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To learn more, visit accountableforhealth.org. Lemonade.

1:16

If this is the weekly, daily,

1:18

or hourly reminder you need to

1:21

make sure you're registered and planning

1:23

to vote, then please allow me

1:25

to register and make

1:27

a plan to vote. Why?

1:31

I don't know, because I said so. Need

1:33

another reason? Or, okay, how about

1:35

today, I say, because of the environment.

1:39

I shouldn't have to still explain to people

1:41

that it's important that we care that our

1:43

planet remains, you know, somewhat

1:45

habitable for us and our children and

1:47

generations to come. Our

1:50

planet shouldn't have to be the,

1:52

this is fine, meme, every

1:55

damn day. So I have some serious

1:57

choice words for the people who think climate change

1:59

is isn't real, who don't

2:01

care that we just had a hotter summer

2:04

than the year before. And we could probably

2:06

expect that next summer will be even worse.

2:08

Or maybe this summer will just never end.

2:10

And next summer will just be summer

2:13

2024 2.0. Oh

2:16

my God. So allow

2:18

me to remind you that

2:21

while in office, Donald Trump rolled back

2:23

more than 100 environmental protection

2:26

rules. He also pulled the US

2:29

from the Paris Climate Agreement. And

2:31

you bet Project 2025 has

2:33

something to say about what the Environmental

2:35

Protection Agency should be focusing on. Or

2:37

rather, if it should even exist,

2:40

it simply makes

2:43

me burn up with rage, unlike the

2:45

planet, which is burning with fossil fuels.

3:01

This is Choice Words. I'm Samantha

3:04

Bee. My guest today is actor

3:06

Shailene Woodley, who you know and

3:08

love from Big Little Lies, The

3:11

Fault in Our Stars, The Descendants,

3:13

If You're My Kids, The Divergent

3:16

Series, and the forthcoming Three Women.

3:19

She's also a climate activist, even though

3:21

she doesn't necessarily love that title. And

3:23

we talk a lot about how we

3:25

can all make easy choices to better

3:27

the planet. So take a

3:29

listen and make good choices. Oh

3:35

my God. It is. I'm so

3:38

excited that you said

3:40

yes to doing this podcast. I can't even tell

3:43

you. I was thrilled. Of course. I said yes.

3:45

I'm so excited to talk with you. God.

3:48

We met. Just like for people who were

3:50

listeners of the podcast, we met just a

3:52

couple of months ago, really, at an

3:56

event at a beautiful conservation.

4:00

like deep in the environmental movement. And we were

4:02

gonna talk about that, but you go all over

4:04

the world on grand

4:06

adventures doing athletic

4:09

things and diving into

4:11

waters and

4:13

doing all of this like- Athletic

4:15

things, I guess it's true. Oh,

4:17

it's true. Meeting

4:21

people all over the world, saving the

4:23

world. I like to talk about the

4:25

choices that people make in life. And

4:27

I feel like you

4:29

are the exact person that I wanna

4:32

talk to because when I read

4:34

articles about you, interviews with

4:36

you, or I see them, you're

4:38

incredibly thoughtful about the choices that

4:40

you make, the path

4:42

that you take, you're so open

4:44

and really vulnerable.

4:46

And I think it's really cool. So

4:49

what is it like for you to

4:51

make a choice

4:53

in life? Like a big one. Are

4:55

you good at, do you embrace that?

4:58

Are you like, ooh, let me get

5:00

into it. Are you terrified? No,

5:03

I mean, I'm always terrified,

5:06

which is why I do it. Okay.

5:09

I think choice is actually

5:11

the greatest freedom we

5:14

have on this planet as humans. It's

5:16

kind of the only thing we have

5:19

in some ways because we live in these

5:21

like structures and these systems and these institutions

5:23

and choice is really

5:25

the compass that

5:28

allows us to navigate a

5:31

life that can be a life well-lived or

5:33

a life well juiced. And

5:37

for better or for worse, I've always had this

5:39

sort of insatiable quality

5:41

that I just, I wanna

5:43

know everything about the human experience. I wanna

5:45

like taste it and smell it and feel

5:47

it and live it and cry about it

5:49

and grieve about it and be angry about

5:51

it and be joyful about it. And choice

5:54

has been that the opportunity for

5:56

me to understand what all of those qualities

5:58

can look like and feel like. I guess

6:01

I am terrified of big choices, but I

6:03

always make them. It's funny

6:05

that you said the word juiced because

6:07

actually when I think about you, I

6:10

think you are the type of person who gets

6:12

all the juice out of the orange. You're

6:16

squeezing the haydew. Oh,

6:19

God, I do. And let me tell

6:21

you, Sam, sometimes it's meaningful to get

6:23

all the juice out of an orange.

6:26

Yes. Sometimes you're left with

6:28

a dry husk and you just

6:30

go, I'll compost it and I'll make something good

6:32

with it. Exactly. Right?

6:35

At least it smells good because it's

6:37

citrus. At least it's fragrant. It's beautifully

6:40

fragrant and cleansing. How do

6:42

you make, how do you deliberate? Like if you

6:44

have to, if you're faced with a big, like

6:46

a big career decision or something like that, how

6:48

do you attack it? Do you just let it

6:50

sink into your bones for a little while? Do

6:52

you deliberate or do you just dive in? Do

6:55

you like strap on a single

6:57

fin and like dive to the bottom of the ocean?

7:00

Sometimes it's an instant, yes. And

7:02

then what it is, I fight. I

7:05

fight and I do everything I

7:07

can to protect that instant, yes,

7:09

because I feel like that's

7:11

such a rare treasure when

7:14

there is that instant dual sort of butterfly

7:16

explosion in the bodies and then the

7:18

cells and every part of me, I

7:20

can't sleep. I can't do anything

7:22

because I'm obsessed with the instant, yes. And

7:25

then when it's not an instant,

7:27

yes, instead of reminding myself, oh, this

7:30

is probably a no because I'm not

7:32

getting all of those feelings. Okay.

7:34

I sit and I deliberate and I freak out and

7:37

I call. I really, I

7:39

really lean on my people. I'm

7:41

very lucky to have a tight

7:43

group of people that I trust

7:46

implicitly. So I'll lean on them and I'll kind of

7:48

pick their brains a little bit. And

7:50

then I try to give it as much time as I

7:52

can. And now

7:55

I'm in a new phase of life where I

7:57

really value my peace. I

8:00

value my center, if

8:02

there's a decision or a choice that's giving me

8:05

anxiety, now I try to remind

8:07

myself that that's probably a no. Even

8:10

if it's sexy, even if it's

8:12

enticing, even if it's something delicious

8:15

that could come out of that choice, if there

8:17

is an unrest in me, I try

8:21

to listen to that as much as I

8:23

listen to the full blown yes.

8:26

You do talk about butterflies. You

8:28

either get butterflies or you don't, but

8:30

like, have you ever said yes to

8:32

something? And then you were like, I

8:35

can't do it. I'm

8:37

so freaking out. That's

8:40

happened to me in relationships. That's happened to

8:42

me in my career. That's

8:45

happened to me in choices I've

8:47

made about where I want to live or how I

8:50

want to live. And

8:53

it's so disruptive and it's

8:55

so unnecessary that I

8:57

try to protect myself at all

8:59

costs from doing that anymore.

9:02

But I still do it constantly. Oh,

9:04

constantly. But it's good. It's like one of

9:06

those I often talk to people about

9:08

learning how to say no to things, which

9:11

I feel like I learned it from reading

9:13

an article about Oprah. She

9:16

was like, you have to learn how to say no. Are

9:19

you good at that? I'm really

9:21

good at saying no unless I'm

9:24

unclear. Sometimes I find,

9:27

for better or for worse, again, I have

9:29

a really strong moral. My values

9:31

are very strong and I think I'd

9:33

have very high integrity. And

9:35

so every now and then if I'm in a

9:38

situation that compromises my personal idea

9:40

of what is right or wrong

9:42

or morally correct, but

9:44

there's that kind of artist side of

9:47

me that's a glutton for human desire,

9:49

experience, whatever. If I'm in

9:52

that situation of questioning my

9:54

connection to my integrity or my connection

9:57

to my desire to juice life, I

10:00

can not know how to say no. And I

10:02

get stuck in my throat and it's such an

10:04

uncomfortable, it's such

10:06

an awful feeling. Awful. Can

10:08

you think, just the

10:10

kind of looking back, is there a choice

10:12

that you can think of that you made

10:14

that really impacted your life in a way

10:16

that maybe you didn't necessarily expect or something

10:19

that had, even a

10:22

small choice that had these big wild

10:25

reverberations? Yeah.

10:27

I mean, two massive things stand out to

10:29

me. One was when I was 19, I

10:31

had this film come out called

10:35

The Descendants and I'd been acting

10:37

for 13 years at that point and it was

10:39

the first time that Hollywood really

10:41

came into my awareness. Because up until then,

10:44

it was just like this fun thing I

10:46

would do and then I would leave and

10:48

go back to the suburbs and hang with

10:50

my friends and go camping. And

10:52

suddenly I had studio execs and people around me

10:54

being like, you need to dress more cosmopolitan, you

10:56

need to do this, you need to do that.

10:59

And I was like, bitch, I'm 19. I

11:02

want lovers. I want to see the world.

11:04

I want to know things. I don't want

11:06

to dress cosmopolitan. What does that even mean?

11:09

It was disturbing to me and my

11:11

reaction to it was to get rid

11:13

of everything I owned and moved to

11:15

Europe. Actually, that's when I moved to

11:17

Hawaii. I moved to Hawaii first and

11:19

then I moved to Europe and

11:21

for 10 years, I kind of just lived out of

11:24

a carry-on suitcase and when I wasn't working, I would

11:26

meet somebody on a train or in a hostel and

11:29

I'd ask if they wanted to learn English

11:32

and in exchange they could teach me their

11:34

language and I would do their dishes and

11:36

I just lived with strangers for almost 10

11:38

years and it was wildly

11:41

informative and shaped

11:43

so much of who I was. And

11:46

I didn't know at the time, to me

11:48

it was normal. I was like, why isn't

11:50

everyone trying to do this? And

11:53

if I didn't have money or if I was

11:56

struggling financially or whatever, I would

11:59

pick up a skill. I've washed dishes

12:01

for a few months between

12:03

things. And I think it

12:05

expanded my view of

12:07

not just European life or

12:10

Fijian life or all

12:12

these other places I lived, but it helps

12:14

me understand American life in a lot

12:16

of ways. So that was a big

12:19

one. And then in 2016, I made

12:21

a series of choices politically, and

12:23

there was this movement about a

12:25

pipeline on Native American

12:28

resolution. And I was out

12:30

there for almost a year and

12:32

heavily involved with the community there.

12:34

And afterwards, when you

12:36

said, did I make a choice

12:38

that I didn't expect what would

12:41

happen, I suddenly became this person

12:43

that everyone thought of as an

12:45

activist or an environmentalist. Right. And

12:48

I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm not

12:50

any of those things. I'm just like a

12:52

girl who cares and happened to stumble into

12:54

this situation. This wasn't something I sought out.

12:56

It was something that kind of found me.

12:58

And here I am. And tomorrow,

13:01

I might be somewhere else. And

13:03

tomorrow, I might devote myself to something

13:05

else. And that shook my nervous system

13:08

a lot, kind of having, again,

13:10

the world look at me in a

13:12

way that I didn't choose, but in

13:15

sort of this label that was a

13:17

label I didn't identify with. Isn't

13:19

that so funny that it's so true that I

13:22

think people in the world writ large

13:25

is so much happier if they can

13:27

just call you a thing and pigeonhole

13:29

you in an exact way that makes

13:31

sense that they can order it in

13:33

their brains. Yeah.

13:36

And I look around and I'm like,

13:38

yo, why are we all performing? I'm

13:40

so tired of the performance. And

13:43

I think the label is a part of

13:46

that performance. It's like if I can understand

13:48

you as this one thing, then

13:50

you're safe. Because

13:54

I don't have to accept

13:56

that you're a complex, multilayered,

13:59

emotional being. Hollywood was

14:01

like, we're gonna make you this. Now

14:03

you're gonna get fancy. Now we're gonna make sure,

14:05

like, now we're gonna put you through the rigors

14:08

of this, like, Hollywood washing machine,

14:10

like this, this, like, spin cycle

14:12

that we put young women on,

14:14

young actors, really. And

14:17

you were like, fuck you. I'm gonna go

14:19

be a dishwasher for a while. It's

14:22

a rare quality, actually, to know yourself that

14:24

well at the age of 19. How do

14:26

you account for that? Or just, were you

14:28

like a child who was born and just

14:30

knew yourself? Or did that

14:32

develop over time? I think

14:34

I was, I was definitely a child who knew

14:37

myself. I had a pretty

14:40

intense childhood. I had a

14:42

lot of unusual, extreme

14:45

situations that I went through as

14:47

a child outside of acting, outside

14:49

of the industry. And for me,

14:53

acting was sort of the only, it

14:55

was the, in a lot

14:57

of ways, I think it was the thing that sort

15:00

of saved my life. Like it

15:02

gave me this outlet to be

15:05

a free being.

15:07

And so when suddenly

15:09

Hollywood tried to

15:11

take that away from me, it

15:14

was like this pierceness in me

15:16

of going, hell no, this is

15:18

my thing. This is my joy.

15:21

This is my craft.

15:23

But I never looked at it as some

15:25

artsy fartsy thing. It was really like a

15:28

lifeline that I wasn't aware of

15:30

as a lifeline until later on

15:32

in life. But when

15:35

that was threatened to become something

15:37

else, I got angry.

15:40

And it was like that rebellion in me

15:42

of going like, fuck you for trying to

15:44

steal the thing that makes

15:46

me feel alive. And the way

15:48

that I reacted to that was

15:50

I'm going to go search for

15:53

other things that make me feel

15:55

alive. That is really

15:57

powerful. You're like, safe

16:00

thing. This is my thing. Yeah, you can't alter

16:02

it. It was fun. Like the

16:04

one beautiful I mean, my parents did a lot of

16:06

beautiful things. But one of the beautiful things they did

16:08

was as a child actor,

16:10

I had three rules. I had to stay

16:13

the person they knew I was I had

16:15

to have to go to school and I

16:17

had to have fun. And I love that

16:19

they included the fun piece of it because

16:21

it was always and is always fun. And

16:24

never became this like agonizing

16:26

I'm an actor, I'm an artist, I have

16:28

to drown in my own,

16:30

you know, pain in order to survive.

16:32

And it was a joyful

16:35

expression instead of something that

16:37

felt agonizing. Right

16:39

or like a necessary expression or something

16:42

like because I'm thinking about what

16:44

I've read about three

16:46

women and the way that you talk it feels like it

16:48

was like a necessary for you to do. Yeah, maybe

16:51

a difficult and like a

16:54

like difficult and raw. I've

16:56

always been obsessed with desire,

17:00

sexuality, because it's such

17:02

a suppressed subject

17:04

in our culture. And yet it's everywhere.

17:06

It's it's like the bacon hanging in

17:09

front of the dog, but the dog

17:11

never really bacon. And then living in

17:13

Europe for so long and seeing how

17:15

erotic Europeans are simply by existence.

17:18

It's they don't try. They're just

17:20

very much in their bodies. And

17:22

they're very free. And they're very

17:25

it's a it's a different way

17:27

of relating to self. I

17:29

just I look at, at our

17:31

culture and the women in our culture and you

17:34

know, the family that I come from and, and

17:36

the things that I have been through that are

17:39

so corrupt and don't

17:41

need to be. And so

17:43

when I when I read three women

17:45

and when I met Lisa, I felt for the

17:47

first time like there was an opportunity to tell

17:50

a story that's that every

17:52

woman can relate to and also men

17:54

whether they choose to open their eyes

17:56

to relate to it or not. Like, these

17:58

are common themes. These are

18:01

not strange esoteric ideas

18:03

about female psychology. And

18:06

it did feel like a necessary thing

18:08

to to bring to the screen. Isn't

18:10

that so funny when you go like I

18:13

will never forget going to like

18:15

a European beach for the first time. Yeah.

18:18

In my in my one

18:20

piece bathing suit, like North America,

18:22

like Canadian, right? Just like so

18:24

everything's covered. Yeah, just like zinc

18:27

on the face like a

18:29

big calf town and all

18:31

the women are just

18:34

like in just the bottom of

18:36

a bikini smoking. Yeah, drinking wine,

18:38

drinking wine. And they're like, and

18:40

their kids are like off doing

18:42

whatever they're like, bye. And then

18:44

and they're having like this, such

18:47

a great normal relationship with their bodies.

18:49

And then they just like bend over

18:52

into the cooler to grab a sandwich

18:54

and their asses in your face. Yeah,

18:56

like, I don't care. You're like, oh,

18:58

wait, I'm

19:01

the problem. Like I'm the weirdo.

19:04

Right, but it's all like we're

19:06

the weirdos because we're not hot

19:09

how to be safe

19:11

in our own bodies. Because every example

19:13

around us says the body is not

19:15

a safe place to be. And

19:17

so it's so many mixed signals constantly.

19:19

And then you add like, porn and

19:22

societal pressures, all of the things that

19:24

are around and as Americans

19:27

and now a social media and technology

19:29

it really is every day. It is

19:31

a you have to make a conscious decision to

19:34

connect because intimacy is

19:36

unfortunately a fleeting thing.

19:38

It's it's going. We'll

19:43

be right back after this. It's

19:51

very important to take time

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to relax a little time

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21:35

hear stories from the production designers,

21:37

set decorators, and visual artists who

21:40

crafted these legendary spaces. For instance,

21:42

the team behind True Detective Season

21:44

1 spent nearly a year collecting

21:46

the perfect pieces to set that

21:49

eerie tone. And on

21:51

the Gilded Age, their meticulous research into

21:54

1800s interiors even led the

21:56

writers to create a brand new character. It is

21:59

a must- listen for anyone curious

22:01

about the magic that goes into

22:03

creating TV's most memorable settings. And

22:06

I know I'm excited to dig

22:08

into the episodes on Game of

22:11

Thrones. Those sets are just gorgeous.

22:14

Listen to Onset with Unmax or wherever

22:16

you get your podcasts. I

22:24

think often about the themes that are

22:27

emerging in this conversation. Like, just

22:30

when you think back to like the

22:32

career trajectory of Britney Spears is like

22:34

a perfect example that just like everyone

22:36

was just obsessed, like openly obsessed with

22:38

her virginity. So they both

22:40

want to portray her very sexually

22:42

at a young age, but they also

22:44

need to know that she's

22:47

like sexually pure. And it was

22:49

like the most, I

22:52

mean, it's psychotic. It's like

22:54

any sense. It's

22:56

psychotic. Yes.

22:58

And that was so long ago. And I just

23:01

don't think things have changed all that much. No,

23:03

they haven't. I mean, there's all these statistics

23:05

too about young kids are having less

23:09

sex and touching each other less

23:11

ever before. And it's

23:13

interesting as I think a

23:15

lot about religion and institutions and

23:17

as they are sort of changing,

23:19

I think people are

23:22

less religious maybe now than they were

23:24

in the 90s during the

23:26

Britney Spears rise. And as

23:29

those things are changing, there's this new kind

23:31

of counterculture of being

23:33

like highly offended by everything and

23:35

the cancel culture thing. And I

23:39

think young people just don't know where

23:41

to be. They don't know like

23:43

how to find, there's no example of

23:45

a center of having a

23:47

connection outside of society in a

23:49

way. And so that I

23:52

think adds also to the pressures that

23:55

also exist in the sexual

23:57

sphere of having to be perfect,

23:59

having to look a certain way to perform

24:01

a certain way. And man,

24:03

oh man, it really breaks my heart. I

24:05

mean, where you can actually meet people in

24:07

real life is so it's like vital. It's

24:11

vital. And I do think that

24:13

there will be like in subsequent

24:16

generations, we're all going to

24:18

learn these lessons. And at some point, maybe

24:20

not exactly my children's generation, but

24:22

the generation after they're just going to throw

24:24

off the yoke of certain

24:27

types of technology, I think and just be like,

24:29

I don't, I don't use that. That's

24:31

like, even my children's

24:33

generation are a little bit like, this is

24:35

my brain is frozen. I'm going to walk

24:38

away. It's very

24:40

healthy. So I want to talk

24:42

about three women a little bit more because it's

24:44

such a great, it's a beautiful, vital,

24:48

interesting book. And

24:51

I love that this adaptation has

24:53

been made. She's also

24:55

the executive producer of the show adaptation.

24:58

Okay, so the character of the

25:00

book is a journalist somewhat based on her,

25:03

somewhat based on Lisa, is it what's it

25:05

like to play someone sort of who you can

25:07

talk to in real life? Is

25:10

that is it harder or

25:13

better? I think if it wasn't

25:15

Lisa, it would be harder. But because okay,

25:18

and because she and I have some

25:21

kind of otherworldly cosmic connection,

25:23

it really felt

25:27

quite easy. All

25:29

of the stories, most of the

25:31

stories that Gia goes through plot

25:33

wise are realistic and truthful to

25:35

Lisa's personal history. But the

25:37

person that Gia is and the way that we

25:40

talked about bringing her to life and

25:42

different characteristics and mannerisms are not reflective

25:44

of Lisa. And so there is, there

25:47

is some truth in parallel. And then there is

25:49

a lot of fiction in there so that it

25:51

felt yeah, so Gia felt authentic. And Lisa

25:54

and I strangely have been through a

25:56

few similar things in life. And so

25:58

that also, helped kind of

26:01

shape the narrative of how

26:03

Gia was going to be elicited.

26:05

And I just, it was incredible

26:07

to play Lisa because she's such

26:10

a creature of truth. For all

26:13

of the truth and the breath

26:16

that she gives other people, she really

26:18

allowed herself to be vulnerable with this

26:20

show and specifically with the Gia character

26:23

because it is her truth.

26:25

It is her history. And that

26:27

is, wow, that's so vulnerable, I think. I

26:30

think I was watching an interview

26:32

with her and she said something

26:35

that I thought was so poignant,

26:37

which is that women are allowed

26:40

to talk about what they don't

26:43

want, but they're not really allowed

26:45

to talk about what they do

26:47

want. And that

26:50

felt really real to me.

26:53

That really resonated for me.

26:55

Yeah, she's so good at

26:58

that, man. She really knows how to

27:00

nail the little sound like- She nails

27:02

it. It's so

27:04

true though. It's so true. You

27:07

know, I'm single at the moment. I'm very

27:09

single. And my friends

27:11

have been like, write down the

27:13

five and 10 or write down the things that you want,

27:15

the qualities that are that's manifest. And

27:18

I wrote down, I couldn't, I'm an extra person.

27:21

So what was supposed to be a list of

27:23

five qualities turned into a 30-page poem. And they

27:25

were like, surely you need to narrow it down

27:27

a little bit. And

27:30

it's not so much writing. They're

27:32

like, actually, we're going to amend

27:35

our suggestion to you. And so

27:37

now it's just two pages. But

27:39

even in that, I have people

27:41

go, this is such

27:44

a silly anecdote. But they're like, you can't have

27:47

all those things. And

27:49

I'm like, what do you mean? I

27:52

want those things. I can have those things. And by

27:54

the way, I am those things. I am all of

27:56

these things as well. And so that's a

28:00

Silly, very surface level

28:02

example, I think, of what you just

28:04

said, but it's this idea that the

28:06

minute that you start dreaming of a

28:08

life that is actually the life that

28:10

you want to live, we're

28:12

immediately told as women, no,

28:15

you can't have that. It's

28:17

too impossible. Your ideas

28:19

are too grand, or

28:22

you're asking for too much, or whatever

28:26

the negative no is, it pisses

28:30

me off, to be honest. Yeah,

28:32

they're like, actually, looking

28:34

over your list, you're allowed to have seven

28:36

out of the 10 things that you want.

28:39

It's just wild though. I mean, even as a

28:41

mom, it's like so many women

28:44

still are told to work

28:46

and be a mom and be a

28:48

partner and be an artist

28:51

or be a creator, whatever you might

28:53

want to do, there are

28:55

all of these restrictions on how you're

28:57

supposed to do it instead of just

28:59

going, dude, I have a skin suit

29:01

on, I am alive, there are cells

29:03

in my body working miracles and I

29:06

want to be this today and

29:08

tomorrow I might change my mind, but why can't

29:10

I try it? Why can't I be that

29:12

if I'm living from a place of goodness

29:15

and kindness and

29:17

self-reflection and awareness? Why

29:20

are we limiting ourselves? It makes no sense to me.

29:25

Okay, one of my favorite things because

29:28

the book is very

29:30

much about women and their relationship to

29:35

sex, we got our

29:37

North American hang ups, but especially

29:40

I do think that that is

29:42

so well illustrated in how

29:44

we teach sex

29:46

education in our schools. So

29:49

I always ask people, you'd like to think

29:51

that it isn't still a gym

29:54

teacher teaching, but

29:56

it actually is and it's worse than ever

29:58

and now, you know, people are cutting

30:00

their sex ed curricula and

30:03

people know nothing about their

30:05

bodies. The knowledge of

30:07

your body is very esoteric and especially

30:09

in American schools in the education system.

30:11

What would your dream sex ed

30:14

look like? Like if you were inventing

30:17

it out of whole cloth, what

30:19

would it look like? I like to dream about

30:21

what is possible. I mean, I'm

30:23

probably the wrong person to ask because I'm like, you want to go there?

30:27

Listen, like, I mean,

30:29

well, you lived in Europe for a

30:31

long time. It's totally different there. It's

30:33

like totally different. Like reading about sex

30:35

education in the Netherlands, you're like, what?

30:37

You talk about pleasure? Yeah, I

30:40

think the first thing would be like, here's

30:43

the anatomy of a female body. Sure. Let's

30:45

talk about that first and all the different

30:47

parts of the

30:49

female body. All the parts.

30:51

All the parts. There's so many parts.

30:53

And then also, I

30:55

think one of the things that's the

30:58

most sad to me is when

31:00

I talk to women and they

31:02

still think that there's like, there's

31:04

only one type of orgasm that always

31:06

kind of shocks me. And so

31:09

I feel like in my dream

31:11

scenario in sex ed, it would be there's

31:13

a million different ways for your body to

31:15

experience pleasure. Here's a few. So you at

31:17

least have like a starting off point to

31:19

know it's not just like a

31:22

little like rub and you're done. Just like in

31:24

a porno. You just slap it a few times.

31:29

It's easy. There's a lot of different ways.

31:31

And I think a huge

31:33

part of the sex ed thing that

31:35

I would talk about is it's actually

31:38

so easy for your body to

31:40

experience pleasure if you feel safe.

31:43

Because that's something that I have always run

31:45

into in my life, which is being

31:48

someone who has been very lucky

31:50

to have had many different types

31:53

of experiences throughout my life.

31:56

If I don't feel safe, my body shuts

31:58

down and I then. when I

32:00

was younger would internalize it as what's wrong with me

32:03

and why can't I be a certain way

32:05

and why am I not feeling a certain thing and why

32:07

is my body not reacting a certain way instead

32:09

of going, oh, this isn't a

32:11

safe experience for whatever reason. And

32:15

I can't actually, there is no access

32:17

to pleasure because the road to pleasure

32:19

has been stolen by the head

32:22

and the thoughts and the awareness of the

32:24

experience instead of just being present in it.

32:26

I can only be present in that

32:29

type of intimacy if there

32:31

is a ground of safety. And

32:33

we're not taught that. It's like, here's a

32:36

condom, here's how it works, have fun. So

32:38

much of it is still so oriented

32:40

about sort of the male anatomy.

32:43

And it's not just for women.

32:46

I think that if men

32:48

knew what was possible, which

32:50

young boys just don't because there

32:52

isn't any education around it, if

32:55

everyone knew what was possible physically

32:57

and emotionally and

33:00

the beauty that can come

33:02

from pleasure, that's like an emotional beauty,

33:04

I think that

33:06

people would be more interested to,

33:10

I kind of look at sexual energy as

33:12

the serpent that's like goes through the, and

33:14

I've had, I have

33:17

experiences with some very kind of traumatic

33:19

things sexually. And so I think

33:22

of it a lot as like the serpent that

33:24

sort of goes into people and uses our bodies

33:27

energetically. And we're sort of these zombies

33:29

walking around going, I really want to connect and I don't know

33:31

how, and I'm supposed to do this, I'm supposed to do that.

33:33

And there's all this awareness and, okay,

33:35

now it's done. And I'm going to shove

33:37

that aside and compartmentalize and go back to

33:39

my life. But then there's still this energy

33:41

running through us. And until we're aware of

33:43

that, I feel like it

33:46

kind of runs us instead of us running it.

33:49

And that's something I would do in

33:51

sex ed. We're all just looking for

33:54

intimacy. There's nothing better than true intimacy,

33:56

which is not necessarily always, which is

33:58

not like always sexual in nature. like

34:00

the intimacy of like a touch and

34:02

a connection and eye

34:04

contact and an understanding between

34:07

two people. We'll

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miss their new episodes. Do

36:56

you think with intimacy, because

36:58

I've been thinking a lot about this recently,

37:00

like what to me makes intimacy intimacy. And

37:02

I, I've come to the conclusion

37:04

that it's just pure honesty. Like if

37:06

someone's honest with me and they show me who they

37:09

really are and how they really feel, whether

37:11

it's a negative or a positive thing, that's

37:14

intimate. What do you think? Oh,

37:17

it's very intimate. And there's also, you

37:20

know, there's something about the intimacy

37:23

with a partner, like I've been married for a

37:25

long, long time, 23 years or something like that.

37:27

And there's

37:31

safety in it. And there's

37:33

something about there's

37:35

like a fluidity between myself

37:38

and Jason, like we,

37:41

when one person is feeling strong, the

37:43

they are supporting the other person, when

37:45

one person is feeling weak, they look

37:47

to the other partner, sometimes we're at

37:49

the same level of strength and

37:52

weakness. And sometimes one of us needs more support.

37:54

And then we fall back and then the other

37:56

one needs more support. And then we're at the

37:58

same level of strength and weakness. And And that

38:00

creates a sense of total safety

38:02

because we can truly be, we

38:05

are just like truly openly

38:08

ourselves. And

38:11

that doesn't, that doesn't always look like,

38:13

like us caressing each other in the face

38:16

every morning, but we're always

38:18

connecting. And we connect through laughter,

38:20

like we connect because we think

38:22

we were really, each of

38:24

us is, we make each other laugh. It's

38:27

our best. It's huge. And it's

38:29

huge. It's really huge.

38:32

And so. Laughter is huge. It's

38:34

huge. Like, again, going back to

38:36

what you said earlier, you have

38:40

to have fun with your partner. You

38:42

have to be having fun. Otherwise, what

38:44

are we doing here? I know.

38:46

We can't, it can't always be fighting

38:49

and negotiating. If you're not having fun,

38:51

you're not meant to be together. It's

38:53

time to like, I

38:56

know that you feel like so many people. Is

38:59

it settle or compromise? I've never been in a relationship

39:01

longer than two years. And sometimes I look at myself

39:04

and I'm like, am I scared of intimacy? And I

39:06

don't think that's what it is. I think I just

39:08

haven't found the person that, you

39:10

know, we do the 23 year

39:12

thing together with yet. Yeah. Yeah.

39:16

I have so many friends and people I

39:18

respect who are in relationships where they're like,

39:21

well, you know, it's this and

39:24

this and this and this and this

39:26

aren't fulfilling, but there's the kids and

39:28

there's the house and there's the responsibilities.

39:30

And I look at them and I'm

39:32

like, you are so beautiful as a

39:35

human being. Why are you doing this

39:37

to each other? Because you're, you're not

39:39

bringing out the highest best. And

39:42

it's, I think that's also endemic in our

39:44

culture, which is like, it is, you're supposed

39:46

to be additive. Like a person

39:48

should be additive to your life. You

39:50

need to be additive to another person.

39:52

And sometimes that, that means you're actually

39:54

doing something that you don't feel like

39:57

doing today, like, I don't know, doing

39:59

the high intensity composting. Yeah, whatever. But

40:01

you know what I mean? But there's

40:03

a give and take like everybody has

40:05

to just like, sometimes you're just pitching

40:07

in, because it's a team. But

40:09

most of the time, you're pitching in because

40:12

you love each other. And you're like, building

40:15

something together. But it's about being

40:17

additive. And I think like if

40:19

a relationship subtracts too much from

40:21

you, I don't

40:23

know, man, it's gonna be pretty hard

40:25

to ride the crest of menopause with

40:28

someone who, who doesn't

40:30

have your back. That you'll get

40:32

into your fifties and be like, I

40:35

don't do this anymore. Now

40:37

I live for me. So

40:39

like, you, you know, you're gonna

40:42

end up going into these like, big

40:44

things together later in life.

40:47

And if you're really not balanced, it's

40:50

probably not going to work out. And that could be a very

40:52

good thing. Sometimes it is better

40:54

to have your cats.

40:57

Listen, I can I tell you something, this is

40:59

just such a sidetrack. But my son has a

41:01

cat sitting job right now. Oh

41:03

my god. Oh my god. He's

41:05

so cute. He's 16. He has a cat sitting

41:07

job. It's adorable. And one of

41:09

the cats I swear to God, I swear

41:11

to Jesus Christ, is a man

41:14

trapped in a cat's body. It's like

41:16

this cat is like, was

41:19

turned into a cat by a witch's curse.

41:21

It gets like he has the face of a man

41:24

in a cat.

41:26

I wish I had a picture of his face. It's

41:28

just like you're like, what? I'm

41:30

obsessed with cats. I

41:34

have to okay. Oh,

41:36

me too. Oh, they're just Oh

41:38

my god, they make no

41:41

sense. I'm like, bro, you were

41:43

so chill. And now you just did seven

41:45

cartwheels in a row jumped eight and a

41:48

half feet in the air, tapped the ceiling,

41:50

ran around the room and now you're laying

41:52

down again. What the fuck

41:54

just went through your head? Explain what

41:56

happened. First

42:01

of all, you have to send us pictures of your

42:03

cats. I will send you a picture of I

42:06

love cats so much that

42:08

when like JD Vance is like childless cat

42:10

ladies, I'm like, childless cat lady,

42:12

bring me I could easily

42:15

live in a house with 40 cats. I

42:17

know. It's funny. Every time I meet

42:19

someone who's not a cat person, I'm like, why are you

42:22

not a cat person? I have a really bad idea about

42:24

my cats. But I was like, why are you not a

42:26

cat person? And they're like, well, they're too moody. They run

42:28

away. I'm like, my cats are

42:30

the ultimate snugglers. They like I wake up.

42:32

One is here and one is here. And

42:34

they're just Oh, yeah, they're all up in

42:36

me all the time. There's nothing more sensual

42:39

than a feline like these creatures know

42:41

how to be in their bodies. And

42:44

you're not kidding. I also feel like

42:46

they're fierce protectors like I. Yes,

42:50

they have emotional intelligence.

42:53

They have discernment. They

42:56

have choices. They make choices. And sometimes you

42:58

don't like their choices. You got to live

43:00

with it. I have a guy

43:03

spend the night who I had just kind of like,

43:05

you know, we were like sort of casually dating. Yeah.

43:08

And he stayed at my house for the first time.

43:11

And I woke up in the middle of the night and I was like, my

43:14

cat was like rustling in the bed. And

43:16

I and he's not a cat person. And I was like, is it okay

43:19

if I sleep? And

43:21

I reached over to collect my cat and

43:23

the bed was wet. And I was like,

43:25

did this dude just like the bed, my

43:28

frickin cat. Oh my

43:31

God. I

43:37

mean, I was mortified obviously because I also didn't

43:40

really know this person. I

43:43

picked my cat out outside and I woke up up and

43:45

I was like, I'm so sorry. My cat peed on the blankets.

43:47

Like I have to change the comforter. And

43:50

he was like, it's fine. She was locked

43:52

in. She didn't have her like, what a nice

43:54

man. This man was and he handled it with

43:56

so much grace. But

43:58

I woke up the next day. I was like, wow,

44:01

you were not quiet about your opinions

44:03

on this dude. You were

44:06

very discerning in that choice.

44:08

Strong opinions. Strong. That's such

44:10

a strong statement. Cats never

44:12

make a half statement. No,

44:14

and I love it. I'm

44:17

like, again, the performing thing,

44:19

they do not perform, they just are. They're

44:22

like, this is how I feel and it shall

44:24

be known. Okay, I want to talk just a

44:26

bit about your, because you're

44:28

so interested, so engaged with,

44:32

well, I'm going to say activism on climate

44:34

change. I have to say

44:36

it, but like, you're so, you're active.

44:38

I mean, you're just so active and

44:40

you have really focused your energy on

44:43

the oceans. Like what draws you to

44:45

the, okay, because I saw Hope in

44:47

the Water in which you do an

44:50

episode about the changing California coast and

44:52

I learned so much. So can you

44:54

describe, why is it so

44:57

important to promote eating

45:00

less popular seafood? I

45:03

don't think people don't really know that. Yeah,

45:06

I didn't know it. I knew it in

45:08

theory, but I learned a lot during the

45:10

show. It's easy to be apathetic

45:14

towards something that's not in our face

45:16

constantly. I remember growing up, it was

45:19

like, you'd see the billboards everywhere

45:21

and you're not going to care about cancer until someone

45:23

in your family gets cancer and then you're going to

45:25

care about cancer. And then you're like, that was sort

45:27

of the message I feel like I remember the most

45:29

when I was a kid. And

45:32

interestingly, now I feel like the message is like, you

45:34

have to care about the earth and you're not going

45:36

to care about it until it's on your front doorstep,

45:38

which is true. And yet the

45:41

sad thing is once it's on your front doorstep, it's

45:43

like on your front doorstep

45:45

and the flood and the fires and

45:47

the storms and

45:50

the climate refugees. It's

45:52

such a massive international

45:55

issue that we're contending

45:58

with. And as far as as

46:00

the fish go, overfishing is massive.

46:02

And I think people don't, I

46:05

didn't really realize to be

46:07

a fisherman in that way, not just

46:09

talking about the oceans, because to me

46:11

you can't talk about the environment or

46:14

the oceans without talking about humans, because

46:16

we're so intricately connected

46:18

and intrinsically connected. And

46:21

so many of these people

46:23

who are on these commercial fishing boats

46:25

going out to fish the tuna and

46:28

the salmon and all of these big, they call

46:31

them like the big five or whatever. A lot

46:33

of these people are trafficked.

46:35

A lot of these people are told like, here's

46:38

a job, we're going to send all this money

46:40

home to your family, give us your passport, and

46:42

then they never get their passports back. And then

46:44

they're stuck on these boats. And so

46:46

it's such a, to me, yes,

46:49

we should stop eating just these

46:52

few species of fish because, or

46:54

maybe reduce our desire to eat

46:56

just those because of the ramifications

46:58

on the sea, but also because

47:01

of the ramifications on humanity. And

47:04

when you, when you start, when I

47:06

started opening my eyes to like, oh, what

47:08

would it be like to buy the oysters

47:10

or the mussels or the clams or this

47:12

weird fish I've never heard of when I

47:14

go to the butcher

47:17

area or the fishmonger at the

47:19

grocery store, it

47:21

also stopped eating just these few

47:23

species of fish because, or maybe

47:26

reduce our desire to eat just

47:28

those because of the ramifications on

47:30

the sea, but also because of

47:33

the ramifications on humanity. And

47:35

when you, when you start, when I

47:38

started opening my eyes to like, oh, what

47:40

would it be like to buy the oysters

47:42

or the mussels or the clams or this

47:44

weird fish I've never heard of when I

47:46

go to the butcher

47:48

area or the fishmonger at the

47:50

grocery store. It

47:53

also, like that is including a

47:55

new cycle of sustainability that includes

47:57

the emotional wellbeing and physical. well-being

48:00

of humans as well. And

48:02

more that we make lifestyle

48:05

choices that encourage the

48:07

financial capitalistic

48:10

side of our food systems,

48:13

that's going to influence the way

48:15

that these systems affect communities around

48:17

the world. And so it's a

48:19

really big conversation. And when I look at environmentalism

48:22

in general or conservation, it goes

48:24

back to how we started this

48:27

conversation, which is that we have

48:29

one life, man. And I have

48:32

a fierce, like there's like a mama bear

48:34

in me that just wants to protect people

48:37

and remind people that this

48:39

life can be beautiful. It doesn't only have

48:41

to be a life of suffering. It doesn't

48:43

only have to be a life of pain and

48:45

the rat race of trying to survive and

48:47

trying to make money just to pay the

48:49

bills, just to like make sure your kids

48:51

are okay. And the only way

48:53

that's going to change is if we all

48:55

decide to be a little bit more uncomfortable

48:57

and adjust our lifestyles a little bit, just

49:00

a tiny bit to include a broader

49:03

perspective that can affect the rest

49:05

of humanity. And it sounds maybe

49:07

idealistic and like a hippie

49:09

thing to say, but it's just true. And

49:11

no one, I feel

49:13

like very few people actually want to participate because

49:15

it feels so large, but

49:17

the small decision of choosing

49:20

a different fish at a supermarket

49:22

actually can make a difference. It's

49:25

so misunderstood or just like not

49:27

conceived of is just like our

49:30

food systems and

49:33

also fashion. Fashion

49:35

is another, is a huge area

49:38

in which we all really play a

49:40

very deep part and can make change

49:44

incrementally, definitely over time, but incrementally

49:46

through with our pocketbook and the

49:49

choices that we make. Like

49:51

if we turn away from

49:54

unsustainable eating, unsustainable shopping,

49:57

unsustainable fashion choices.

50:00

It could help. It could

50:02

incite something. It could cause

50:04

you to have a consciousness about

50:07

things. Well, it's just

50:09

it's interesting to me. Like I've thought a

50:11

lot about why these systems are so strong.

50:13

And we kind of live in this culture

50:15

that says like, don't really

50:17

don't think for yourself. Don't have your

50:19

own forget opinions. Like definitely don't have

50:21

your own opinions, but don't express yourself

50:24

as a version of you. And if you're going

50:26

to express yourself for who you are, the only

50:29

way to do that is through fashion, makeup.

50:33

Like it's so physical. Right.

50:35

And that informs the

50:37

choices that we make with fashion, with

50:39

food, whatever. Instead of

50:42

valuing, what is your, how

50:44

does your heart see the world? And how does,

50:46

like what makes you tick? What makes you

50:49

feel alive? What is your light? Oh

50:51

my God, you're pursuing your passions. I'm

50:53

going to celebrate that because I'm

50:55

not here to be attached

50:57

to you and need anything from you. I'm here to

50:59

be devotional to you. I'm here to like devote

51:02

myself to your wellbeing. But

51:06

your wellbeing should be like the way

51:08

that you feel and the way that

51:10

everything, like when you walk into a

51:12

room, what is the energy you're bringing

51:14

instead of what do you look like?

51:17

And what do you sound like? I

51:19

think if we were able to shift

51:21

importance from the identity of

51:23

a physical perspective to the identity of

51:25

like an emotional, mental, spiritual

51:28

perspective, man, I think

51:30

all of those institutions, all these institutions

51:32

that are really kind of plaguing our

51:35

planet right now environmentally would change very

51:37

quickly. If we all could just agree

51:39

on a single jeans silhouette for the

51:41

rest of time, we'd

51:44

save so much money. We

51:46

would save so much water. And so much

51:48

stress. Too

51:50

much stress. Oh my God,

51:52

this was so much fun

51:55

talking to you. I adore talking

51:57

to you. are

52:00

gonna love three women. I mean,

52:02

like we've been waiting for this. So

52:04

we are ready. I

52:06

hope so. I just hope people see it. You know,

52:08

to me, like three women is, it

52:12

is a show that that just

52:15

sees us. I feel

52:17

like it really sees us. And, and

52:20

there is not one piece of the show that I

52:23

think not everyone will find a

52:25

point of relation to. For me, it's very

52:27

healing. So I wonder if it will be

52:29

healing for others. I love

52:31

it. Well, thank you so much. This was

52:33

so fun. What a delight. So much fun.

52:41

That was Shailene Woodley. And I had no

52:43

choice but to look up one thing. She

52:46

mentioned the big five fish that make up

52:48

the majority of the fish we eat. I

52:50

could name the first few, but I had to check the

52:52

rest and it's cod, haddock,

52:55

salmon, tuna, and shrimp.

52:58

And yes, it is definitely important

53:00

for us to start trying other

53:02

fish to give the

53:04

big five time to repopulate. Thank

53:07

you so much for joining us. I'm Samantha

53:09

Bee. See you next week for some more

53:11

choice words. Thank

53:25

you for listening to Choice Words, which was

53:27

created by and is hosted by me. The

53:30

show is produced by Zia Baron-Reinstein with

53:32

editing and additional producing by Josh Richmond.

53:35

We're distributed by Lemon Automedia and you

53:37

can find me at real Sam Bee

53:39

on X and Instagram. Follow Choice Words

53:42

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53:44

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55:07

Hi, everyone, Gloria Riviera here, and we

55:09

are back for another season of No

55:12

One Is Coming To Save Us, a

55:14

podcast about America's childcare crisis. This

55:16

season, we're delving deep into five critical

55:19

issues facing our country through the lens

55:21

of childcare, poverty, mental

55:23

health, housing,