40:00

and you're not, that's the nicest two things anyone can

40:02

say about you. Like, for real though, you don't seem,

40:04

you're not, it's not uneasy.

40:07

Great. Yeah. Is it, from your

40:09

point of view, what's it like? Like this interview right

40:11

now? Yes, but

40:14

more like what your experience is with

40:16

interacting with people. It's actually,

40:18

it's okay, it's fine. Like,

40:20

I'm not agoraphobic. So

40:23

what's the anxiety? I'm fine with pitches. Where's the anxiety come up?

40:26

The anxiety is kind of just a

40:28

constant like pulse

40:31

in my brain that it's not really

40:33

related to social interaction. The thing I was stressed

40:35

out about at SNL was

40:38

not, it was a

40:40

little bit talking to people and

40:43

talking to experienced, you know, crew

40:45

members who rightfully hated

40:47

my sketch or whatever. It was a little

40:49

bit that, of course. It was a little

40:51

bit, you know, holy shit, that's Paul McCartney.

40:53

I'm afraid of Paul McCartney. Yeah,

40:56

what you would expect. But most

40:59

of it was- He was in wing. Yeah, he was in fucking

41:01

wing. Yeah, most of it

41:03

was that, most of it was

41:05

like, I don't have any control over

41:07

whether or not people are gonna like my sketch.

41:10

Yeah. It was the fear of the

41:12

mob. So was it like a weird guilt, fear

41:14

thing? It was just like fear of failure. You

41:18

have a fear of mobs here.

41:21

Yeah. Social media mobs. Mobs

41:23

in general, but yes. Now the question

41:25

is- Yeah. I'm terrified

41:27

of that crowd. What

41:29

crowd? The SNL, you know,

41:31

when they would walk in- Oh, the 300

41:33

people of whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

41:37

But they're all just like excited teenage girls. At

41:39

dress they're excited, they excited

41:42

teenage daughters of executives. Yes.

41:44

And at air they're

41:47

even more excited tourists from

41:49

Chicago. Yeah. So they're

41:51

harmless. Yeah. Didn't make a

41:53

difference. Yeah. And were they, did you see

41:55

them as discerning? Or you

41:57

just didn't want to bomb? Fear of-

42:00

The bombing was, I mean.

42:02

I will say as a comedian, writing

42:05

a sketch, producing it

42:07

for three days, mounting it, and

42:10

unveiling it to an audience is

42:13

pretty laborious. It's a

42:15

laborious way to eat shit. Yeah. All

42:18

right, if you're gonna eat shit, Just say it. Just

42:21

scoop it out of the toilet. Don't spend three

42:23

days delicately slicing the shit. Yeah,

42:25

seasoning it, yes. Putting

42:28

it in a little. Getting it just right.

42:30

Yeah, right, like the bear. And then you're

42:32

just like, okay. And then it's just, boosh.

42:34

Yeah, but what I'm saying is, I understand.

42:36

And it is like, I guess it's expensive.

42:40

If you're gonna write a sketch that eats

42:42

shit and it costs 70 grand. Right. With

42:45

in wood and paint. Sure. And

42:48

cost. Yeah. Was it, did

42:51

you ever picture them going like,

42:53

there he is, like how bad

42:55

would the nightmare

42:57

scenario be? Well,

43:00

I still have the nightmare

43:03

scenario in my nightmares. Like I still have

43:05

the literal SNL nightmare. Do you have? I've

43:08

ever heard this. I've

43:10

worked at SNL three weeks in my entire life.

43:13

Yeah. Pretty much since the

43:15

early 2000s, even before the special. Every

43:18

night I've had a stress dream about SNL. I'm

43:21

not kidding. Wait a minute, really? Like I have four or five

43:23

nights a week. It will

43:25

be, I'm at SNL, I'm

43:27

either on the eighth floor, 17th floor, I'm

43:31

somewhere with Seth, Wig,

43:35

Bill, Will

43:37

Ferrell, Lauren's

43:40

pretty much every dream I have

43:42

is Lauren's mad at me. Same. Usually

43:45

he's mad at me because- And

43:48

by the way, Lauren has, I think likes me.

43:50

I barely know him, we've gotten along. He doesn't

43:52

get mad very often. He's a very even keel

43:55

person. Yeah, it's usually Lauren is

43:58

mad. And

44:00

also I'm supposed to be on camera or

44:02

I was supposed to go on camera and

44:04

do something and I forgot. So in my

44:06

nightmares, I'm often being thrust onto the SNL

44:08

stage. And sometimes- Did

44:11

you ever do like a Q and

44:13

A in the monologue? Did you ever

44:15

do like an audience member? They

44:18

would use me as an extra sometime because I

44:20

was so unusual looking. So I would often play

44:22

like, you know, the kid or the

44:25

cashier when they needed like a teenage extra, they

44:29

would use me- Right. Using

44:31

an adult. Yeah. Exactly. Those

44:33

were very frightening experiences. I mean, whenever

44:36

I had to be like in the extra, like in the

44:38

background of a sketch, it felt very

44:40

similar to, I don't really have like a

44:42

big fear of heights, but it felt

44:45

like standing on the edge of like a 300

44:48

foot tall cliff with like wind. Yeah.

44:52

Just like being told like, okay, like, we're not even gonna pay you

44:54

the $173 that an extra gets. Yeah.

44:58

I mean, who has the favor for three minutes, just

45:01

like stand on the mouth

45:03

of this cliff. And

45:05

don't, you don't have to say anything or do anything, just sort

45:07

of stay there for three and

45:09

a half minutes. Seth wrote this mouth of a cliff.

45:11

Yeah, right. And you just stand on it. Yeah, they

45:13

need a person to stand on it. And there's gonna

45:15

be like screaming winds coming

45:18

by you. I mean, you're

45:20

not wrong. Yeah. The

45:22

difference is some

45:25

of us like it. Meaning

45:27

like I don't not get nervous when I

45:29

do a stand up. I

45:34

get nervous every time. But I

45:36

like, there's a, I said some

45:38

friend of mine where if

45:40

you have suicidal thoughts and they go, did

45:43

you have a, did you make a plan? Did you

45:45

make a suicidal plan? And I go, yeah,

45:47

I decided to do stand up. It's

45:49

there's something suicidal about it where like you just go,

45:52

I don't really care.

45:54

Like I'm terrified, but like the reward

45:57

is worth it. Yes. And

45:59

for you, there's no reward. Right. I mean, it is ironic

46:01

that for somebody with like a fear of

46:03

mobs, that I went into an industry

46:07

in which my success

46:09

is directly tied to my ability to appease

46:11

those mobs. To do the mob. Yeah. Right.

46:14

But from afar at least, and

46:16

through actors and through pieces

46:18

of paper. Surrogates. Yeah. There's this distance

46:20

and through fictional characters. Yeah. You know,

46:23

so many of my short stories are

46:25

written in the first person. So they're

46:27

from the point of view

46:29

of a character that sounds

46:32

nothing like me. You know? Is your beef

46:35

with yourself that you're average or

46:38

that you're wretched?

46:41

What do you think? I mean, sort of-

46:43

What's the mob gonna, what's their charge against

46:45

you? Well, I think boring would be high

46:47

on the list. I mean, you know, like,

46:49

I don't think there's anything interesting. Like, I

46:52

wouldn't want to read a story

46:55

about myself. I wouldn't want to- Like,

46:58

I- But you like, again, but I guess what

47:00

I'm getting at is Seinfeld has an observation of

47:02

like comedians with low self-esteem and he's like, oh

47:05

yeah, and you're charging people to hear you talk. So

47:08

with you, it's like, you

47:11

must think there's something redeeming about yourself

47:13

if you're willing to publish

47:16

books and sell them. Well,

47:18

yeah, I love, I mean, I'm very proud of

47:20

it. No, no, no. I'm not your part of

47:22

it. Yeah, yeah. Not just like you

47:24

want to do this. Yeah. You must think you have

47:27

merit in some way. Well, I'm proud

47:29

of the stories, but it's a separate thing.

47:31

As a writer of fiction, it's

47:34

like that you're not asking the person to

47:36

get on board. I know it's like- No,

47:39

no, no. I know what you mean. It's like you're not

47:41

asking the person to get on board with you. You're asking

47:44

them to get on board with your main character, who

47:47

probably, or at least if you're me, is

47:49

nothing like you and is way more interesting

47:51

and exciting and fun to hear from. I

47:53

mean, my audio book for Glory

47:58

Days is very grateful. that I've

48:00

been racially read by Malaney. That's a much

48:02

better way, I think, for people

48:04

to encounter my work than, for example, me

48:07

reading it. So it's,

48:10

I've long, even in high school, even

48:12

when I was in high school, and

48:15

writing plays and sketches, I

48:17

would put my friends in it. I wouldn't be in

48:19

them, because I knew they would do a better job.

48:21

So you see it as like, which

48:24

is a true and relatable thing. It's

48:26

not even, you serve the

48:29

idea. You're a vessel for the

48:31

idea. Totally, yeah, yeah. I would never, like,

48:33

okay, I guess I could write a, I

48:36

could write a memoir from the perspective of

48:38

like a 40

48:41

year old, borderline charming Jewish

48:43

comedy writer, you know? Or

48:47

I could write like a story from

48:49

the perspective of Paul Revere's horse. Like

48:52

I'd much rather do. Here's a

48:54

very broad question. Much rather do the latter.

48:56

What do you think makes a likable person?

48:59

Person? Yeah, or character? They're

49:02

different things. I feel like they're,

49:05

they're, yeah. Okay, let me

49:07

get more specific. What do you think is

49:09

the, your

49:11

best idea for a thing

49:14

to make a character likable?

49:16

Well, it's just a, yeah.

49:18

Because like, go over his horse. Yeah. I

49:20

like him already. I know, well, he's an underdog. Yeah,

49:23

he's like being written around, he's kind of

49:25

a hero. He works

49:27

late, et cetera. That story is basically he

49:29

and Paul are friends. They-

49:32

He speaks or it's telepathic? He's telling

49:34

the story. It's unclear how he's communicating

49:37

with Paul. One of many

49:40

withheld details that you'll find in my story. But

49:42

he's friends with Paul and it's his memoir. So

49:44

you kind of have to take everything that this

49:46

horse is saying with a grain of salt. But

49:49

he and Paul, they

49:52

make this plan to tell, tell

49:55

people that the British are coming. And they

49:58

sort of will go in on this idea together.

50:00

I'll ride there, you know, because I'm a horse,

50:02

you know, on my back. And

50:04

because you can speak, you'll say, you

50:06

know, the British are coming into sort of 50-50 partnership.

50:08

Yeah, and it wouldn't be good for him. This

50:10

be the first night he speaks. That'd be strange.

50:12

The horse speaks. Exactly. It's too much

50:15

at once. Yeah, so we'll just. Hat on a hat. Totally.

50:17

So we'll do this thing together and they do

50:19

it. And then Paul Revere kind of gets all

50:21

the credit. Yeah. The horse is sort of

50:25

forgotten. Yeah. So it's

50:27

this very bitter, like

50:30

celebrity, bitchy memoir from the

50:32

horse. Just

50:34

kind of describing how it all changed. But

50:36

you know what I'm asking? The thing of

50:38

like, what do you think makes

50:41

a car... Obviously, horses is

50:43

almost, is too obvious. Sure.

50:46

But there are. Not

50:48

too obvious for me. No. I'm

50:51

saying, what do you think makes a character?

50:53

What are your favorite things that you've done

50:55

that make a character likeable? Well.

50:58

This is an odd question, but I can't do it again. There's

51:00

a few things. I'll tell you all my tricks. The first thing

51:02

is I like it when a

51:05

character is extremely stupid. Okay.

51:08

Or naive or misinformed. Okay.

51:11

It could be. But earnest. Very

51:13

deeply earnest. Yeah. Deeply

51:17

convinced of whatever

51:19

it is they think they know. Yeah,

51:24

that's why I write so often from the perspective of

51:26

people who can't even speak English fluently. It's

51:29

often like I have a story called Unprotected,

51:31

which is about

51:33

a teenage boy trying to lose his

51:35

virginity. And it's told entirely from the

51:38

perspective of the condom in his wallet,

51:41

which is waiting for years and years and years

51:43

and years to be used. Great.

51:46

And the condom is not particularly

51:48

articulate because he's the piece of

51:50

polyurethane. Yeah. And

51:52

so I love to write about, I love to write from the

51:54

perspective of characters that no less than the

51:57

reader. I just think that readers have

51:59

a. sympathy for

52:02

people that are dumber than they

52:04

are. I watched a fair

52:06

amount of man seeking woman. Yeah.

52:09

Jay's, Jay Barichel's character, I

52:13

don't remember what you did to make him, there's

52:16

a thing in screenwriting called like save the cat, which

52:18

is like in the first 10 pages, have

52:21

the protagonist like do

52:23

something benevolent, like save a cat from a tree.

52:25

Sure. Right? Yeah. What

52:29

you did with Barichel? Well, in the very

52:31

first episode, his

52:35

ex-girlfriend dumps him and then he finds

52:37

out that she's dating

52:39

this older,

52:41

like rich guy. Yeah. And

52:44

he's like really upset, especially

52:46

when he meets him and finds out that it's

52:49

literally Adolf Hitler, who is 137

52:51

years old, played perfectly by Bill Hader. And

52:56

my Erskine is his ex-girlfriend

52:59

and she introduces him to Adolf and Jay

53:02

meets Bill in his motorized

53:04

wheelchair. All right, Adolf

53:07

Hitler. Josh

53:10

Greenberg. Greenberg? Yes.

53:12

Uh-oh. Just

53:15

doesn't really like this Hitler guy and thinks it's weird

53:17

they're dating and all of his friends

53:19

are- That weirdly does make Jay likable. Yeah, and

53:21

all his friends are just like, you just don't

53:23

like him because he's dating Maggie. And

53:26

also like, this is like his party. He

53:28

paid for all those food and said, maybe just

53:31

relax. And ends with him having to apologize

53:35

after an uncouth outburst, he has to apologize to

53:37

Hitler. Hitler of course is so

53:40

deaf because he's, you know, the oldest

53:42

man alive that he has

53:44

to repeat his apology much louder and then

53:46

louder a third time. So

53:49

by the end of that

53:51

episode- Relatable humiliation or isolation.

53:53

Yeah, absolutely. And then

53:55

I would say, but

53:57

yeah, if you want to get into the boring mechanics of-

54:00

If that's, I mean, basically you just need the

54:02

character to really want something and you need the

54:04

audience or readers to want the character to get

54:06

it. What do you think makes a person in

54:09

life likable? Oh, that could be any number of

54:11

things. And I like a lot of people that

54:13

I would say would make terrible protagonists. Yeah. Well,

54:15

yeah, so you have more of a- I like people who

54:17

I think you might classify as

54:20

antagonists. Yeah, well, that's what I

54:22

mean. Like, there's something satisfying about,

54:24

like, our friend, the

54:26

asshole. I love it. And like, oh, we're

54:28

gonna do asshole now. That's great. Yeah. But

54:31

you won't find them narrating my stories.

54:34

Great. Look for them on the street. One

54:39

of your blocks is that you're 40

54:41

years old and

54:43

you've been the, you're generally the smallest. Yes.

54:47

I think physical ability

54:49

or is an underrated liability.

54:54

Meaning, meaning it's like women always talk about

54:56

how they're smaller than, and it's like, I'm

54:59

150 pounds, I'm not walking

55:01

around. You're less than 150 pounds.

55:06

You're not walking around dominating situations

55:08

and how it affects you. Yes,

55:11

it was a much more extreme thing when I was

55:13

growing up. I

55:15

think this is where my fear of mobs comes

55:17

from. Huh? Is basically, because I

55:20

was- Adults are terrifying when you're a kid, by

55:22

the way. And then when you're a little, when

55:24

you're a small kid, even more

55:26

so. Yes. I went to the

55:28

same school for many years so that it

55:30

wasn't really, being by far the smallest kid

55:32

in my grade was not

55:34

really a day-to-day issue because everybody was

55:37

used to me. Right. And

55:39

they knew what I looked like and it was

55:41

always a surprise coming back from summer that

55:43

everybody had grown even more. You know? Not

55:46

me. But so that was always like

55:49

a tough day. But other than that, it was-

55:51

Too small, is your mom small? Both

55:53

sides of the family are extremely small. Got it.

55:57

Runs on both sides. women

56:00

in my family who are sub five foot. But

56:03

I was small even by the standards of my

56:05

family. I was tested for dwarfism. They

56:08

x-rayed my bones and they

56:10

told me like, it's gonna be fine, you're gonna someday-

56:13

And they called you dwarf the whole time, right? In

56:15

the top three, dwarf, walk over here

56:17

dwarf. Yeah, right, they had a carnival barker up

56:19

front and it's like, this is for a pediatrician.

56:21

This is a bit much. Guys, this is not

56:23

professional, yeah. But it was fun, it was a

56:25

good, nice music. Yeah, you meant

56:28

some cool carnival. Yeah, exactly. And

56:30

yeah, and what did that inform? Well,

56:32

so yeah, it didn't affect my day-to-day, but

56:35

it was a big deal whenever I encountered

56:37

new kids. So if our

56:39

school, for example, had to play another school

56:41

in sports, or if there was like a

56:43

dance, God forbid, in middle school

56:45

with like another school, or the first day

56:48

of a new Hebrew

56:50

school or camp was

56:53

always, I mean, basically

56:55

like a full, like a

56:58

full PT Barnum situation, where

57:00

like when people saw me,

57:02

it was like, it was

57:05

an absolute circus-like atmosphere. That

57:08

was like four, I looked like four to

57:10

six years younger than everybody. Yeah. And

57:13

so, and yeah, like an

57:15

MC, like a ringmaster would

57:19

like emerge typically, usually like a tall, like lapped

57:21

kid. You're like, look at him. Look at him.

57:23

And then a crowd would gather and they would

57:25

always like bring forth like their own short kid

57:28

to see, to measure us back to

57:30

back, to see who was shorter. And

57:32

I would always be shorter even than their

57:34

champion. And

57:38

me and the other short kid would kind of

57:40

like exchange like a

57:42

weary, like, it's a

57:44

living. Yep. And

57:47

so those are bad days. And

57:49

so that sort of punctuated

57:51

my child. Were you verbally

57:53

funny back then? Yeah.

57:57

So you could like. But there wasn't time when you're.

57:59

No. But yeah, it's all happened coming at you. When

58:01

it's like a three ring circus, you don't have time

58:03

to be like, hey, do

58:05

you guys, you know what would be really funny

58:07

if like in school lunches, if instead, you know,

58:09

can't really get into your material. You're

58:12

like too busy like being like measured

58:15

by a ringmaster. And

58:18

so as a result from an early age, I

58:21

really feared and

58:23

disliked crowds. And I

58:25

think I was like

58:27

probably all, probably like

58:29

you and every other comedy writer from our generation,

58:32

hugely obsessed with The Simpsons. My

58:34

favorite character on The Simpsons was

58:37

not an individual character. It

58:39

was the collective character of the mob,

58:43

which made me laugh so

58:45

hard. And it's the mob, the

58:47

crowd of the Springfield mob

58:49

on Simpsons is depicted as even stupider

58:53

than her. Yeah, I think correctly so. The

58:55

dumbest character on the show. I always feel

58:57

like groundskeeper, what's his

58:59

name? And the guy from the

59:01

bar would be like the

59:04

featured speakers in the mob. Well, yeah,

59:06

and Moe is often. Yeah, Moe was

59:08

like toward the front. Yeah, right, exactly.

59:11

Shouting the most inane thing you've ever

59:13

heard and everybody screams and breaks

59:15

glass over their head. And also

59:17

like, yeah, and Moe

59:19

is a character who is on

59:22

The Simpsons while of course, dumb

59:25

in many ways as all characters on that

59:27

show are, you wouldn't call him necessarily the

59:29

dumb one. I mean, Homer is the dumb.

59:32

But when Moe is inside that

59:34

mob, he becomes consumed

59:37

by idiocy. And anyone who is part of

59:39

the mob, walking with them,

59:41

their IQ just automatically drops like 75 points.

59:44

So that's all, when I think

59:46

about like a crowd of people,

59:51

I think of the Springfield mob. And I think of

59:54

being like physically measured on the first day

59:56

of every camp. I

59:58

think that is why I don't do the. And

1:04:00

so I'm very grateful at the same time, maybe

1:04:03

people would know about the books. So

1:04:06

that's sort of, that's kind of, I

1:04:09

often think of like the sliding doors, like

1:04:12

what would my life be like if I had

1:04:15

gone the sort of social media, internet

1:04:18

quips route? I would have fewer books,

1:04:20

but they wouldn't be as good. Your

1:04:23

advances will be bigger. Right, more people

1:04:25

would read them. Yes, it

1:04:28

would be a different life. Instead I've

1:04:30

written like 10 more obscure

1:04:32

books. And I'm

1:04:35

really excited about them, but I've made this

1:04:37

sort of deal where, very

1:04:41

few people know about them. I mean, again, you could say you're 24, no

1:04:43

one would question it. You could just change your

1:04:45

name. Go on social media tomorrow. Yeah, change your

1:04:48

name. Half

1:04:52

your shit would be great tweets anyway.

1:04:54

Yeah, just say, pretend that I'm coming up with

1:04:56

it now. Yeah, no one's got it. If you

1:04:58

think anyone's gonna look it up, you

1:05:01

think anyone's gonna do it, you're fucking out, you

1:05:03

really overestimate people. Go to their local library. Yeah,

1:05:05

yes. Okay, let's see. And

1:05:08

now you're, how long have you been married? Since

1:05:11

2015. And

1:05:14

how do you like, how long have

1:05:16

you been with your wife? We met

1:05:18

in college, split

1:05:20

up, got back together. Great. One of those, yeah.

1:05:22

Great, and how

1:05:26

do you like it? It's great, it's fantastic. She's a

1:05:28

writer too. Her name's Kathleen

1:05:30

Hale, and she writes incredibly

1:05:34

violent true crime nonfiction, which

1:05:38

is absolutely thrilling to read. She

1:05:40

wrote a book called Slender Man, which

1:05:43

was a finalist for the Edgar Prize. And

1:05:45

it's about those three 12 year olds in,

1:05:49

those two 12 year olds in Wisconsin

1:05:51

that stabbed that other 12 year old

1:05:53

to serve Slender Man, the internet demon.

1:05:56

It's an amazing idea. Is that lucrative for

1:05:58

her? I

1:06:01

mean, by the standards of Hollywood, I

1:06:03

mean, you know. Right, but I'm saying like, it seems like

1:06:05

that's a good business to be

1:06:08

in. It's, yeah, it's great. I mean,

1:06:10

it's incredible for anyone

1:06:12

to get paid to write, Yeah.

1:06:15

For, to write paper books, to

1:06:17

write for paper magazines. Yeah. Kathleen

1:06:22

and I both feel like super lucky, like she

1:06:25

writes for Vanity Fair, I write for

1:06:27

the New Yorker, paper magazines. That

1:06:29

people like physically holding their hands. There are

1:06:32

very few magazines left. What is the, do

1:06:34

you know the circulation of the New Yorker?

1:06:36

Is it down significantly on paper?

1:06:38

So it's over a million, but under

1:06:41

two million. I think it's low millions.

1:06:43

Vanity Fair is a little bit higher,

1:06:45

but only slightly. We're

1:06:47

talking paper. Paper. Got it.

1:06:49

And digital is what? I have to

1:06:51

tell a story. You have to hit it. I hope I don't get in

1:06:53

trouble for this. Please. So

1:06:55

this is a story I was told to me by somebody who works

1:06:58

at the New Yorker. And

1:07:01

I hope I don't get

1:07:03

in trouble with Conde Nast for real. It's

1:07:05

so funny though, I have to tell

1:07:07

it to you. So, he was visiting

1:07:09

a, he's on the business side. He's

1:07:12

visiting a call center and

1:07:16

that the Conde Nast call center. And it's

1:07:19

sort of the hub for all customer service.

1:07:21

Right. And the Conde Nast magazines

1:07:23

would be New Yorker, Vanity Fair. Vogue, a

1:07:26

few others. Anyway, so

1:07:28

whenever somebody calls with

1:07:30

an issue, like their magazine arrived late or

1:07:32

it arrived wet, you

1:07:36

rectify the issue. And then part of the script

1:07:38

is then you say, while you're on, can I

1:07:40

ask you to subscribe for another year? That's

1:07:43

just part of the call center script. Said

1:07:45

he was there for four calls, all

1:07:50

of them New Yorker subscribers. Each time they

1:07:52

said no, and the reason they gave was

1:07:54

always the same, which is, I think by

1:07:56

next year I'll be dead. Yeah.

1:08:01

So that's to say the subscription

1:08:03

base is a little bit

1:08:05

rocky right now. Yeah, it's up

1:08:07

against- Not what I would call it, growth industry,

1:08:09

yeah. And

1:08:12

do you have a parental

1:08:14

ethos? I think just

1:08:16

open-mindedness, yeah.

1:08:19

What's your goal for them? Because I've just

1:08:21

been, I'm dealing with the kid and

1:08:23

it's interesting to think

1:08:26

about it in a way I've never thought about

1:08:28

it, which is like, what am I going for

1:08:30

here? What are we trying to encourage? My goal

1:08:33

is to not have a goal. My

1:08:35

goal is to be decent of course, and

1:08:37

try to teach them how to read and shit. But

1:08:42

basically to not write a script

1:08:45

for them to, because

1:08:47

I'm such a goal-oriented person. I've

1:08:49

always been very regimented

1:08:52

and focused and I have

1:08:54

my goals, some of them

1:08:56

stupid, but they're still goals. And

1:08:59

I'm very determined not to treat

1:09:02

my children as if they

1:09:04

were projects or books. I

1:09:07

don't want to treat my kids like they're books. Where

1:09:09

I'm like, I'm excited, I'm gonna spend

1:09:11

years on this and it's going to turn out a certain way

1:09:13

and here's what people are gonna think of it and here's how

1:09:15

I want people to react to it. Okay,

1:09:18

that, I'm with you. What's

1:09:20

the, do you have any

1:09:22

goal for them? What do

1:09:24

you think is, it's the same question of what makes a

1:09:26

likable person? What is a,

1:09:28

what makes a successful human

1:09:31

project? I want them to be

1:09:33

confident, self-aware and

1:09:37

kind, polite, basically.

1:09:41

Comfortable in a mob, near a mob? Agnostic

1:09:45

about that, I mean, you

1:09:47

know. Yeah. Yeah, if it

1:09:49

really makes them happy to lead a mob, if

1:09:51

that's what it is, if they're just like, they

1:09:54

feel that brick in their hands. Like, I got a mob, yeah. Like,

1:09:56

this is my, you know, this is what I was

1:09:58

meant to be. Yeah. I would be like startled, but

1:10:01

I would say, you know what, like, I will

1:10:04

come and I will hold

1:10:06

a broken bottle behind you and we'll, you know, we'll

1:10:09

burn down that

1:10:11

religious structure together. Whatever it is.

1:10:13

Yeah. It was great talking to you. Great talking

1:10:15

to you. Thanks for having me. Great, great show.

1:10:18

Thanks. Ta-da. Thank

1:10:20

you. Everybody wants to

1:10:22

have, everybody wants to

1:10:24

have a friend. I'm

1:10:27

in. All

1:10:31

you happy dudes are open, open

1:10:34

up your hand, mommy.