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Nandini Venkatraman (00:00) All right. Hi, everyone. Welcome to a very new and exciting episode of the EITF project. For this episode, we have someone who has a career that I've always wanted to have. You know, ever since I was little, I always dreamed of being a journalist, a creative content editor. And, you know, I've been very inspired by what our guest is doing because I've been following his work on LinkedIn. I've been looking at all his interviews. Without further ado, we have Tanmoy Mitra on the show. Thank you for joining us, Tanmoy. This is going to be a very interesting interview and informative for me as well. Thank you Nandini for inviting me for your project. I hope I can answer some of the questions you are going to throw out. Thank you for having me. Sure. Pleasure. So I'm going to dive right into the first question. This is one question that we ask all of our experts because we feel like it kind of shapes your career in a way when you start out. Our first question is what was your first job? And what is one thing that you learnt in your first job that you carry with you till today? Well, it's been a long time, Nandini. It's almost over two decades, 22 years probably. But yes, I remember I started as a web designer. Although I am a student of science, I always had an inclination toward journalism. But to get into mainstream journalism was not easy since I was not trained in journalism. And during those days, 90s, we had very few disciplines. If you know, it was science, arts, and commerce. That's about it. So my first job was with a digital business magazine called Domain B. Now the company is called the Information Company. So that was a company started by an ex -media person. husband and wife. I started there as a web designer and gradually I picked up journalism and writing and then you know things rolled on. But yes if there's a takeaway I would say it's work ethics. So that is something I am I could say I always carried it from right from my first job and it's still happening. So I would if I want to break down my work ethic it's commitment, sincerity and professionalism. That's an awesome answer. And you know, I can relate in a way a little bit because you said when you wanted to be a journalist, but you didn't really know where to start. It was the same for me. I think ever since I was little, I've always been like talking to people, getting questions out of them. My mom always says that you correct people before you talk. But one of the things for me was other than the usual visual communications degree that people usually ask you to go for right out of college, I didn't know what was the path to take to be a successful journalist. You see like the Barkha Dutt and you want to be someone like her and you want to travel the world and you want to like put yourself in those situations, but you never know where to start and you don't know what the path is going to look like. For someone in tech, right, that path is very clearly laid out for you. This is what you do. This is your next step and you know, compared to journalism. So compared to when you started out to compare to where you are, comparing to where you are today, there is a lot of change in times and things like that, right? So, did the usual visual communication degrees work back then and will they work today to have a career in journalism? Well, Nandini, it always helps to have a platform. Platform meaning when you have an education in a particular discipline and you plan to carry out in that same discipline as a professional. In journalism, if I was trained in journalism or maybe in arts or fine arts. I could have started right away. But then having said that, it's a theory or you can say it's a theory phase in your academic career. But when you start your work, it's the practical experience that actually holds. When you are hands on with something, that is the time you learn. So learning on the job is very vital. That is what keeps you going and you should always have that desire and inclination to succeed and you should always enjoy what you're doing that is the only way you're going to succeed so having said that yes definitely having studied in that discipline helps but then you can always choose a path if you have that determination and inclination like I said the interest you can always succeed it all comes down to the exposure you end up having and then maneuvering through the system to figure out, this is the type of journalism that I want to be doing, right? Like maybe investigation journalism or broadcast journalism or whatever. Right, right. So it's like I said, you know, you learn on the job, it's going to be difficult. There will be hurdles. Sometimes you may think that am I doing the right thing? But then you should have that desire. You should see the bigger picture. It's always... Like we say, although it's a cliche, the end of the tunnel, you know, there's always light at the end of the tunnel. But yeah, that's the fact. You know, with experience, I can tell you, if you have that desire, you know, you want to be something, you want to be there, you just go for it. I think it's common even in industries like tech or the industry that Nandini comes from, right? Because you end up saying, hey, school can teach you X, but when you come into the industry, the industry teaches you 100 X. And sometimes you feel like, what I, I didn't learn anything in school because I'm learning something completely different out in the industry, which is eye opening. And it is telling me the path I should in fact end up taking to get to where I want to be going. Right. Right. Absolutely. When I think back to my school days, there's like 2 % of what I learned in college that I'm actually using today. But like you said, getting hands on on whatever you're working, learning on the job is learning on the job. Learning from people around you, I think is very important. That's the right thing. You know, you put, I mean, you hit the nail. Learning from people around you, you should be curious and you should observe things. You know, that's one of the secrets I can share. Because you are a journalist, I was curious to pick your brains on. You see this new wave of independent journalists, like I see Faye D'Souza or Palki Sharma on YouTube having this wave. What has caused this whole new wave of independent journalists in digital media? And how is it affecting your mainstream media, quote unquote mainstream media, be it print or be it audio visual? How has it changed? And how are you looking at this change in landscape overall? So Karthik, very good question. The thing about any discipline, be it journalism or tech, you always need to innovate and learn. So there are lot of things you learn, you unlearn, you again learn it. But the thing is you have to be at par with the latest technology and what is happening in the world. I am very happy that you know nowadays there are so many courses for journalism, be it digital, print. But see there is a core value or core ethics or core learning that knowledge you get from journalism. It's about getting into the discipline and start working. then you can always find your product. Yes, print unfortunately is, I won't say dying out in India is happening because of our reading habits, but then print is expensive, it's difficult to sustain because of the cost involved, whereas digital, it's accessible, you can adopt easily, and you can reach out to the global audience with ease. So coming back to your question on the type of journalists or the dreams which we are seeing coming out of the mainstream, I would say that way. is it's fantastic and it's it's happened because of the kind of exposure people are getting the youtube the social media channels like instagram and linkedin is obviously a little bit i would say corporate but then you know there are new platforms like reddit and i mean new people are better equipped to talk about this than me but then you know the kind of exposure people are getting having a chance to hear people from different parts of the world, different cultures. So culture is also very important. So once you get a hang of different cultures, I mean that is a time when you can actually think of different perspectives. You can put yourself in shoes of someone else. For example, if you are communicating with a journalist in Spain, there is a deep rooted culture which they have and our culture. Then you get a different perspective towards things. So it boils down to, I would say, exposure. That is how people are learning and trying out new things. So I'm all OK for this new -age journalism. And that helps people like me to learn more things. We should always have the desire to learn. And that is going to keep you active in this field. Otherwise, you're going to fail out. That's a very good thing to bring up, right? That there are so many social media platforms that are open for people to learn from, to get exposed to. But I also feel like it's a two way conversation. Like now you also have like, if you're looking at an interview, you also have access to the person that you know, you're listening to, right? You can comment, you can, I mean, they may or may not see it, but you can at least put forward your voice and feel like you are part of that conversation. So I think. That is also one huge thing that has happened to journalism. You can read in the papers on earlier days, but if I have an opinion about it, there's no way that I can make it heard to the hundreds of readers that are reading it to start a debate or conversation. Sorry, Nandini, I just want to add one thing to this. Ultimately, as I said, the core ethics, that remains the same. There are basic steps which you do. That is, you start with the research. you study about your subject and ensure that you know you you the right information because ultimately your job is to present a correct information something that is ethical that is non -plagiarized your audience which is knowledgeable which will interest your audience so see those steps are you know these are steps which journalists have been following for hundreds of years so these won't change yes the style of getting the information, the speed, the technology, those things have changed, but your process remains the same. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you kind of just stepped into my next question and I'm glad that you brought up reporting, you know, correct information and things like that. Now that we're talking about social media, right? There are so many ways for people to comment and things like that. And with all the different movements going on, there is a need to be politically correct as well on what. journalist report, right? And most of the times when a journalist reports something, it's on change, it's on new things that are happening around you. How do you toe that line between being politically correct and also being correct in reporting on the information that's in reporting on the change that's happening around you? A very good question again. The thing about information is, as I said, as a journalist, it's your responsibility. to share information that is ethical as well as you know information that is vital or that is something that can be useful. I mean you take it anyway it could be useful for your audience. It could be something that will help them take some decisions. So your job is it's a very responsible job. It boils down to research as I said you have to be very thorough with what you are reporting. First you set your base on your research because nowadays Getting information is very easy. I mean there are multiple mediums. So all the more there could be a situation where you get information that will not be correct. So as a journalist, you learn that first thing is getting the right information and then you channel it down to that information that needs to go to your audience. Work ethics is something which it's the driving force. So from there if you break it down, you know, you talk about industry knowledge, that is something which is vital. So once you have the subject matter or you have to become the subject matter expert, so that is where you channelize getting the right information. Because nowadays getting information is very easy and there are more chances of getting wrong information because you don't know what is the source. So first and foremost your source if you are reporting has to be credible. because for example if you are doing a crime story your information comes from people you know it could be the police it could be some law enforcement agency it could be you know some stringer but you know you know these are people where you can get right information rather than just you know going on google and seeking out information from any unknown sources very very risky so you have to be very very clear about your subject. If you are not a subject matter expert, you can't be an expert in everything. You have to learn. So that is where I said research. Research is very, very important. You have to do a lot of study. So that is where you establish yourself as a subject matter expert. I won't say expert is obviously, it's a long shot, but you understand the subject. That is where it all starts from. So then you get the right information. then you break it down as per what is the requirement. Now politically correct obviously you have to be in a country like India, the kind of rules and regulations that have been put into the professional ecosystem you have to abide by those rules because this government is very strict and it's fine. I understand they have their own rules and you can easily work through those channels. It's nothing difficult. Yes there are certain adjustments you have to do but as I said if you know about the subject that takes care of 50 % of your work. So once you are thorough with your subject you know where to draw the line, where not to cross so that becomes easy. Then yes you have to as an expert or as a professional you have to draw the line whether you are politically correct or you are going out of it. Being a fearless journalist and staying within the code of conduct is something I'll appreciate. You know, that is very difficult to achieve, but you can. So as long as you are within the boundaries, it's fine. Ultimately, it's that information that goes out is crystal clear. And yet, you know, there is nothing untoward about it. I think, I think, I mean, doing your research also shows that you care, right? About what you report. You're not just like, you know, reading on Google and reporting like, you have a personal investment in what you are showing to your audience. Absolutely. As I said, journalism is called as a fourth pillar for nothing. Obviously, there is some meaning to it because your information is going out to the public and they are gaining that information. So it has to be something that is ethical, that is correct and that is not a misinformation. So you have that responsibility to ensure that things fall in line. So that is where you have to care. This is not something you, I mean, nine to five job, you do two stories and your day is over. You might stick to one story for one week for that matter, but then, you know, it has to come out right. You have to understand that the end of the day when the story is out, you know, yes, it's a job well done. So you talk about work I think. Yeah. So selfish question because I've followed. media for a while and every story has two sides to it, right? And it's all about perspectives. When you do research, how are you ensuring that bias doesn't creep in for you to take a side of a story that may not be favorable to your audience that you're trying to engage with? And so how do you ensure that you're always at the center? Right. Karthik, actually in a perfect scenario, it's always the best to be in the center. and take both sides. Yes, it's very crucial to hear all sides. It's not about two sides. There could be 10 sides to it. But at the end of it, you have to present it in a way where you have something for each stakeholder, be it it's the reader or someone who's helped you with the information. Because at the end of it, when you're presenting something, suppose it's a serious story as a crime story and you present it in a way which pleases the audience, but it affects the person whom you're talking about. So then that's not the purpose being served. So it's ideal to take the center stage, but it doesn't happen always. Sometimes you are inclined towards your readers knowingly or unknowingly. I won't say and I won't get into the depth of it, but it happens. So, but we always try to take the middle path where we ensure that it's, I mean, the core things have to be there, ethical. correct information and it's put down in a way where it doesn't hurt the sentiments of any parties. But then sometimes, as I said, knowingly or unknowingly, it happens. So it's tough. But then you try to hold the center. Yeah, you know, this feels like a behind the scenes of what really goes on in a like almost like I don't know if you've seen the morning show and this this is more interesting. Is that important in today's age to engage your audience? being in the same media space as you are, like you are in journalism, we are in more podcasting and video series and all of that. How is a very selfish question. Yeah. It's a super selfish question is can you take us behind your secrets of audience engagement? Because you do a lot of hard work, right? Everyone does a lot of hard work, but you want people to consume your content to be like, okay, I learned something new today. Or I got exposed to something that I didn't know existed in one corner of the country. So I'm just so curious because again, it's selfish because everyone's trying to engage with their audience and get more pull and all of that. So Karthik, I'll keep it crisp. Data always helps. Obviously, you know, at the end of it, it's the data that counts. How many people have viewed your story or the traction you call digitally and when it comes to newspapers, the number of copies that have, you know, that went out for sale or sold rather. You know, so these are the things that ultimately it's the execution. It's not the execution. It's the final result that counts. So data is very, very important, but then it's not everything. If you say planning, it's something, you know, that I would say, you know, there is, you have to leave it to your gut feeling at the end of it as a editor or as a decision maker. There are a lot of data and there are a lot of information or, you know, a lot of things you can gain on your table, but it's your gut feeling as a decision maker that. If there is XYZ, I have to pick one. I will go for that. Tanmoh, I feel like the time that we have with you is never going to be enough. This is such an interesting conversation. We can even have a series, I guess, about this. There's so many things going on in my mind. There are a few questions I want to ask before we end the interview. Not too many, just a couple. We've been doing this trend where our previous expert asks a question for the next expert. So the previous expert that we had on the show was Richard Salzman. He's a professor of political economy at Duke University and an entrepreneur for business forecasting. And his question to you is he asked two questions. And I think it's very, I mean, he didn't even know who we are going to interview next, but I feel like it's very relevant to you. How are you balancing all this with friends and romantic partners and recreation and things like that? Because we all know if we work too hard, if we work too much and we're not playing enough, so to speak, we're not going to be as happy. So if you need a question from me. to your next guest. Yes, I was gonna ask. It would be successful as you have been in commercial realm, and I'm assuming your guests have been. How do they balance and bring in the, call it the personal, romantic, friendship, recreation realm? I'm constantly dealing with the issue of, am I working too hard and not taking enough time off? But then when I take time off and I'm sitting on a beach, I think, well, this is kind of boring. I'm just sitting on a beach. So what's the point? And then I find myself during, you know, doing hand gliding or something like that, we do something active while we're doing those. So the balance thing interests me as well. I wonder if that comes up a lot. Good question. Again, balance is something which you desire for as a journalist. I mean, you have to be balanced in your work. I mean, that's the only thing I can say. It's happened over the years but yes, you know, you'll have to find your time out for your family because what happens is either generally, especially when you start young in your career, it's a lot of hard work. There are days when you'll have to stay in the office for days. I remember in 2008 when the terror attack happened in Mumbai, I was in the office for four or five nights straight. I mean, there was no break. But then, you know, these are the things you... You cherish it over the years. That time it was too much pressure or you thought that probably you won't be able to handle it. But then when you come out of it, you learn a lot. But then, you know, your family also understands. Thankfully, nowadays with the digital media coming in, it's not, I won't say workload has reduced. I mean, there is a lot of pressure always to perform and to get results. But then, you know, you have to give some time to your family and get... Get to your hobbies, whatever hobbies you have. For me, it's reading or catching up with some football match or going out meeting friends. So just stick to it and spend some quality time with your family over the weekend. If you don't have a weekend, probably do it sometime. But whenever you get a chance, I would say it's very difficult to say for a journalist, don't mingle your professional life with your family life. It always happens because you have to take calls at home. But then your family also understands. So support from the family is very, very important. The support system is very important. And equally at work, you should always be around positive people. See, positivity is very, very important. So I would say that you always have a positive mindset. Things will be easier. It's tough. There is that one more thing you have to achieve professionally. So that drives you. But then when you have an understanding family, you know, you they have your back. So that's that's that's very important. Have a good positive ecosystem around you and always be positive. Yes, I've been able to find some time with my family. I mean, nowadays, you get weekends, but then they understand so things have been easier. Yeah. And His second question, and I think this really ties into the first question. And I'm so glad that you are the next expert I'm asking this all to because it makes more sense. Would you ever retire? I can never retire. I can't think of it. You know, this is something, see, a professional demanding occupation like sports. Obviously, you know, you physically, you can't exceed beyond certain age. But your mind is still sharp. So. For example, these cricketers or football players, when they are out of their professional journey as a player, they contribute in other ways. They become coach or they become experts because their brain and their instinct, everything is on that sport. So you just can't leave it. I mean, it's very difficult. So for me, even if I have to retire formally from any organization, say at the age of 60 or 58, whatever. But that's just retirement from that organization. I can never need journalism. As I said, I'll retire from life. That's when my innings is going to end. That obviously, touch wood, physically and mentally I'm balanced, things will be OK. But then that is how you do it. It's true. And it's a learning process. You are a student for your entire life. I mean, it's fabulous what people, senior citizens learn. They contribute, you know, I mean, obviously aware the kind of stories we see, which is really sensational and which is really heartwarming, you know, so I mean, I will never end my journey like this. So it's going to continue and I hope to contribute much better way. So it's always a scope for improvement. That's a great answer. I don't see myself retiring as well. And I thought that that was a really great question to ask as well, because it really makes you think about it. So I'm going to ask you our last question and then I'm going to ask if you have any questions for our next expert. All right. So the last question that we always ask everyone is something that Kartik and I came up with when we first started the EITF project. And it's very interesting how everybody answers this question. So it's nice to go back and look at the... different ways that people have answered this. What is your definition of success? Success is if I have to break it down into I would rather break it down into few more steps. For me, success is that gives joy to other people around you, be it professionally or in your personal life. Success is fame. Obviously it's fame. You know, that's something that gives you recognition. Success is your overall contribution to the society that helps in improving things. These are... few things I can think of. That's a great answer. I think at the end of the day, you are part of a larger community wherever you are contributing to it is very, very important. So thank you so much for joining us. And can you give us a question that you want to ask our next expert not knowing who they are? Thank you, Karthik and Nandini. It's always good to be doing something which you're not usually doing so. Fantastic experience. Well, my question to your next guest is what is professionalism and being a professional, what do you think is your duty to your society? I think it's a long question, but then nevertheless, I think you'll have some conversation. no, I think it's a great question. Now, I think I know who my next expert is. So now I'm very curious to see how he's going to answer this. Yeah. Thank you so much for. joining us Tanmoy. This was a great, great interview and I love turning the tables on you. And yeah, I think it's like it's great to talk to people who usually ask the questions. It was it was fantastic. Thank you very much.