very different dynamic. And I think

24:22

he has learned a lot from being

24:24

in that difficult environment at PhD, because

24:27

you had all those egos, even at board level,

24:29

then Chelsea with the change of ownership, having to

24:31

deal with the Americans, top body especially, where he

24:33

struggled to understand, why are you talking football to

24:35

me? When you

24:38

don't know anything about football or soccer, the way you call it,

24:40

let me do my job. This is very

24:42

different again. And I think

24:44

it was interesting because

24:46

also there's the Monster United factor somewhere here.

24:49

In the summer he met them. Clearly he

24:51

was interested in the job. They were interested

24:53

in him. It didn't happen for whatever reason.

24:55

But there was the potential of him getting

24:57

a United job very soon. If that

25:00

hug is not the manager anymore.

25:02

And yet he clearly decided either

25:06

because there was still a party on the United, let's

25:08

not wait for it. I don't know. He might never

25:10

come. He might come. He might never come. Or maybe

25:12

he thought this England job right now is

25:14

much better than the United job or a

25:16

lot of other club coach

25:19

jobs. So I

25:21

think this is interesting because I think maybe he wants

25:23

a bit of that kind of break, not having to

25:25

deal with the Bayern, big bosses,

25:27

Oleonez, etc. because it's not easy not having to

25:29

deal with the Leonardo, not having to deal with

25:32

the top body. And he knows that with England,

25:34

and like a United for example, or another

25:36

club, Real Madrid, etc. which would have been

25:38

the same politics that you mentioned, Kells, and

25:40

the same relationship that maybe he

25:43

can't be himself, I think he's very different with an

25:45

England job or a national team coach job. Yeah,

25:49

and as you say, the fact that there is no transfer

25:52

issues to be sorted out takes

25:54

away one of those potential

25:56

bones of contention. The athletics David

25:58

Ornstein has just returned. reported that

26:00

his coaching staff will constitute both

26:02

selections from the FA and

26:04

from Tuchel himself. And he's also reporting that

26:06

there is a bonus in his contract for

26:08

winning the 2026 World Cup.

26:11

Let's take a look at some of the players.

26:14

I know, Stephen, you mentioned the importance of Harry

26:16

Kane as England's most natural goal

26:18

scorer. And of course, they have

26:20

the relationship from Bayern, where Kane

26:23

scored 45 goals in 45

26:25

games. He was asked

26:27

about the appointment of Thomas Tuchel and said,

26:30

look, until it's announced, I can't comment.

26:32

But I know him well. He's a

26:34

fantastic coach, a fantastic person. And

26:36

all of that bodes very well for Harry

26:38

Kane's future for England under the new manager.

26:41

No, it does because, and I think the

26:43

other thing that we have to take into

26:46

consideration here is Harry probably was asked about

26:48

Thomas Tuchel and about what type of

26:50

guy he is to work under and getting

26:53

a reference from someone who's worked with

26:55

him on a day to day basis

26:57

and understanding the ins and outs of

26:59

his personality, of his work ethic, of

27:01

his detail. And I don't

27:03

think that would

27:05

have been something that the board at

27:08

the FA would have bypassed. They

27:10

would have hundreds of percent spoke to

27:13

Harry about that. But from getting

27:15

Harry on the pitch with someone who knows how

27:18

to get the best out of him, that

27:20

is the interesting side. It will

27:22

be interesting to, I mean, I think it's

27:24

something that we'll all do because we want

27:26

to understand how he plays. And

27:28

I'll probably watch as many of the buying games

27:31

from his time in charge under Harry and see

27:33

what type of system that he played and how

27:35

he got the best out of Harry. Was

27:38

it with inverted wingers? Was it with wide

27:40

players? Was it playing Harry further up the

27:42

pitch and not asking him to drop as

27:45

deep? So they're all traits that

27:47

he will know about Harry straight away and how

27:49

to get the best out of him. And

27:51

now it's about getting the jigsaw pieces in

27:53

around Harry and making sure that he gets

27:55

those pieces right to get the best out

27:57

of him. So I think he'll be delighted

27:59

with it.